If the SNP win a referendum on Scottish independence, what do you think the criteria will be for moving there and getting a Scottish passport?

[Kendodd]

I'm English, live in England but love Scotland. If they became independent I would definitely want to move there if at all possible (if they let me). What do you think the rules would be for moving there and citizenship?

‘Anti English sentiment’ isn’t racism/hate’ said someone above. I dont think that’s the case - or at least it won’t be if the new Hate Crimes Bill retains the original widely expanded definition of racism. From memory it would definitely be caught and I think it should be!

It's not acceptable but it is understandable and it's going to continue to happen while we have an unequal relationship. Once Scotland is an independent country that power imbalance will be broken.
English people outside England don't have a wonderful reputation though. So many people will identify with going on holiday and being accused of being English. When you say"no, Scottish!" There is a whole different level of welcome !!

@unlimiteddilutingjuice I think if you are aware of the class and power issues, then the people who expressed that anti English sentiment were probably just having a bad day!!! It's difficult to understand if you aren't brought up in Scotland. An English accent, especially a "posh" one can still open so many doors in Scotland.

If someone says something racist as they are having a bad day is that ‘understandable’? Try substituting ‘Polish’ or ‘Black’ into your paragraph about attitudes to people overseas and read it back. You are not doing the independence argument any favours with your sweeping generalisations about a nation of people.

And a Scottish accent can open doors too - look at all the Scottish newsreaders, journalists etc.

There are plenty of arguments to be had about about an independent Scotland. If you want to get people on board, try building a positive, future focused case for independence rather than falling back on griping about perceived unfairness, mistreatment in the past. It’s not as though many English people living today are responsible for the highland clearances etc!

It's difficult to understand if you aren't brought up in Scotland. An English accent, especially a "posh" one can still open so many doors in Scotland

This is definately true. I swear I gained half a social class moving here. And I'm an Essex girl (and sound like one!)

English people really should make an effort to understand this dynamic if they're going to live here.

@Elvesaremagic I'm glad you haven't experienced the flip side of anti English sentiment which I've mentioned. It's not simple at all - a Scottish accent has to be the right one and the less Scottish the better. For example, a Clydebank accent is never going to open the same doors as one from Bearsden. But an English accent will lend immediate advantage especially if used with confidence.
The comments may be xenophobic but the complaints about them sound a wee bit like the complaints men make when women mention that there might be a little bit of inequality in the world !!

My friends mum has lived in scotland fpr 50 years but still has an english accent and she has had some awful things said to her for being english. Yes it is racist or at least xenophobic , I mean everyone who voted brexit was called one or the other and that seemed ok to do.
How are scottish not equal to a english person in this day and age ? I would actually say you have a slightly better deal in some aspects , free prescriptions , free uni etc
Blaming people for things that happened years ago , and i always here how english have such a bad reputation , yet never encountered it abroad or in work where I work across eu, They say we have a small minority but they are sensible to realise this is not the vast minority just a idiotic view and judge people as they meet them.
No country has a great history by todays standards and I am sure my great great nan bringing up her child in a workhouse really had zero say years ago. We have a lot more say to change things now than many previous generations and platforms to express it.

All taxpayers from wherever will be welcome - we have the highest tax rates in uk and still can’t make ends meet so the more the merrier . I know quite a few wealthy Scots already planning their move to England if independence happens so they need to be replaced . However don’t expect Nichola to be in charge - she’ll be off leading a new life leaving goodness knows who to pick up the pieces which will take 30 years or so to put back together again. Hope we can access the English NHS.

I'm sorry that's happened to your friend's mum. Not much detail to go on there so it's impossible to comment, but how about if English people were aware of the issue and talked about it and examined why they have that reputation? There is an unfortunate perception of English people abroad as being incredibly rude and even the joke about " speak louder and slower in English " if you don't speak the language! I know it's not true of everyone. But even the nicest English people can come across as a bit "pushy" if that's not your culture.

@annabelindajane what a load of nonsense, the English NHS is more highly fucked than the Scottish one is on even it's quietest day.

My dad's Scottish. And very left wing and a unionist and is not going to vote indy, but has promised if Scotland goes independence that he won't do anything to stop me claiming a Scottish passport by descent.

My accent is very English, I always get shit from someone when up for holidays or family visits or whatever. I do point out that I am actually a fucking British cunt and not English by anyone's standards, and if things get very hairy I bring up being a Rangers fan so they can be hostile about that instead :)

@kamalasshaman what peer reviewed criteria is that based on?

I read that NHS Scotland and NHS England prioritise differently. Free prescriptions in Scotland but less waiting time for cancer treatment in England.
One thing which I though was good... my English relatives were invited for health screening at age 40 checking for diabetes, cholesterol etc. Early diabetes was picked up. I would support this to be implemented here. Prevention always better than cure. We have bowel cancer screening at 50yrs, but England 60yrs.

