Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.

[Cismyfatarse]

As the conversation is interesting and the thread is nearly full. Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4153007-Does-it-matter-if-Sturgeon-is-guilty-do-you-know-or-care

X-post.

It's rather more serious than that. If NS is forced to resign then they need JS as caretaker for the election as he is her Deputy. I really don't see how they can risk losing them both. Even if she survived by jettisoning him to maintain the cover up I can't see how she could spin it favourably.

The irony being that Salmond talks and refers to UK concepts in his statement is huge. He sounds more Westminster than Nicola "Council Leader" Sturgeon. I wonder if that will be enough to smear Salmond and his lack of faith in independence so that no one is bothered, and dismiss him because of his questions (previously unfashionable to answer in the world of the SNP under his watch).

I saw that about the Greens. I hope they do support it.

Also saw the bold Humza claiming they were doing very well despite opposition attempts to smear them. To be honest, I thought, no smearing needed. No shame.

"Just to be clear, you're saying it's the SNP's fault that the Conservatives and Labour are terrible parties?"

Nope. Strange that this is your take though.

Labour imploded for a myriad of reasons, and that implosion meant there wasn't any effective 'checks & balances' on the SNP over reach. The SNP didn't cause that implosion but certainly benefited from it.

The Tories haven't been a serious political force in Scotland for a long time, but have a disproportionate influence due to being part of the Westminster influence of a Tory majority government. But tory MSPs do little to impact devolved areas. Although that's likely to change in the future (this is an interesting thread on how Westminster will use the internal market bill to usurp devolved administrations & devolved areas where they can - twitter link )

Good government needs a strong opposition to ensure there's not any over reach or bad legislation pushed through without proper scrutiny. Look at the HCB. It's got bad law poorly scrutinised written all over it, and it's getting closer to passing because of the way it's being rushed through to pass before the end of the current session of Parliament. The issues raised& the volume of widespread criticism should have been enough to make them step back, discuss, properly address the many problems that were flagged, and start the Bill from scratch even if it meant carrying over to after the election. But they haven't done that. That's why strong opposition is important - the lack of any opposition being able to challenge the ability of the SNP to push this through is a real problem IMO.

Lex who is holding Blackford and Sturgeon to account every time they misrepresent the relationship with WM? There are failings in the Devolution settlement on both sides and the Smith Commission did not resolve the mess.

Scotland has a Devolved Govt under a UK Govt. It is still WM's job to govern the whole of the UK and that includes stepping in as necessary in Scotland and making it absolutely clear when the Devolved administrations are acting illegally / outside their powers or indeed undermining UK wide approaches. Recently the Scottish Office has been better at this but it should never imho have been acting with kid gloves and abdicating responsibility in the way it has for the last decade.

No wonder people vote for Independence given the levels of neglect from WM.

Wonder if this will happen. Why won’t SG hand over the evidence to the committee

Well good on the greens - if scot gov don't now concede they really will be the cheese that stands alone.

That's interesting that the greens are supporting the VONC. It's about time the obfuscation & suppression of important evidence was ended. Pity this wasn't done months ago though. This committee has been taking evidence publicly since August last year. 7 months!

I'm keeping 🤞 we finally get to see this happen.

Also seeing the SNP are not holding a spring conference so members are concerned about how they can influence policy for the manifesto. A “Campaign Event” is being held instead.

A lot of their own members seem worried about the leadership corruption and control too, it seems

@littlbrowndog

Wonder if this will happen. Why won’t SG hand over the evidence to the committee

At this stage it seems reasonable to deduce that the legal advice supports the allegation that they were dragging the JR out in the hope the police case would overtake it.

Well, I think the problem rests not with the Scottish Office or the remainder of Westminster but the problem is obvious - a small legal profession and a small civil service captured by politics.

What basis does Westminster have to change in that? Nothing.

I think a lot of Scottish legislation is dire. This was once my job to write such laws and professionally its poor. I am sure that if the Scottish Government and Westminster had better relationships then it might be less bad but without outing myself I do think Scottish people had better wake up a bit to understand if you vote in people who say "Westminster" and declare it to be rotten then you should wonder what comes in place of that, and what consequences there are to voting in SNP for over a decade. Its like waving a flag that says "Scotland alone" even when there is common concern or interest.

This is very predictable to those of us who used to be involved. The issues regarding justice have always been devolved and still less the Crown Office and prosecution matters. I doubt anything will be done in London short of watching matters unfold.

