Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.

996 replies

Cismyfatarse · 28/02/2021 18:29

As the conversation is interesting and the thread is nearly full. Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4153007-Does-it-matter-if-Sturgeon-is-guilty-do-you-know-or-care

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
kurtrussellsbeard · 01/03/2021 21:58

Wheesht for Indy is the idea that everything should be swept under the rug until independence is secured. It's perpetuated by a few people, who I think are a bit silly, on Twitter.

Obviously these things should be investigated.

WouldBeGood · 01/03/2021 22:01

And thank you @isurvive

StarryEyeSurprise · 01/03/2021 22:03

@WouldBeGood

Wheesht for Indy is a movement in the SNP which seeks to persuade members to keep quiet about corruption or problems in the party to achieve an election victory. Search on Twitter
Couldn't find anything on twitter with the SNP asking members to stay quiet about corruption. Could you link please?
WouldBeGood · 01/03/2021 22:04

😃

Cismyfatarse · 01/03/2021 22:04

A tabloid source but it has what she said and Jim Sillars' report on her breach of the code.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-23566731

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 01/03/2021 22:06

Just type wheesht for Indy into your Twitter search box and you will get the gist

IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021 · 01/03/2021 22:06

Yes @StarryEyeSurprise I am referring to you not so much kurtrussel. Would've tried a few times to engage in debate tonight and you answer was to stamp your feet and say what is the lie? What is the lie? It's just poorly this thread has been really good to find out the facts of the case and as I said before if she is innocent then I hold my hands up and say a fair election and if she wins good on her but it is ok to discuss what happens if she is not.

Ianrankinfan · 01/03/2021 22:06

@daisyfraser

This '‘too wee, too poor, too stupid' trope is used by nats to shut down the unionist side of the debate. No-one has EVER said this about Scotland.

If you read Rod Liddle in the Specator about a month ago he was lionising Scotland's great intellectual heritage. It made you weep if you ever had elderly Scottish relatives all such amazing raconteurs from all walks of life. People for whom education was a treasure

Sadly there has been a coup by a self-serving mediocre First Minister doubtless backed by persons beyond the UK.

I agree with you about the Too wee Too Poor Too Stupid. It was a mantra made up and used by the SNP during Indyref as a short way of trying to stop a proper debate with Unionist supporters . It has almost become like a myth that the Unionists actually said it . @daisyfraser
IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021 · 01/03/2021 22:06

*wouldbegood

ShowmetheSnowdrops · 01/03/2021 22:08

I’m just pleased I’m not the most ancient person on this thread and some other posters also have long memories !

I’ve found the different perspectives offered by posters like LexMitior or ShadowyFeminist fascinating.

WouldbeGood I understand the frustration.

WouldBeGood · 01/03/2021 22:10

Here’s an example of the idea

Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.
TheShadowyFeminist · 01/03/2021 22:11

"1. She claims she had no knowledge of the accusations against Salmond until he told her. But his Chief of Staff had a meeting with her in her office where he told her of the allegations. She claims she "forgot" the meeting (fleeting / opportunistic etc) but he says it was planned."

This isn't quite accurate. The meeting on the 29th was arranged earlier in March, at the request of FM's office - her COS I believe. It's my understanding that it was in the initial contact to arrange that meeting that a complaint's name was alleged to have been disclosed. I think if it was in the 29th meeting, then NS's claim that she didn't believe the disclosure happened makes little sense as she was at that meeting & could say for sure if it was disclosed or not. The meeting on 29th wasn't the informal request for a meeting with Aberdein popping his head round her office door to ask if it was OK that AS 'popped in' to see her at her home. The 2nd April meeting was a fairly heavy meeting he'd traveled 200+ miles to get to, along with his ex COS, his lawyer/counsel. 29th March meeting was supposedly to arrange the 2nd April meeting.

I've seen a lot of people asking why that 29th March meeting makes such a difference as it's only a few days. The reason it's significant is it calls into question when Sturgeon 1st knew. And when she 1st knew then has implications for what happened when the complainants 1st approached with their complaints.

I've seen it mentioned that McCann, the person one of the complainants 1st approached is alleged to have 'sat' on the disclosure until it was politically useful. I don't know the source of that so I can't say if it's true or not.

Both Sturgeon & Murrell have said they had no inclination or concerns about Salmond's alleged behaviour before the allegations came forward. Sturgeon's role as DFM under Salmond included (before that role was removed under the unlawful process Evans introduced) being the most senior person in government who would have to address any formal complaints. One of the issues with the Fairness at Work policy that Salmond introduced was that in all that time there were no formal complaints but there were informal resolutions. One of the eventual complainants made a complaint which was dealt with informally. I think the implication is that sturgeon never knew about that, never got wind of it, and yet I think it was claimed at the criminal trial it was 'known' Salmond wasn't to be left alone with lone female government employees.