[quote kamalasshaman]@annabelindajane what a load of nonsense, the English NHS is more highly fucked than the Scottish one is on even it's quietest day.[/quote]
Yes but lots of Scots attend the Royal Marsden for treatment that’s not available in Scotland . Doubt if that treatment will be available in an independent Scotland for many years

English NHS may by fucked, but the Scottish NHS, trying to survive off a budget totally fucked by the government spending £2k a year more than they receive in revenue per person - that will be more fucked than you can ever believe.

Addressing these issues up front will persuade people to believe in independence. Ignoring them and instead concentrating on talking about the English in a negative way will not.

@Elvesaremagic there really isn't a huge point in discussing what finances will look like on here as I've said before, the figures are completely mired in speculation and tax issues which can't be unpicked and just descend into he said she said. Nobody on either side has concrete figures.
@annabelindajane I imagine we will be able to buy care in the Royal Marsden just as people from the border counties of England buy care in Scotland at present. The two systems are entirely separate, the Scottish NHS is one national system with health boards and the English system is composed of trusts which buy in to each other. ( not exactly but that's a simple picture)
That's why there can be criticism of the two systems versus each other, they aren't UK wide.

Happy to talk tax. It’s my job. I do it all day long. The last presentation I went to from Revenue a Scotland said it all. No ideas. But they have very few options. Put the taxes of the highest earners up and those highest earners will be off like a shot (if they weren’t already!). In 2014 the white paper from independence relied heavily on oil receipts being £110 a barrel. Last time I checked oil is £35 a barrel. The lies told by the SNP are just appalling.

@Elvesaremagic when my sisters friend went to the same presentation on the anonymous Internet forum where I could say anything I wanted to that's exactly what she said they said

@Elvesaremagic

Happy to talk tax. It’s my job. I do it all day long. The last presentation I went to from Revenue a Scotland said it all. No ideas. But they have very few options. Put the taxes of the highest earners up and those highest earners will be off like a shot (if they weren’t already!). In 2014 the white paper from independence relied heavily on oil receipts being £110 a barrel. Last time I checked oil is £35 a barrel. The lies told by the SNP are just appalling.

That's what worries me, @Elvesaremagic - the sustainability of the future independent Scotland's economy.

I used to trust quite a few SNP politicians and really admired the young intake like Mhairi Black, but then they come out with all their claptrap about gender identity and I think, 'I wouldn't trust you with my gran's safety on a hospital ward'.

So you wonder if they're easily captured by daft ideology in general, and easily swayed by populist rhetoric in other crucial socio-economic areas.

@MoltenLasagne

I love Scotland but if there was a second independence referendum and they voted to leave the union I don't think they'd welcome a load of English moving there. Around/after the last one there was a distinct anti-English sentiment when I travelled up for work and I didn't feel welcome. Luckily that did seem to fade but I imagine it'll all come back if there's a second one.

Yes `I agree - NS won't be wanting any of our English neighbours in Scotland and it is absolutely appalling in my opinion.

I'm thinking of moving to England if we become independent.

Why would she not?

NS won't be wanting any of our English neighbours in Scotland and it is absolutely appalling in my opinion

This is rubbish. What an idiotic thing to say.

I feel pretty certain that Scotland will welcome incoming tax payers regardless of nationality creed or colour. It won’t have much choice.
I’m not a dyed in the wool unionist. I’m a federalist if anything. But I deplore mindless nationalism that puts independence above all else (and is any country in EU truly independent anyway !) and accepts that it’s fine if we’re poorer for a short or longer period afterwards as being a price worth paying. I’m 100 per cent sure that Scotland could make a go of it (very) long term. But life is short - I don’t want to be massively taxed, poor and worry about my or my children’s healthcare or my pension security in my lifetime in the hope of a glowing future for Scots of the future... and it will take at least two generations to get us to a kind of Scandi socialism .
The thing is that COVID is a real game changer - even more than Brexit. We’re still in the midst of it so I don’t think people are focussing hard yet on the short and long term consequences. It is and will be financially ruinous. We need England and it’s tax revenues for the foreseeable if we want anything approaching a workable health service, education etc. The idea that the whisky industry ( massively under the cosh due to COVID and US tariffs etc) and the like can compensate for the benefits y tv hat accrue to us from being part of the U.K. is ludicrous.

NS has gone out of her way to say that English people are welcome and would remain welcome and to give people who express anti English sentiment and engage in related acts a bollocking so that doesn't seem true to me.

Some of the more hard core indy supporters want to be out of the UK AND out of the EU. Only that is true independence to them.