Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.

[Cismyfatarse]

As the conversation is interesting and the thread is nearly full. Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4153007-Does-it-matter-if-Sturgeon-is-guilty-do-you-know-or-care

or, say, in your top ten?

I’m of a certain vintage who remembers Scottish politics pre Devolution.

John Smith, Charles Kennedy, Malcolm Rifkind, Donald Dewar, Margo MacDonald, Michael Forsyth, Gordon Brown, George Galloway and even Tommy Sheridan.
All of them great orators and debaters, big characters and personalities.
Most of them intellectually outstanding.
Not afraid to say what they actually thought.
The era pre Spin.

@ShowmetheSnowdrops

I’m of a certain vintage who remembers Scottish politics pre Devolution.

John Smith, Charles Kennedy, Malcolm Rifkind, Donald Dewar, Margo MacDonald, Michael Forsyth, Gordon Brown, George Galloway and even Tommy Sheridan.
All of them great orators and debaters, big characters and personalities.
Most of them intellectually outstanding.
Not afraid to say what they actually thought.
The era pre Spin.

Yes. Exactly

@happygolurkey I would be hard pushed to think of a truly intelligent one.

What about you @happygolurkey? Who do you rate? And do you care if Nicola Sturgeon is found to have been lying and breached the ministerial code?

@ShowmetheSnowdrops

I’m of a certain vintage who remembers Scottish politics pre Devolution.

John Smith, Charles Kennedy, Malcolm Rifkind, Donald Dewar, Margo MacDonald, Michael Forsyth, Gordon Brown, George Galloway and even Tommy Sheridan.
All of them great orators and debaters, big characters and personalities.
Most of them intellectually outstanding.
Not afraid to say what they actually thought.
The era pre Spin.

This thread has made me tonight and I wasn't going to comment but this really takes the biscuit!

Gordon Brown - no spin?! Did you forget about The Iraq War? The Vow? Hilarious.

What about you @Starry? Do you care if NS is found to have lied and be in breach of the code?

Tell me exactly the lie she said to Parliament please.

That’s what’s being investigated by the committee.

My question was do you care if she’s guilty or not?

@StarryEyeSurprise

Tell me exactly the lie she said to Parliament please.

We've been through this multiple times already.

Looks like the Tories aren't buying Swinney's 'screeching u-turn' in agreeing to publish key legal advice & not the full legal advice that's been asked for.

Tweet Link

Ah! Nuance - I hadn’t spotted that. That’s pretty weaselly

@WouldBeGood

That’s what’s being investigated by the committee.

My question was do you care if she’s guilty or not?

Again, tell me the lie- the words that came out her mouth please? In Parliament. Thanks

Why don’t they just publish it

What’s being hidden?

@StarryEyeSurprise just to try to explain: there’s an investigation going on. No decision has been reached. It’s alleged amongst other things that NS breached the code and lied.

Not by me. This is a parliamentary investigation.

I care if she’s found guilty of that as it’s a poor show when your leader lies to Parliament.

Do you care about that?

*This thread has made me tonight and I wasn't going to comment but this really takes the biscuit!

Gordon Brown - no spin?! Did you forget about The Iraq War? The Vow? Hilarious.*
yes starry.

George Galloway tweeted a similar list making the same point the other day. See he's just tweeted there that he's voting Tory! Real man of principal. mmh yeh, and Tommy Sheridan, who another big gang of lying women stitched up aye?

can't help feeling that a lot of folk sounding off just now (Galloway/Sillars and all the cronies) don't like the fact the old boys aren't in charge any more and calling all the shots.

but showme I would agree everyone on that list was a good politician who played an important role in their day - Galloway I've totally lost respect for though, primarily because i find him to be an utter misogynist

If you read my post correctly, I was commenting on Scottish politics pre Devolution and the calibre of politicians in those days whether you liked them / agreed with them.
The era of spin really began with Tony Blair many years later.

People like me had to leave Scotland for better opportunities in the late 80s.
Scots were regarded then as well educated and hard working from a country with Institutions held in great regard, the world over.

Devolution was hard fought and won.
The mechanisms of the Scottish Govt are not working.

It’s a mystery to me why so many Scots now seem content to accept the failures of the current SNP.
So, yes, perhaps you could explain that.

do you care if Nicola Sturgeon is found to have been lying and breached the ministerial code?

wouldbe You've already asked me that and I've already answered. Which is more than you have any of my questions. Points I raised about salmond's evidence to the inquiry got the reply 'this isn't about salmond' - despite the name of the thread. Question about the sexual harassment policy being changed (which is the whole basis of Salmonds complaint) gets the response 'I don't care about that'.
I also asked (not you specifically) Do you care if Sturgeon is not guilty? And got no answer from anyone. Interested to know though. Is it something that is important? or not, so long as she can be gotten rid of.
What about you @happygolurkey? Who do you rate? You are the one claiming they are all thick? but yet again, no straight answer as to who exactly.
Murdo Fraser, Ruth Davidson, Joan McAlpine, John Swinney, Nicola Sturgeon and Andy Wightman are some I respect and feel are talented and effective - although i have differences of opinion with most of them and strongly disagree with many of them politically. I'm not keen on Jackie Ballie but know someone who lives in her constituency who says she is a very good MP. That's another point, it's not all about performing in parliament - some MPs - of all parties - are very good constituency MPs but don't have such a high national profile. I know there are a lot of crap politicians too, and I certainly don't think any of them should get an easy ride or not be put under scrutiny but it's easy just to tear down everyone and everything.

I’m a scot and not content to accept the failings of the current government. I have been utterly pissed off for years. As have my friends.

The SNP is like a cult. You can’t even reason with it’s supporter; there is no dissent. Opposition parties are in disarray. It’s extremely depressing and more than once I have considered moving across the border

Our education and legal and political systems used to be a matter of great pride. I now feel it’s an embarrassment. I’m only glad a light is now being shone. Look at the pathetic legislative attempts.

The primary issue is that the party members are just not that bright.

It's the Twitter spats that are annoying me. Probably irrationally but why is Murdo Fraser tweeting his displeasure? I just feel like they should be above social media. I get that it's a personal preference but I think the should hold themselves to a higher standard.

I don't like the SNP and if they are innocent in this I will happily see an election go ahead and if they win take it on the chin. If they have covered stuff up then I want all of them gone.

@happy it’s hopeless discussing things with you. I’ve tried but won’t try more.

@Called I agree. Time and time again it’s shown to be a belief rather than any kind of intellect based politics.

Which is fair enough of people vote for it. But the sleaze going on just now is just appalling and casts Scotland in a very bad light.

I think Joan is about to get the push. She supports women

Andy wightman got the push for supporting women -eventually

Nicola has not supported Joanna cherry despite her being sent a corrective rape threat and despite Joanna having to have police protection

This '‘too wee, too poor, too stupid' trope is used by nats to shut down the unionist side of the debate.
No-one has EVER said this about Scotland.

If you read Rod Liddle in the Specator about a month ago he was lionising Scotland's great intellectual heritage. It made you weep if you ever had elderly Scottish relatives all such amazing raconteurs from all walks of life. People for whom education was a treasure

Sadly there has been a coup by a self-serving mediocre First Minister doubtless backed by persons beyond the UK.