Just in tiers with it all now ....

[dancemom]

New Thread, same old situation....

FWIW, I don't think NS is solely playing at being Not Boris. I think she really wants to avoid further unnecessary covid deaths and remembers the mistakes made re carehomes/ early cases at the Nike conference and so on and is being extra cautious as a result. But I also think she is less concerned about economic issues given the power to mitigate those (through furlough and so on) isn't up to her. So she is free to say, oh, it's awful so many businesses suffered but the UK government didn't fund them adequately to get through this pandemic that wasn't their fault.

BJ on the other hand is totally aware that the buck on everything economic (and its social and health implications - fewer businesses with less revenue = less tax = less NHS = poorer health outcomes = fewer tax paying individuals....and so on) stops with him, and is taking more epidemiological risks to try to limit as far as possible the total economic disaster over the next decade.

Two different approaches, and one is definitely perceived as more caring, but I'm not entirely sure it is, and even if it is, it's not definite that the same approach would have been made under different circumstances! Though obviously that's all hypothetical.

@HappyPumpkin81

I want to move to England now (and I have never thought that before!)

My exact thoughts!

Quite fancy North Yorkshire?

Scotland has 2/3 of the deaths of England (per head of population). This is a complex situation but this seems to be in folk's minds. As per the YouGov survey I linked to a few days ago showing people supported the more cautious approach in Scotland.

@fioreun

Scotland has 2/3 of the deaths of England (per head of population). This is a complex situation but this seems to be in folk's minds. As per the YouGov survey I linked to a few days ago showing people supported the more cautious approach in Scotland.

I have to admit to liking that we have a government who isn't entirely ambivalent about large numbers of us dying.

God knows we're not perfect but the list of thing WM has done wrong is long and disturbing, and what's worst is that many of them did these things knowingly, in order for them and/or their friends to profit, and they'll likely never feel the consequences.

Quite fancy North Yorkshire?

That's one of my dream England areas, the Dales National Park bit. All those totally unspoilt villages.

[quote kurtrussellsbeard]@jabbathebutt I doubt he will. Like you say there are many many vulnerable people still waiting for vaccinations.

The public will accept the deaths of the elderly. They won't accept a spike in deaths of those in their forties and fifties waiting to be vaccinated.

He can't get rid of social distancing and face masks. Unless he's a sociopath. [/quote]
This is true at the moment, but will there be lots of vulnerable people unvaccinated by June? I think the plan is at least to get over 50s and younger people with underlying conditions jabbed by May (?) Although of course some under 50s have died, which is awful, obviously, it may be the case that the overall reduction in transmission means the amount of virus circulating is seriously reduced so reducing the risk to the unvaccinated. Or that the very slight risk of younger people dying (and I don't see why there should be "spikes" given % deaths in this age group is overall tiny) outweighed by the benefit to society of removing some limitations. I mean, if SD isn't removed, we will never (within guidance) be able to hug anyone not in our household ever again, or go to festivals or a packed concert hall, or celebrate a birthday in a restaurant with more than 6 people. ..

I think whether this is feasible will depend what the data shows on how the vaccine affects hospitalisations and deaths, and transmission in the community, in the coming months. And I've got everything crossed... Maybe not for immediate relaxation of everything, but at least scientific acknowledgement that things are moving in the right direction for that to be possible at some point.

@fioreun

Scotland has 2/3 of the deaths of England (per head of population). This is a complex situation but this seems to be in folk's minds. As per the YouGov survey I linked to a few days ago showing people supported the more cautious approach in Scotland.

I'm not fond of comparisons in a pandemic, there's no winners! However England and Scotland (and Wales) are like apples and pears. England is a very very populous country with many large industrial cities. Scotland and Wales are not so we should have done much better than England.

If we're to be compared with anywhere it should be with other smaller European countries with only a couple of large cities and sparsely populated countryside such as Ireland. Austria, Switzerland, Denmark

@NotAnActualSheep god yes. Sorry I misread. I would hope by summer there will be no masks no SD. The hospitality industry wouldn't survive. For some reason I thought we were talking about april/ May! They'll be cautious in that crossover period.

I'm still waiting to see a conversation on MN that goes like this:

Scotland and England can't be compared.
Ok, well how about Scotland and X country?
Ooh yes that's a fair comparison, let's take a look at it.

Since last March, never happened.

Like I said, it's complex.

The point I was making was about people's perceptions, and the attitudes reported in opinion polls (and I know these are complex too ). I think this will have an impact in the May elections.

There is a difference between scoping and delivery of jabs. Which my understanding was initially refused. SG was slow to set up vaccination centres should have identified them months ago not in mid January, when asked it was because they were prioritising care homes.

It sadly has become political.
I believed NS in the early days when she said about it being about public health but not anymore. There has been no information in weeks on why some areas have high transmission and how to target it this is focusing on public health. Simply stating that England should also make everyone quarantine because Scotland is in daily briefings is barely focusing on it and instead is political.

