Salmond v Sturgeon Round 2.

[Cismyfatarse]

As the conversation is interesting and the thread is nearly full. Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4153007-Does-it-matter-if-Sturgeon-is-guilty-do-you-know-or-care

So it’s looking more and more like Sturgeon (or the people around her) applied all the machinery of the state to get rid of a political rival.

And we know she’s got form on that - the last-minute change in the rules to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing for Holyrood.

And we know the SNP have form for ignoring legal advice that they are about to do something illegal, if we believe Wings’ account of the recent decision to reserve top list slots for BAME and self-declared disabled candidates.

I believe in independence but not at this cost.

It's being discussed on Newsnight now. Should be interesting.

In case anyone has forgotten, this is what Henry McLeish resigned over:

Resignation
McLeish resigned as First Minister in November 2001, amid a scandal involving allegations he sub let part of his tax subsidised Westminster constituency office without it having been registered in the register of interests kept in the Parliamentary office. The press called the affair Officegate. Though McLeish could not have personally benefited financially from the oversight, he undertook to repay the £36,000 rental income, and resigned to allow the Scottish Labour Party a clean break to prepare for the 2003 Scottish Parliament election.[8] McLeish did not seek re-election.

thumbsnap.com/sc/jUi4JBDj.png

Independence is bigger than the SNP

Thanks for the newsnight tip off, was just about to go to bed but now watching!

@Happinessisawarmcervix

So it’s looking more and more like Sturgeon (or the people around her) applied all the machinery of the state to get rid of a political rival.

And we know she’s got form on that - the last-minute change in the rules to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing for Holyrood.

And we know the SNP have form for ignoring legal advice that they are about to do something illegal, if we believe Wings’ account of the recent decision to reserve top list slots for BAME and self-declared disabled candidates.

I believe in independence but not at this cost.

Whats that about reserved places for BAME and self declared disabled candidates? Is that illegal

@WaxOnFeckOff

In case anyone has forgotten, this is what Henry McLeish resigned over:

Resignation
McLeish resigned as First Minister in November 2001, amid a scandal involving allegations he sub let part of his tax subsidised Westminster constituency office without it having been registered in the register of interests kept in the Parliamentary office. The press called the affair Officegate. Though McLeish could not have personally benefited financially from the oversight, he undertook to repay the £36,000 rental income, and resigned to allow the Scottish Labour Party a clean break to prepare for the 2003 Scottish Parliament election.[8] McLeish did not seek re-election.

Wasn’t another labour leader Wendy Alexander ? Forced to resign over something trifling as well?

Yousaf. Flailing around

Fgs. He is our justice minister

Isn’t he meant to be for us the people. ?

@Happinessisawarmcervix

So it’s looking more and more like Sturgeon (or the people around her) applied all the machinery of the state to get rid of a political rival.

And we know she’s got form on that - the last-minute change in the rules to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing for Holyrood.

And we know the SNP have form for ignoring legal advice that they are about to do something illegal, if we believe Wings’ account of the recent decision to reserve top list slots for BAME and self-declared disabled candidates.

I believe in independence but not at this cost.

Agreed

I couldn't remember who else @Bejazzled. So McLeish didn't actually gain from this, seems more like an omission to declare (forgot/didn't know/deliberately chose not to?), however did repay money that he actually never received and resigned.

And here we have the debacle that is the SNP gripping on to power with their grubby little hands. Shameful and embarrassing.

It seems to me that at best she could, perhaps, claim that in light of other evidence she accepts she’s been mistaken in terms of the timing of some her recollections and, as such, inadvertently misled the Scottish Parliament. Also that there have been various administrative failures for which she’s sorry (but not directly responsible). That might just keep the Greens on side for an VONC and then she can always play up the Scottish victim card for the elections- that biased London media etc etc.

But even if she does that she’s only delaying the inevitable - she’ll resign soon enough in order to stop ‘being a distraction’ and to allow the government to ‘focus on dealing with pandemic’

What a fucking waste of money

Whats that about reserved places for BAME and self declared disabled candidates? Is that illegal

Not tested in court but they apparently had legal advice suggesting it wouldn't hold up.

@Bejazzled I think I’m right in thinking that they also ignored legal advice on that very subject - itv was to do with the NEC meeting where all the self id as disabled stuff was approved

Wendy Alexander resigned over funding or something financial issue iirc. I don't know what NS thinks she can say tomorrow that is going to get her out of this mess.

