Tiers until the end of time

[runningpink]

Quickly putting this up as last thread is full

@RaspberryCoulis

I don't think they will - political suicide. Although it may well be "well if I'm going down i;m taking the rest of you fuckers with me".

England and Wales have elections going ahead in May so be very difficult to justify postponing in Scotland

I think the issue about the new levels though is how unrealistic they are applied to real life in a population where the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

In my LA 20 cases per 100000 per week translates roughly to one case per week in each town and big village or say a smaller outbreak of 5 cases in a few areas. To me, it would be insanity to then say because of that no-one in the LA is allowed to have more than 8 people in their garden or no-one inside their house which is what level 2 used to be - when we know that those cases are highly highly unlikely to lead to hospitalisation then death.

And as a PP said - there is no end date to aim for for this - do they really expect us to agree to not socialising at all indefinitely, because that's what this feels like.

I think they're losing grip of what will be acceptable to the general public.

@RaspberryCoulis

Rumours circulating on Twitter that the SG are about to postpone the election.

Of course they'll say it's down to Covid.

They really do take us for fucking idiots.

I think this was debated on a previous thread. The government can't technically postpone it, only the presiding officer, after gathering evidence from a number of sources.

There are contingencies in place instead of postponing, i.e. opening polling places for 3/4 days instead of 1.

I think I posted a link to the Act before, I'll see if I can find it again.

This takes you to the actual piece of legislation if anyone can be arsed

www.gov.scot/news/parliament-backs-scottish-election-bill/

That BBC article is beyond a joke. I now have to ask myself how many times I broke the law last week. This is a year later. The strategy does not work. We have a really high death rate and we have had restrictions for a year. It's time to go a different way.

New thread surely has to be:

‘Tiers Ad Infinitum’

Problem is, the different way is opening up (and I assume you/most people mean now) when most adults still aren't vaccinated, how's that going to work in terms of protect the NHS/save lives?

We're just not there yet with the number of people vaccinated.

Funny how the elections were set in stone when infection rates were high and nothing else was a certainty, but now that rates have decreased they might not be held.

It's almost as if some strange external factor was influencing the decision- I wonder what that could be ?

If the issue is “vaccine hesitancy” the answer has to be mandating vaccines or refusing treatment to the wilfully unvaccinated. Not keeping a population locked up because some selfish pricks don’t want a vaccine.

@RedcurrantPuff that’s just an awful thing to say. Some people can’t have the vaccine and compulsory vaccination is a slippery slope.

Also, it’s got nothing to do with vaccine hesitancy.

@GirlLovesWorld

Problem is, the different way is opening up (and I assume you/most people mean now) when most adults still aren't vaccinated, how's that going to work in terms of protect the NHS/save lives?

We're just not there yet with the number of people vaccinated.

The protect the NHS ship sailed a long time ago... if you’re still buying into that message you need to give your head a wobble

[quote WouldBeGood]@RedcurrantPuff that’s just an awful thing to say. Some people can’t have the vaccine and compulsory vaccination is a slippery slope.

Also, it’s got nothing to do with vaccine hesitancy.[/quote]
Which is why I said the wilfully unvaccinated. If people choose not to have the vaccine, for anything other than medical reasons, I don’t care if they get sick or die frankly. I’m not willingly staying locked up to protect the selfish. You can if you want. I’ve done my bit.

The point on vaccine hesitancy was made by a previous poster and I was responding.

I think vaccine refusal is much less of an issue in the UK than it is in Central Europe, where they seem to have got themselves into a right old pickle.

I don't think it will cause a significant issue here as a high enough percentage of the population do want the vaccine, but I do agree at some point it needs to be caveat emptor for those who wilfully refuse it.

I would agree with you @GirlLovesWorld if the indicator for what levels to take or lock down easing included vaccinations but it doesn't.

So you could have 30 cases in children/teenagers spread across an entire local authority who can't receive a vaccination and this will be push some LA into a higher tier so businesses are then restricted again. In my LA any number above 30 cases in a week pushes the rate per 100,000 into 25ish. So would mean businesses shutting. This would be never ending! We all know social distancing in schools is nonexistent.

This is the reality of using positive case numbers and not factoring in vaccination levels. I'm assuming this is why England isn't using positive rate but instead using hospitalisation and vaccine rates as the indicator for easing restrictions.

@GirlLovesWorld but that isn't what they are saying. It's even with most of the population vaccinated we will still have tiers. That is where they are loosing the public. This "cautious" approach has been peddled long enough. Take a look at Glasgow Live they love NS and the comments usually sway more towards positive for her barr a few but not they are nearly all in the other direction.

The strategy does not work. We have a really high death rate and we have had restrictions for a year. It's time to go a different way.

This

Charles Walker MP talking about much more support for people still at risk - like Groovee's situation. How much more sensible would it be to pay her to stay at home till Mr G is properly better than to use the fig leaf of testing to force her to work while isolating the whole population on rotation.

Wur internet is gubbed this morning - prob due to all the extra happy clappy resources for book week. Just as well I have an off-line laptop for DD3 to write her book on. Honestly getting very irritated by the endless hand wringing and lack of ambition to actually sort anything.

Loads of neighbours work in various aspects of health service. No-one seeing any evidence of a plan to sort it out. Local nursing home closing down due to lack of financial support at a time when they should be building capacity - it is small scale and new and in a great countryside location close to amenities.

I am a naturally cautious person. I don't work partly because my DH needs a lot of support and I have no trust in social services - they seldom fail to reinforce my distrust. Where is the contingency plan from
Govt? What exactly are they doing to resolve anything rather than testing their subjects to destruction?

Vaccine rates for MMR kept up in Scotland. We do t have much vaccine hesitancy in general for which I've always been thankful.

With covid the people I know who have said they'd like to wait and see have had the jag when offered!

Sorry diatribe of frustration again

Just looking on Twitter. I'm pretty unswayed by Jennifer and her 'hunch'.

You made some good points Dinna, especially about targeted support.

Unswayed here.(Though I've thought the election was scientifically suspect given a zero covid approach!)

But does Helen have good sources unile me.😅

Does Jennifer have form, Girl?

Why did I put Helen ? I meant Jennifer.

Will give up multitasking badly now.

I do think that the vaccines are being taken into consideration but its more around their impact than just looking at the numbers of people actually vaccinated. And that is why there are numerous studies looking at the impact and effectiveness of the vaccines. Happily there does seem to be evidence to say that the vaccine will reduce transmission therefore I think we can hope that with the continuing vaccination program (and yes it absolutely needs to go faster!) then we can hope for significantly lower case numbers which should in turn translate into fewer hospital admissions and deaths and hopefully allow lower levels across the board. However it will take time to get everyone vaccinated and for those vaccines to be effective enough to slow the spread.