If the SNP win a referendum on Scottish independence, what do you think the criteria will be for moving there and getting a Scottish passport?

[Kendodd]

I'm English, live in England but love Scotland. If they became independent I would definitely want to move there if at all possible (if they let me). What do you think the rules would be for moving there and citizenship?

@EvelynBeatrice

Suspect they will welcome any taxpayer. Less than half the existing Scottish population of 5.5 million pay tax at all and only 8per cent or so pay higher rate tax (and remember tax rates are already higher here). The Scottish economy will lose existing access to England’s tax take which is a huge loss. I’m always staggered when I remember that there are over 9 million people in Greater London alone, so Scotland’s tax base is comparatively tiny. Immigration will be essential I’d think.

You do know that its the same in England, half the population are tax payers. But, in Scotland you pay higher taxes only if you’re in the highest bands. Those under higher rates pay less here.

@EvelynBeatrice probably a higher per capita proportion of tax payers in Scotland than in London I would imagine!!!!

@Travelledtheworld

Criteria. EU citizen Be born in Scotland Married to or Civil partner or children of a parent born in Scotland. Possess Specific work skills

Well, that's me getting chucked out come the revolution, then, despite having lived, worked, and paid tax in Scotland since 2006. And DH (he may have specific work skills, depending on how academics are classed, though his area probably wouldn't be classed as Scottish enough). DS is probably safe as he was born here and is ginger but at 9 I think he'd probably want to stay with us. Though he doesn't sound Scottish unless he's trying, so not 100% sure. And my parents, who don't even work and moved up a couple of years ago to be nearer to us. Better start looking at moving ourselves!

Re tax I see what you mean now pp.

Not a sheep, don't be so ridiculous.

A job that will pay taxes in Scotland.

Scotland is beautiful and so much less crowded than England. And it's nice and cool up here. But there are some downsides - eg the education system isn't great, and the government is very very very woke, and is doing scary things to restrict freedom of speech, etc. The government isn't set in stone, admittedly. I do worry about the economic consequences of independence.
Estonia is an astonishing place - they joined the EU at lightening speed, considering their past. They have one of the top education systems in the world, which is what Scotland arguably once had and decided to get rid of.

Lets hope if anyone has learned anything from brexit that it is laid out what independence means and if plan is to go back in the eu a realistic timeframe that can be achieved , so everyone knows what they are voting for.

I personally (MY OWN OPINION) would be people born here or resident here for 5 years.

Scotland spends approx £2,000 per person more than it takes in taxes every year. UK government balances Scotland’s books for it. Think about that. Think very carefully. How is an independent Scotland going to cut 1/7th of its entire budget? Cut 1/7th of the NHS bill, the benefits, pensions and education all at the same time? Try to wring more money from the very few higher rate taxpayers at a time when many businesses will be heading south. Try raising £2,000 in tax from every man, woman and child. It’s all very well believing the SNP’s nice dreams about sunlit uplands, but they are about as honest as Jacob Rees Mogg was about Brexit. There are many people who would happily live in poverty in an independent Scotland, just as Brexiteers don’t mind the situation we are in now because of ‘sovereignty’. Vote however you like but please don’t believe the lies because the reality will be very very different.

Can you link us to the stats on that?

@Fencil

Scotland is beautiful and so much less crowded than England. And it's nice and cool up here. But there are some downsides - eg the education system isn't great, and the government is very very very woke, and is doing scary things to restrict freedom of speech, etc. The government isn't set in stone, admittedly. I do worry about the economic consequences of independence. Estonia is an astonishing place - they joined the EU at lightening speed, considering their past. They have one of the top education systems in the world, which is what Scotland arguably once had and decided to get rid of.

Actually their curriculum is very similar to our CfE.

Ah @Fencil I see you are well informed by the UK government. What a coincidence to find you here on Scotsnet! In fact has there not been a unit just set up this weekend by the Tory advisor "sonic" who is keen to promote the concept of the SNP as "woke". Something we have never heard before today. And we are to be reminded how diverse the UK cabinet is !!!! That's ok you can keep Priti

And the next person who says that Scotland has a terrible education system can you please find a statement to reflect that from the OECD. They endorsed CfE just last year.