I've just read that the meeting that took place days before FM was removed from the development or involvement of the unlawful harassment policy that covered former 1st ministers, between Sturgeon & Evans, Evans destroyed the notes of that meeting.

To my mind, I think it was important that Sturgeon could maintain distance from the idea of developing the harassment policy, specifically one that included former 1st ministers & which also didn't include the same resolution options as the one for current ministers. Cos if she had any fingerprints on such a policy, then it gives weight to an alleged personal vendetta, or knowledge of the behaviour that was being targeted. But no one knows what was said in that meeting where Evans destroyed the notes & then days later the development of the policy which was deemed unlawful began.

So, when she 1st knew isn't just about the difference of a couple of days.

She told Parliament she 1st found out on 2nd April. She then claims she 'forgot' the meeting on 29th march. Her explanation from Salmond's POV is implausible, given the subject & prior discussions on the subject.

I'll need to read her statements to see what she's said already but from other's comments, I'm not sure her explanations clarify much.

StarryEyeSurprise · 01/03/2021 22:13

[quote Cismyfatarse]@StarryEyeSurprise There were 2 meetings. She denied the first one took place. Denied getting any information there and then said she had forgotten it as it was "fleeting and opportunistic". The first meeting was to arrange the second. Which was in her house, in spite of being government business (not Bute House, her own one in Glasgow). So, she issued an invitation to discuss something so important that they had to meet at her house. But she now cla8ms she did not know what the meeting was about.

Aye Right. [/quote]
So she had a meeting to arrange a meeting and forgot the first took place when she was asked in Parliament? ( And whilst leading a country through a pandemic?)

Sorry, still struggling to see why that would warrant a resignation.

StarryEyeSurprise · 01/03/2021 22:18

@IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021

Yes *@StarryEyeSurprise* I am referring to you not so much kurtrussel. Would've tried a few times to engage in debate tonight and you answer was to stamp your feet and say what is the lie? What is the lie? It's just poorly this thread has been really good to find out the facts of the case and as I said before if she is innocent then I hold my hands up and say a fair election and if she wins good on her but it is ok to discuss what happens if she is not.
Erm, I was trying to find out the 'fact' of what the lie was that was said to Parliament. Quite hard to say if you believe something is bad if you don't actually know what was said ( which is what I was being asked by @ WouldBeGood).
daisyfraser · 01/03/2021 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WaxOnFeckOff · 01/03/2021 22:20

[quote Cismyfatarse]A tabloid source but it has what she said and Jim Sillars' report on her breach of the code.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-23566731[/quote]
This is about the new breach rather than the one currently being investigated.

As for that one, it has been explained ad infinitum to the poster who keeps asking "but what was the lie?" and then trying to minimise the whole situation.

ShowmetheSnowdrops · 01/03/2021 22:20

Starry if it wasn’t for the fact that we’re all in Lockdown, I’d be wondering if you’d taken yourself off to a wee retreat in Outer Mongolia with no wifi signal for the past fortnight.

TheShadowyFeminist · 01/03/2021 22:20

Misleading parliament is (or at least used to be) a serious issue. Ministers & particularly the 1st Minister, should have integrity to do the job they're elected to do, honestly & without being compromised. If they are willing to mislead parliament over what seems like an innocuous detail, it doesn't bode well for anything more serious or morally challenging.

littlbrowndog · 01/03/2021 22:21

Starry this is really important

This is not about sniping snp or whatever

It’s about our government our civil service our lord advocate our first minister

About information that the committee have asked for twice

It’s costing our country millions

Even I can see there is some bad shite going on here and I am just an ordinary voter

WaxOnFeckOff · 01/03/2021 22:22

@daisyfraser

Can't help thinking there are one or two SNP 'plants' here. Or is 'trolls' the correct term? An activity which is contrary to the MN forum rules
I don't know, but we were all accused of astroturfing a while ago, and none of those accused had ever even heard the phrase before. I have my own views but I'll keep those to myself.
littlbrowndog · 01/03/2021 22:22

Ffs the Scottish government admitted they acted unlawfully

WouldBeGood · 01/03/2021 22:23

@TheShadowyFeminist it will be interesting to see what she says on Wednesday.

daisyfraser · 01/03/2021 22:24

'misleading parliament' is Parly-speak for lying.
If only we were able to find out what Sturgeon is hiding with her super-injunctions we would begin to know the full extent of her dishonesty.

kurtrussellsbeard · 01/03/2021 22:24

As is troll hunting @daisyfraser. People with different political views aren't automatically trolls.

It's important and should be investigated.

I do admit to finding it hard to get worked up about it though in the current British political context.

Will I be happy if she's found guilty? Of course not.

Will I be calling for resignations? No.

littlbrowndog · 01/03/2021 22:25

So if she is guilty it’s all cool kurt🤦‍♀️

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread