Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.

[Cismyfatarse]

As the conversation is interesting and the thread is nearly full. Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4153007-Does-it-matter-if-Sturgeon-is-guilty-do-you-know-or-care

Interesting

Nicola herself has said she knew he had behaved inappropriately from what he'd said to her
eh? she categorically said she had never heard of any allegation of sexually inappropriate behaviour in relation to Alex Salmond, prior to the nov '17 Sky press enquiry, which ended up coming to nothing

Salmond and Sturgeon

Sounds fishy to me 😉

Both here

anon444877
Oh yeah - for as long as her own career depended upon it she looked the other way.
Once he was getting in her way he was toast.

Funny how she doesn't feel she has to speak out to protect innocent young boys being targeted by Derek 'The Child Sexter' Mackay.
Nor about his problems with alcohol - but then Mackay was being lined up as her successor so he was part of her plan.

So her concern for humanity only goes so far. And only when it serves her own ends.

The definition of woke - alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

Daisy - going by your previous posts(?) that MN deleted - it's not surprising that you sneer at being 'woke'.

@happygolurkey

Nicola herself has said she knew he had behaved inappropriately from what he'd said to her eh? she categorically said she had never heard of any allegation of sexually inappropriate behaviour in relation to Alex Salmond, prior to the nov '17 Sky press enquiry, which ended up coming to nothing

I think that the letter he gave her contained that info.

I had read that she had never heard of any allegations prior to that. This always surprised me, God forgive me, because he seems like the kind of guy that would be overly flirtatious. I suppose that's not illegal to be fair although it's no longer culturally acceptable really.

"Ms H was not one of the 2 original complaints"

I'm losing track tbh!

@StarryEyeSurprise

The definition of woke - alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

Daisy - going by your previous posts(?) that MN deleted - it's not surprising that you sneer at being 'woke'.

I know it's hilarious that this is an insult now. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@StatisticallyChallenged

It was a text actually, read out during the court case. I don't know if the committee have it, I recall seeing it somewhere.

archive.is/VY0Sa - telegraph article reporting on the court

On November 6 2017, the SNP official sent a text to Woman H which read: "I appreciate how difficult that must have been. I will sit on that and hopefully never have to deploy it."

That doesn't mean that the FM used the offences to stop AS going for re election ( if he were to).

The complainers didn't want it taken further though? So the official's doing as they asked surely?

Context and language are everything

“Deploy” is not a neutral term for a civil servant to use

Oh so that was a text from Leslie Evans?

@LexMitior

Yes! It is absolutely frightening to me as a lawyer who has worked in crime and public law.

Salmond is a powerful person. What about those of us less articulate?

This. Along with the vague implications of the Hate Crimes bill, the instincts of SNP policy are Kafkaesque and frightening.

I don't know what you are getting at here. The complainers being talked about in the committee do not include woman H

The woman H message came out during the course of the criminal complaint. She originally spoke to (I think) Ian McCann at the SNP who is the person who I believe sent that "wait to deploy" message, or whatever the wording is.

H was questioned about it in the trial and said she wanted it on record for vetting.

It's not what Sturgeon is being questioned about (unless I missed a question)

she categorically said she had never heard of any allegation of sexually inappropriate behaviour in relation to Alex Salmond, prior to the nov '17 Sky press enquiry, which ended up coming to nothing

It didn't exactly come to nothing. It was subsequently the case that there were in fact allegations.

What bothers me with what she said this morning is, that on hearing that question she was left deeply shaken. It bothered her. And yet she allegedly did nothing to look in to it further, to get to the bottom of it until that April meeting 5 months later. She is supposed to be alert to #metoo. She is supposed to be "for women" and yet on hearing there was a potential problem, she did nothing.

She has also just said that she knew there were problems in working from him but was "inured" to it and therefore didn't recognise it from the perspective of new staff. I've worked in construction for over 25 years. I've experienced so many situations which made me uncomfortable but which I now can deal with in a different way. I have never forgotten what it felt like as a newbie to have my tits discussed in a meeting and to feel helpless and am always alert to how this kind of workplace "banter" can feel, particularly to young women first coming in to the business. She can't have it both ways.

I'm also astounded that her memory is so shocking, given she is the first minister. If it is so poor, she should have written down.

It was Ian McCann, SNP officer (exact role escapes me now), who took the report & 'sat on it'. The report was made to him, and claimed by Miss H, for vetting purposes to be held on their records should Salmond decide to seek election again.

I'm not clear at which point she became one of the complainants, part of the police case.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Oh so that was a text from Leslie Evans?

Quoting myself now but I thought pp said that it was the FM who had done this but it wasn't then, it was a politically neutral civil servant? Yes?

I would find her whole 'defender of women' schtick much easier to accept if she had not been prepared to throw them under the bus to appeal to TRAs.

The sheer hypocrisy of saying that she was standing up to powerful men is breathtaking.

@Dinnafashyersel

kurt interested you think the SNP won't do well?

Any thoughts on who the replacement would be and how they will act re Murrell remaining in charge of the Party?

@Dinnafashyersel

I think the SNP won't do well for three reasons.

1. They've underestimated the strength of feeling about their perceived treatment of women with the whole GRC trans thing / Joanna Cherry.
2. Independence supporters feel quite strongly that they are failing at securing a referendum quickly enough. Many are annoyed that, in their eyes, this has taken a backseat to covid.
3. This whole AS thing. I actually think the vast majority of people won't look into to deeply but what is viewed as in fighting is always annoying.

I also think that where previously SNP could kind of take the moral high ground a bit, issues with specific folk like Derek McKay and Margaret Ferrier will erode people's trust a bit. People who are kind of on the fence and not really in to the nitty gritty of it all, this might just tip them off the fence.

Remember this is on the telly folks - going to look a bit daft doing a Sarah Smith and coming on here and claiming Nicola Sturgeon just said the exact opposite of what she actually did

@LexMitior

Context and language are everything

“Deploy” is not a neutral term for a civil servant to use

This is what I'm referring to.

@happygolurkey

Remember this is on the telly folks - going to look a bit daft doing a Sarah Smith and coming on here and claiming Nicola Sturgeon just said the exact opposite of what she actually did

I couldn't believe that the other night. Well, actually, I could - lie and apologise then tell the truth on twitter later on.

McCann isn't a civil servant. He's an employee of the SNP, a political party. He took that disclosure & sat on it.

That's separate from the original complaints made to the civil service.

I've probably caused confusion for mentioning Miss H in connection with the report to the civil service. So that's on me, and I apologise for creating confusion!

Ian McCann is an SNP employee, not a civil servant AFAIK.

Malcolm Tucker's Guide to Civil Service Language.

Just in case anyone really thinks politicians are never the ones on the receiving end.

Sorry just getting the Malcom Tucker feeling about all the wringing of hands about the poor wee wummin apparently perfectly capable of running the guts of policy implementation but incapable of making a judgement over when to give a handsy middle aged man three sheets to the wind a wide berth and instead opt to tuck him into his hotel room.