I hope it works like Ireland. I can have irish citizenship because of my grandparents (my children can't as I dosnt file for it before they were born). My dad was scottish so hopefully it would automatically allow me citizenship and in turn my children due to scottish grandparent.

It's not going to happen. The referendum was meant to be a once in a life time occurrence. Nicola sturgeon can't keep holding elections until she gets the result she wants.

Gladly back up with numbers. Scottish government’s own stats - GERS. 2019-20 revenue per person £12,058, expenditure £14,829. www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-gers-2019-20/

That’s including oil revenue.

@Kendodd

I'm English, live in England but love Scotland. If they became independent I would definitely want to move there if at all possible (if they let me). What do you think the rules would be for moving there and citizenship?

I’ll happily swap with you..once you actually see the state of our education and NHS I suspect you’d want to be back down the road asap.

The grass isn’t greener on this side of the border, honestly it isn’t.

My understanding of the taxpayer statistics comes from the Institute for Fiscal Studies publications. I may be a little out of date - I looked at a few independent resources at the time of the first independence referendum. Someone commented incredulously about my statement above that less than half pay tax - that’s not unusual - bear in mind the retired and children - and that’s one good reason for welcoming incoming Immigrant taxpayers.
The main concern I have which the IFS and others have also flagged is the far fewer number of high earners in Scotland to support the tax burden. In a way that’s good - there is less inequality- but we do need that tax revenue to replace all we’ll lose post independence and I just don’t see it there. One big issue is that you can’t assume that the 6-8% who are higher rate taxpayers will be prepared to stay and pay more - the info suggests that - under exception of those who work for the public sector and are therefore also taking from the public purse (!) - they are the most ‘mobile’ in terms of being able to live and work in England or elsewhere. It’s a difficult balance and that’s why the Scottish government have been so careful not to raise the Scottish higher rate band higher than they think will be palatable to those paying it. Additionally it seems likely that tax rates for all taxpayers - not just high earners - would have to rise substantially to help support the post independence deficit particularly following COVID.

@Elvesaremagic

That’s including oil revenue.

It also includes revenue spent by the U.K. gov on Scotland’s behalf. The Scottish gov is given a block grant (about 2/3 of the revenue sent down) and must stay within budget. The U.K. gov can attribute U.K. wide spending on behalf of Scotland. Due to this there are some strange anomalies such as everyone in Scotland paying more per head than anywhere else in the U.K. Also, what is spent on Scotland’s behalf is not necessarily what an independent gov would chose to spend on

@kamalasshaman

And the next person who says that Scotland has a terrible education system can you please find a statement to reflect that from the OECD. They endorsed CfE just last year.

Actually CfE is a good concept- unfortunately the delivery of it is a shambles. www.heraldscotland.com/news/18720995.analysis-scotlands-education-system-failing-covid-made-worse/

PISA results
www.holyrood.com/news/view,pisa-scottish-schools-performance-in-maths-and-science-at-record-low_14818.htm

Should say more spent per head on defence

Anybody who says that the Scottish government isn't woke either doesn't live here (unlike me, for example) or is lying. Heard of the Scottish Hate Crime Bill?
From the BBC, here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53580326

Just one gem: "the Scottish Police Federation has warned that the proposals would force officers to "police what people think or feel" which it says would "devastate the legitimacy of the police in the eyes of the public"."

@Fencil twitter.com/johnspringford/status/1353103962514337793?s=21
Nobody cares about woke in Scotland it's not even a thing and never has been. A few good points here. Happy to be called woke though if it means I'm not a Tory.

Children in Estonia are pushed hard and do a LOT of homework. I was told that when I visited Estonia, and the Estonian Minister of Education repeats it in this BBC interview about why Estonia does so well in world rankings:
"So what we have today is a tradition to study a lot, a little bit like Asian countries. We study for many many hours."
That means a lively and continuing debate among parents about whether there is too much homework."
My DC who is nearing the end of school in Scotland has had almost no homework, for the duration. Until the senior years, school has been very relaxed.