I really hope they properly press her tomorrow and keep pushing until she has to answer honestly or perjure herself.

On the shortlisting question - here’s Wings “This was a much-disputed plan, because many members believed it would be plainly illegal under equalities law, so the party commissioned a QC to offer expert legal advice. That advice has been leaked to Wings and we publish it below.

“To save you reading all of it, however, we’ll give you the summary: counsel thought the proposal would be likely to be found unlawful were it to be challenged in court. Any case brought by a person disadvantaged by the rule would probably succeed, and cost the SNP tens of thousands of pounds in legal expenses.”

wingsoverscotland.com/the-death-wish/

@LoisWilkersonslastnerve

Wendy Alexander resigned over funding or something financial issue iirc. I don't know what NS thinks she can say tomorrow that is going to get her out of this mess.

Alexander announced her resignation yesterday after 24 hours of agonising, keeping Downing Street guessing until the last minute. In a statement, she said she risked continuing to attract 'vexatious complaints' which distracted from policy issues if she continued, adding that her treatment had been a breach of natural justice.

She has had a difficult time as leader, taking over with morale at rock bottom after Labour lost control of the Scottish parliament. She fell out with Brown earlier this year after calling for the SNP's proposed referendum on independence to be brought forward, prompting Brown to contradict her publicly.

More dangerous, however, were the funding allegations. Alexander escaped a police investigation over a £950 donation to her 2007 leadership campaign, ruled illegal because it came from a Jersey-based businessman, but faced a wider inquiry by the Scottish parliament's Standards Commissioner, Jim Dyer.

Dyer ruled last week that she should have declared eight donations totalling £8,000 to her campaign for the leadership, even though she had followed legal advice from parliamentary clerks that she need not do so.

The Scottish parliament's SNP-chaired standards committee, made up of seven MSPs, two of them Labour and three SNP, suspended her for a day in punishment, to the anger of Labour politicians who argued that she was being harshly treated for acting in good faith. Her brother, the Labour Cabinet Minister Douglas Alexander, said it had been a tough decision to go, adding: 'I understand Wendy's characteristic instinct to put the Labour party interests first. She is a woman of outstanding talent and as a family we care about her very much.'

Brown praised her 'outstanding' contribution and her 'dedication to social justice'.

There was sympathy last night from opposition MSPs, with Scottish Tory leader Annabel Goldie wishing her 'time and peace for herself and her family', while Lib Dem leader Nicol Stephen said it was sad that she had been forced to resign.

However, deputy first minister Nicola Sturgeon rejected attempts to blame the SNP for her downfall, adding: 'There can be no doubt that the information on her illegal campaign donation could only have come from within the inner circles of the Labour party.'

Wendy Alexander:

In 2007, a controversy developed after it emerged that Alexander's campaign team had accepted a £950 impermissible donation from Paul Green, a property magnate,[84] a matter that was investigated by the Electoral Commission and Strathclyde Police.[85] When it emerged that the donation of £950 had come from a personal account, and not a business account, the money was immediately forfeited. Further newspaper reports on 30 November indicated Alexander was aware of the identity of the donor, after having sent a personal letter of gratitude to Mr Green (at his home in Jersey) concerning the donation.[86] As Mr Green was not registered as an elector in the United Kingdom this barred him from donating to a UK-based party. However, the Electoral Commission concluded in February 2008 that Alexander had taken 'significant steps' to comply with funding regulations and decided there was no basis for further action.[87] As part of the Electoral Commission ruling, they also stated that Alexander "did not take all reasonable steps" and that "there is not sufficient evidence to establish that an offence has been committed".[88] These mixed messages have resulted in a number of people questioning the decision, including Alex Salmond the head of the Scottish Government who likened the result to a not proven verdict.[89]

sorry crossed with @Bejazzled there. Interesting quote from NS in yours.

She has delayed and delayed giving any real response, that is odd in itself as she's usually pretty direct and efficient. Her very strengths could well be her undoing. She isn't the type of person who simply forgets things, or doesn't follow procedures etc so this fudging doesn't ring true.

Hopefully everyone can now see that the emperor is naked.

What needs to happen now is people making sure the momentum in tackling these issues is kept up and for Sarwar and Ross to get a proper agreement about trying to combine the vote in some constituencies to oust the SNP candidate.