Just to be clear, the more accurate figure for comparison of different countries (within the U.K. or globally) is to use the number of excess deaths. And in that case the number of deaths per head population in Scotland is just over 80% of those in England. So, still less but more than 2/3.

Take into account differences in population density and distribution (e.g. there is nowhere in Scotland that compares to london in terms of sheer size, population density and connectivity to the rest of the world) and also the fact that the baseline of the 5-year average of deaths from which the “excess deaths “ is calculated is higher in Scotland (higher death rates, lower life expectancy generally) that accounts for some of the difference.

@Scottishskifun

There is a difference between scoping and delivery of jabs. Which my understanding was initially refused. SG was slow to set up vaccination centres should have identified them months ago not in mid January, when asked it was because they were prioritising care homes.

It sadly has become political.
I believed NS in the early days when she said about it being about public health but not anymore. There has been no information in weeks on why some areas have high transmission and how to target it this is focusing on public health. Simply stating that England should also make everyone quarantine because Scotland is in daily briefings is barely focusing on it and instead is political.

But they did both. Again they were doing it in Fife in November.

The army definitely were no where to be seen up here in delivery of vaccinations initially only seen after the week of grilling from other parties and 5% gap appeared.

Ok, I made my bit up then 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Sootess if you compared Scotland with Ireland, Denmark, Austria then Scotland looks terrible in death toll and as this thread had earlier would also look bad in "percentage population totally vaccinated" but leader in number of people received a vaccine first dose.
Scottish government definitely wouldn't want that comparison made and would probably state that they weren't comparable.

@WannaCapybara

Ok, I made my bit up then 🤷🏻‍♀️

😂 I meant past Fife! Not all of us live in the central belt!

Yet prioritising care homes resulted in a 46 per cent decrease in deaths in care homes in January ( in Scotland).
I get people want to cling onto positives but are people actually believing the UK Government won't u turn at the last minute? And NI are more closely following Scotland's approach. I guess the government there are just doing what they're doing to spite Johnson too? The same with Wales who have taken a different approach at various times. I find it so strange that people have this point of view. It's sad really.

[quote Scottishskifun]@Sootess if you compared Scotland with Ireland, Denmark, Austria then Scotland looks terrible in death toll and as this thread had earlier would also look bad in "percentage population totally vaccinated" but leader in number of people received a vaccine first dose.
Scottish government definitely wouldn't want that comparison made and would probably state that they weren't comparable.[/quote]
Yes, for a country our size and population density and only really 2 large cities our death toll is terrible!
And so is Wales'

@Scottishskifun

The army definitely were no where to be seen up here in delivery of vaccinations initially only seen after the week of grilling from other parties and 5% gap appeared.

I don't even know whether to respond to this but you realise the army is as much Scotland's as it is anyone else 's and has been helping throughout, as in from the very start? By request of the SG. I'm sorry but the whole ' we have 50 ready to be deployed ' erm, from Scotland to Scotland is just unionist propaganda that was released to the press alongside Boris' photoshoot.

Sootess what do Wales and Scotland have in common that no other countries in the world have?

She's bringing back levels. So the people of Glasgow will continue to be punished. I just don't think I can bear it again. Wtf is the point of the vaccination programme?

@icanboogieboogiewoogie

Or you could reframe that as: there will be continued attempts to keep the people of the central belt as safe as possible 🤷🏻‍♀️

Never has the high number of cases in the Glasgow area been investigated, or if it has, it certainly wasn't explained. Believe me, I've been looking. Detailed analysis of every tiny outbreak elsewhere in the country. Nothing for Glasgow but banning us from seeing family, banning us from going for a coffee, banning us from even leaving the fucking place. Masks, masks, fucking masks. I can't see my colleagues faces. I can't understand or make myself understood by the children I teach. I'm so fucking sick of breathing my own moist air all over my own face. And now other countries (the whole country - not just chosen regions) are getting out and Nicola is still being fucking cautious. I have absolutely had enough.

Not read full thread, but I have had enough of lockdowns and restrictions and Covid-centric decision making to the detriment of everything else.

Scotland's Covid figures are shocking because:

• the government made a mess shoving older people out of hospital to care homes last year,

the so-called marvellous testing programme was anything but - e.g. no routine testing ocare workers providing care in older people's homes, ditto workplaces that needed to be open (police stations spring to mind as do hospices and food processing places). Also still sending people home or to care homes without negative covid tests at the end of last year.

• test and trace was pretty appalling - so only contacts in prior 48 hours to a positive test or symptoms starting (if any) traced. Poor information about transmission routes - suspect most via workplaces

Poor Covid outcomes (excluding age related factors) linked to poor health - such as obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc which are rife in Scotland.

So what is the Scottish Gov doing to improve the underlying health of the nation - pretty much zero at the moment!