Jeez. Now she is saying she has a 4 nations covid briefing so can only do a certain time. This really is not on. Shouldn’t she stay as long as she is needed. To fully answer the committee

Pic

JB makes an excellent point.

She rather shot herself in the foot with that excuse when she prioritised the daily update over it.

Scotland has become increasingly insular over recent years.
The SNP professes to be a progressive, open minded party but the reality is an incestuous group of politicians, lawyers, civil servants and journalists whose professional and personal relationships have become blurred, to say the least.

As a Scot living in England, it’s been akin to watching a slow motion car crash.
The constant We’re Better narrative from the SNP jarred with the reality of a litany of failures over devolved matters and yet this misplaced superiority complex seeped into the public consciousness to such a degree that any dissent was just not acknowledged, much less tolerated.

The minute you start taking pot shots from over the Border you do the SNP's job for them. All too often people conflate Scotland with the SNP.
David Cameron and Theresa May spent the best part of a decade doing it to attack Labour. If you want examples of poor legislation look at Universal Credit, The EU Withdrawal Agreement, FTPA, Corona Virus Act - all suffering from lack of thought, debate, scrutiny and deficient implementation. If you want issues with Police interference again there have been plenty in WM. That's before we even start on Tony Blair and WMD, Bercow and bullying or all the various sexual assaults.

I agree there are issues and the brain drain and small World don't help.

That’s appalling about NS and the committee. Does she not realise how bad that looks? So disrespectful.

She can just send her deputy to the four nations Covid meeting... oops, maybe not

So basically, no one is allowed to critique Scotland because they don’t live there ?

Of course, there are hundreds of examples of Westminster failures but there are better checks and balances and a more robust media for a start.

The hypersensitivity of Scots being unable to accept a different point of view from outwith Scotland, is one of the reasons why it’s such a mess,

Why is John Swinney's job suddenly on the line?
This woman really takes us all for mugs.
She thinks this blood sacrifice will save her?
And anyway, he'll just be reshuffled somewhere else.

'The hypersensitivity of Scots being unable to accept a different point of view from outwith Scotland, is one of the reasons why it’s such a mess,'

There should be far more Westminster involvement in Scottish affairs. It's beyond me why they sent lorryloads of cash over the border without ever asking where it was being spent. And why they winced at every snipey comment from Sturgeon and immediately went away.
We voted to remain British.

Is there anywhere else in the world where the CE of the ruling party, and the First/Prime Minister are husband and wife? Not the teeniest conflict of interests?

@Dinnafashyersel

The minute you start taking pot shots from over the Border you do the SNP's job for them. All too often people conflate Scotland with the SNP. David Cameron and Theresa May spent the best part of a decade doing it to attack Labour. If you want examples of poor legislation look at Universal Credit, The EU Withdrawal Agreement, FTPA, Corona Virus Act - all suffering from lack of thought, debate, scrutiny and deficient implementation. If you want issues with Police interference again there have been plenty in WM. That's before we even start on Tony Blair and WMD, Bercow and bullying or all the various sexual assaults.

I agree there are issues and the brain drain and small World don't help.

I don't - I gave up working with the Scottish Government a few years ago chiefly because it was a waste of my time - I like to actually do things rather than waste my time. I may not like the matters you mention, but they were in a functioning Parliament and they were not written by a captured civil service. I've seen bad legislation all my life but Scotland is in a league of its own.

The Hate Crime Bill is a really embarrassing piece of legislation which is terrible. Ill thought out, badly drafted, flawed and probably unlawful if the lawyers felt they could say so.

I think its pretty fair to conflate Scotland with the SNP, at least politically. What do SNP voters think would happen? That there would carry on being a good relationship with Westminster. No, its gone. Along with the links to the UK. And if I had ever picked up the phone to speak to a Scottish counterpart, I would have got such an earful on principle that it wasn't worth to try and build a common cause.

@LexMitior maybe you should start a thread about that?

The Hate Crime Bill !! ....
This is a personal piece of nonsense which is an insult to everyone in Scotland.
Can people not see the irony of this openly racist MUSLIM who has been made JUSTICE MINISTER in Scotland allowed to launch his bigoted agenda? Apparently Yousaf is known as 'permavictim'.
We Scots are so intolerant and in need of Hate legislation we also now have a Muslim Party Leader.

Sad to say there are some really dim people in Scotland with a vote. And Sturgeon damn well knows it

So much of what the Scottish 'cabinet' does is done to settle petty scores and win personal points. It comes from the top.