Just in tiers with it all now ....

[dancemom]

New Thread, same old situation....

@Lockdownbear yes they need the staff to do it definitely not saying staff should work 7 days a week they need the numbers to support. Bu also not make Dr's and nurses have to complete a 5 week course when they give injections regularly and had done minimum 3 years plus of training!

Also accept any further increase of armed forces medics to administer jabs. My understanding is that they currently have 50 let's hope that there is more available!

She's just going to put meaningless, arbitrary tiers back in place. If we go back into tier 4, while others are getting on with things I’ll go crazy. We can’t live like this forever. They can sort out their fucking infection control in hospitals as that’s where the cases are coming from rather than blaming the general population for trying to live a normal life. It is inhuman to live in these tiny bubbles. We are being used as political scapegoats. 270 cases in a prison makes up 1/8 1/4 of the daily figures and they’re bitching about parents having a chat when they drop their kids off. I have had it. I can’t live like this.

Driving into (essential ) work this morning, listening to John Swinney droning on. He said that the virus was running out of control at Christmas.
Got me thinking,by Christmas large parts of central belt had not been allowed into each others houses for 4 months,hospitality was shut for weeks and had reopened but without alcohol,people in Glasgow suburbs couldn't travel into Glasgow to do their Christmas shopping.

So dos that not show that lockdown does not work (over and above the disaster it is for the economy and mental health) and that what is driving down infections, hospital admissions and deaths now is the vaccines.

I think we should aim to open up everything ASAP, starting with schools,as the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.

Do we have data for where the cases are coming from? I think someone said in a briefing last week that 4% of cases are hospital transmission, and that cases are still widespread across the community.

Can that be right?

Totally agree with @icanboogieboogiewoogie and @anon1487

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of lockdown, but it takes a big leap of faith to act on the belief that rising infection rates won't result in increased hospitalisations and deaths.

If I was in charge of a government I'd want to do it in increments, rather than big bang so if it doesn't work out as expected, there's less to claw back from.

At the moment I feel we're in quite a precarious position. Majority of vulnerable groups have received their first injections, but many within the last three weeks so may not have any immunity yet. Infection numbers have remained stubbornly consistent for last couple of weeks, despite more or less full lockdown.

For the sake of a few weeks - and yes I know that every day my S3 DS is "home learning " he's effectively one day further behind on his learning - I feel an incremental approach right now makes sense.

Once we get to Easter we should be in a much better position to start opening properly and hopefully for good.

Bu also not make Dr's and nurses have to complete a 5 week course when they give injections regularly and had done minimum 3 years plus of training!

WTF!! That's a massive waste of time money and effort.

I know its slightly more complicated but my first lesson in putting a needle in someone curiosity, young love, a bit pished and a type 1 diabetic my first lesson in injections took all of a minute.
I learned to do them properly going through fertility treatments. I was at least sober then but I certainly wasn't a 5 week course.

Even for someone without any medical background I can't figure out what the heck they teach in a 5 week course!

Great news on vaccines and huge reduction in hospitalisation- and a Scottish study!

Herald today

I agree @rookiemere if you open lots of things at the same time, how can you know what's causing any spread? Pull one lever at a time and then you can work it out easily.

It's very hard to celebrate the great vaccination news when it looks like it's getting us nowhere. It looks like we're going to be able to do LESS this spring/summer than last year. Even discounting foreign travel. I cried when I heard the first vaccination had happened but I doesn't seem like there's any real point if they're going to keep us locked up while the economy is driven into the ground.

WannaCapybara - there were articles in a number of the papers last weekend reporting that 40% of transmissions were in hospitals.

@WannaCapybara

Do we have data for where the cases are coming from? I think someone said in a briefing last week that 4% of cases are hospital transmission, and that cases are still widespread across the community.

Can that be right?

There's also been big outbreaks in prisons in West Lothian and Ayrshire i last couple weeks

Why do the journalists on the briefings never ask about where the transmissions are occurring? They ask the same questions re vaccinations and quarantine hotels every single day

Ah I did think I must have misheard!

