Tiers until the end of time

[runningpink]

Quickly putting this up as last thread is full

The latest recommendations for secondary schools in England are a good example of some of the issues. The Govt want children to take multiple Covid tests and wear face coverings in class. Both of these are recommendations not requirements and subject to consent. Explicit statements that education cannot be denied due to refusal to comply. This again is trickier in England because of the situation with regards to compulsory school attendance and the tradition of fining parents and requiring doctors' notes etc etc. "Blended" options would be a work around.

There is already a religious challenge to the church closures, from a range of Christian denominations. A judicial review was threatened in England and possibly led to a change in their plans as it seemed that they had a case. Not sure how far it'll get here as it may be a moot point by the time it gets to being heard.

Thanks Polarisation, I hadn't seen that. As you say may be a moot point by the time it gets there although given the threat of future potential lockdowns they may decide to pursue it anyway so that the precedent is established?

www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/ministers-face-judicial-review-over-church-lockdown-closures/

That was the first secular source I can see. Another source said it's been granted by a judge and being held remotely on 11-12 March.

A court in the Netherlands said the government was misusing the emergency power's for curfew that the legislation was intended for invasion war, massive floods ( a third of country is below sea level) the government are having to re draft as the way they were doing it was illegal breach of human rights
This is also why marriage is still going ahead as restricting to 5 is not a breach to the right to marry but banning marriage completely is as for some religions living together without marriage is not acceptable and stopping people practising their religion as they see fit in community is also a breach there is a right to marry not a right to a big reception and party so the couple, the celebrant and two witnesses is the legal minimum and maximum currently

The interesting thing about the churches challenge is it seems to be the smaller churches that are challenging, Church of Scotland and RC churches seem to be staying out of it.

Very interesting horizon programme on BBC 2 on covid.
Summary its unlikely to be like measles but ability to change vaccines is quick, we need high vaccination rate to help, it can mutate like anything (37 times within 1 patient very sadly) but majority of transmission is by a few.

I suggest watching! From it I learnt that NS basis that it's like measles is bollocks and yes I'm going to listen to 2 twin Dr's, geneticists and virology specialists!

Sorry should clarify when I say majority of transmission by a few..... Is meant that it's not equal some can be major superspreeders others don't transmit

When the churches were closed in January, the RC Bishops made a [[https://scmo.org/news-releases/perma/1609848000/article/catholic-bishops-question-scottish-governments-clo.html]] questioning why churches were being closed without evidence that there was transmission there. It was announced on the 4th that they would close on the 8th, the statement came out on the 5th and on the 6th the government said they'd made a mistake and churches had to shut immediately since travelling to them would be illegal. So we've already had a slap on the wrist for asking questions.

Ack meant to hit preview to check my clicky link scmo.org/news-releases/perma/1609848000/article/catholic-bishops-question-scottish-governments-clo.html

Thanks for that Scottishskifun. Usually big fans of the Operation Ouchers in our house. Interesting and welcome that they are presenting this sort of balance and nuance.

Human rights that have been broken.

Unfair detention

Freedom to move

Marriage & family

Public assembly

Education

Thought and religion

Human rights can't be taken away

Did all the legal stuff kill the thread?

The legal stuff is interesting. I guess most posters, like myself, aren't qualified to comment.

But it does overlap with my concern and incredulity at the extent to which so many people seem to now identify as rule followers and post about it on fb etc. Profile pics with masks, government mantras etc. As a pp said, the government decided on its priorities without much in the way of consultation. So many people seem to treat their pronouncements like a religion. It's helpful to point out how human rights are being breached by the guidance/regulations.

Taking of legal stuff I wasted a couple of hours of my life reading online about the Salmond / Sturgeon legal situation.

It's like the film Inception: I thought I was following but I can't give a plot summary this morning!

I find it really strange that some people accept all this just because the government tells them to.

Especially given what we know of politicians.

@OldRailer

Taking of legal stuff I wasted a couple of hours of my life reading online about the Salmond / Sturgeon legal situation.

It's like the film Inception: I thought I was following but I can't give a plot summary this morning!

I know what you mean 😂

All I can really think is what a sleazy corrupt lot. It’s very unedifying. I would like it resolved so politics can move on and so Scotland doesn’t look so dodgy.

I also got sidetracked into the Rangers case that has ended in so much compensation.

I honestly can’t believe what’s been going on.

There's a couple of threads about the Sturgeon/Salmond stuff @OldRailer

I had seen them and now I might be able to understand more.

The rangers case is mind blowing - 23 million of tax payers money. Police Scotland have not disclosed how much they have had to settle

Below from the lord advocate

The Lord Advocate writes in his letter to Tomkins, dated Friday 5 February 2021:

“Following the admissions of liability on my behalf, mediations took place between each of the two pursuers and my representatives. Following the production, analysis and scrutiny of material vouching the losses sustained by each of the pursuers as a result of their prosecution, an agreement was reached with each pursuer that he would be paid a sum by way of damages of £10.5 million. Each of these pursuers was a very high earning individual, and the settlement figure, in each case, reflected the actual loss which the pursuer was able to demonstrate had been caused to him by the wrongful prosecutions. In addition to these payments by way of damages, interim payments have been made to each of the pursuers in respect of legal expenses. In respect of Mr Whitehouse, that sum is £1,650,000.00 and in respect of Mr Clark, the figure is £1,436,250.00. The final liability in respect of judicial expenses in the civil action has not yet been assessed; and I will confirm the final figures to you in due course.”

He then confirms that the Chief Constable of Police Scotland has also settled claims arising from the scandal:

“I understand that the Chief Constable has also settled the claims against him brought by Mr. Clark and Mr. Whitehouse. I am not party to those settlements, and am unaware of their terms.”

This business gets murkier and murkier, and more expensive for the taxpayer, by the day.

I am a politics nerd but the entire Salmond/Sturgeon thing has entirely passed me by, I just can't seem to get a handle on it for some reason!

@OldRailer

Taking of legal stuff I wasted a couple of hours of my life reading online about the Salmond / Sturgeon legal situation.

It's like the film Inception: I thought I was following but I can't give a plot summary this morning!

🤣 nicely put. It’s exactly like that.

I woke up to hearing a BBC report talking about the level of hospital admissions and deaths being factored in relative to overall covid case number more in England, whereas it's just covid cases in Scotland...I'd been alarmed at the rise in covid numbers in different regions of Scotland, but surely, as the most vulnerable get vaccinated, the proportion of people who have covid who are getting very ill, should be dropping? And shouldn't that factor in the policy with lockdown?

This isn't to downplay the impact of long covid and dismiss people who get very ill or die, btw, but shouldn't we be approaching the point that the vast majority of people catching covid in Scotland now should get through it without any intervention?

Sorry, I can't think of a comment about Salmond and Sturgeon. It just seems like an ugly mud-slinging fight that I can't get my head around.