@fluffyugg completely agree, all the press want is a new spin on 'First Minister, why do you hate Boris Johnson so much?'

They're not doing a great job of reflecting the concerns of the people, I don't think.

The Sun has a big article calling for freedom as the vaccines are out and people are voting with their feet.

Sorry, I usually just lurk on these threads- just wanted to clarify that nurses and doctors do not have to complete a 5 week course to vaccinate. I’ve just done mine and I had to do about 10 hours online learning, plus 4 supervised injections. I was glad to be supervised, as I don’t do them often. Not sure what others trusts are like though.

Yes, none of my friends who are vaccinating people had to do weeks of training.

I just thought it's ridiculous- as if they don't know how to do jags. (!)

@rookiemere

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of lockdown, but it takes a big leap of faith to act on the belief that rising infection rates won't result in increased hospitalisations and deaths.

If I was in charge of a government I'd want to do it in increments, rather than big bang so if it doesn't work out as expected, there's less to claw back from.

At the moment I feel we're in quite a precarious position. Majority of vulnerable groups have received their first injections, but many within the last three weeks so may not have any immunity yet. Infection numbers have remained stubbornly consistent for last couple of weeks, despite more or less full lockdown.

For the sake of a few weeks - and yes I know that every day my S3 DS is "home learning " he's effectively one day further behind on his learning - I feel an incremental approach right now makes sense.

Once we get to Easter we should be in a much better position to start opening properly and hopefully for good.

Completely agree . It would be madness to put everyone back in school at the moment - deaths have only just reduced from 700 a day. Primary school children do carry the virus but tend to be asymptomatic.

@StarryEyeSurprise in fairness, while it looks ridiculous, I can see why some training is involved. Injectable medications and vaccines have different modes of action, and we’re expected to be able to manage anaphylaxis. Plus there are thousands of pharmacists, retirees, CSWs and dental staff, who won’t be routinely injecting anything usually. NHS Scotland couldn’t have thousands of inexperienced staff injecting vulnerable patients with a new vaccine without at least a bit of training.
I absolutely see your point, it sounds mad that any trainings involved, but can also see that it’s necessary.

Sorry, my post wasn't clear - they've done training but not a five week course. I think a pp referred to nurses needing to do a five week course (might have picked that up wrong though!).

TBH I'm good with whoever is going to stick metal in my arm having plenty training

I totally get a bit of training, but surely even the non-medically trained injectors don't need a 5 week course.

I'm all in favour of phased reopening. I think BJ did take things too quickly last summer, so if there had been an issue with increasing infections following reopening, it wouldn't have been possible to see what it was, and close that down again. As it happened, there wasn't really... England managed May-Sept with pretty low case numbers, apart from certain hotspots which were closed down (though again, knowing what caused those hotspots may have been helpful, so they didn't necessarily need a full shutdown). Cases started rising again in September - likely due to imported cases. I think the main issue there was not getting track and trace properly sorted to prevent transmission, but had there been a slower opening in the beginning they could maybe have more effectively targeted their Autumn measures.

However, there's a difference between carefully phasing reopening and the glacial speed we seem to be going at (early years and infants back... Wait a month, then maybe some more school years... Then wait another month, oh, that's Easter so we can't do anything then, but maybe after Easter the rest can go back... Check that's OK, and maybe we'll lift the stay at home order and you can meet outside with someone else for a non essential reason. Wait a bit more... Then maybe click and collect and allowing you inside takeaways may be back. Another month, actual non essential retail, inside. Another month... Maybe we'll think about hairdressers and maybe gyms... Another month outdoor hospitality... Blah blah blah) . It'll be next Christmas by the time everything is back at that rate!

Our NHS Trust originally didn't split up Dr's and nurses into the other volunteers hence several friends ended up having to do all the same training material as new non medical training and it took weeks to get through. I don't think my NHS trust was alone in this as it was also raised in first ministers questions.

It sounds promising if they have resolved this as I did find it bonkers when told!