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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

No More Tiers (Enough is Enough)

980 replies

WaxOnFeckOff · 18/01/2021 15:24

Here it is - thread 365 - was getting too twitchy....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/01/2021 08:05

But a mention of it has set off 20 angry posts. Do you not see this is getting people more anxious and stressed for no reason? This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy on MN. Be pissed off by all means, but being pissed off about half-truths and rumours is good for no-one's mental health. I think things are tough enough without this.

Lockdownbear · 25/01/2021 08:08

Daft question how do you spell 'row' as in argument, rowdy?

Lockdownbear · 25/01/2021 08:13

Its not no reason he mentioned they were thinking about it. He's the one who put the idea into folks heads. We didn't just make it up. It's the typical way they do stuff, drop an idea on a Sunday, give the papers something to print on Monday and watch the explosion and decide on Tuesday if it's a good idea or not.
Maybe I'm a cynic?

WouldBeGood · 25/01/2021 08:13

@trolltrollingsheep I will not be wearing some other type of mask. So there my compliance will end. Like others, I very much struggle with any mask and just not doing more.

It’s pretty bloody obvious now that masks don't work, surgical ones in hospital are specially fitted and tested on the wearer. There is absolutely no evidence of spread in shops in any event. It’s just another effort to be seen to do something.

Once this first group is vaccinated there’s no need for any of this anyway. Back to the old normal ASAP.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/01/2021 08:13

Just like you've got it, row Smile

WouldBeGood · 25/01/2021 08:14

It’s not a half truth or rumour. He floated it, as @Lockdownbear said, to gauge public opinion. So I am happy to chip in on that

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/01/2021 08:16

@Lockdownbear

Its not no reason he mentioned they were thinking about it. He's the one who put the idea into folks heads. We didn't just make it up. It's the typical way they do stuff, drop an idea on a Sunday, give the papers something to print on Monday and watch the explosion and decide on Tuesday if it's a good idea or not. Maybe I'm a cynic?
He answered it because he was asked it. Other governments are doing it based on evidence and yet hear we find ourselves back at 'Nic would do anything to be different to Boris' etc etc.

Anyway that's off my point a bit, my point is I think it's wrong to state that someone said something that they demonstrably have not. Because everyone who came after you believed you and is now worrying about cost etc. It's not really fair to pass it off as fact.

RaspberryCoulis · 25/01/2021 08:17

An eyeroll is all that's needed to the SNP banging on about another referendum.

Agree that the shift to working at home is going to be permanent for a lot of people, or at least a mix of working half and half. DH is going in only one day a week. The charity I volunteer with ended its lease on offices in Glasgow which is now To Let, a friend who works in a large 6 storey building in town says they are consolidating staff into 3 floors and working out what to do with the other 3 floors - not unusual.

We had a walk through Glasgow yesterday and Barclays are building two massive blocks by the Clyde, are they ever going to be filled? On the flip side, lots of the buildings were originally residential and can be turned back into residential, get people back into the city centre blocks - mixed accommodation with retail, office and people living.

RaspberryCoulis · 25/01/2021 08:21

Oh and on the masks - fuck off with that. It's bad enough wearing the ones we have at the moment, and in the supermarket I'm yet to be convinced they make one iota of difference.

Like others I have a few of the very cheap blue and white paper ones, certainly don't wear it once and chuck it. There is NO WAY i'm shelling out for higher grade PPE to get groceries in Asda. Fucking ridiculous. And how are they planning to enforce this? From the start we have been told a FACE COVERING which covers your nose and mouth. Snood, scarf, mask, whatever.

WouldBeGood · 25/01/2021 08:23

I think NS and Boris have done almost exactly the same. Apart from some weird tweaks like pub music. All completely hopeless.

WouldBeGood · 25/01/2021 08:25

The mask thing was in the papers and Twitter at the weekend after the interview inews.co.uk/news/scotland/shoppers-wear-medical-grade-masks-scotland-842638

Lockdownbear · 25/01/2021 08:25

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

Just like you've got it, row Smile
ThankyouSmile Every time I write it I read it back like row, row a boat. Why is English so full of words like that?? I did similar with live, I was writing something about live cables and every time I read it back I got live, as in work to live. I felt like a right dafty when I asked my colleagues.Grin
Lockdownbear · 25/01/2021 08:29

@WouldBeGood

I think NS and Boris have done almost exactly the same. Apart from some weird tweaks like pub music. All completely hopeless.
Yip listen to them both, read between the lines and you'll get the picture. Furlough was extended to April, any sign of that getting extended again? That's another good indicator of time scales.
Aurea · 25/01/2021 08:36

From The Tines this morning. 😱

Tens of thousands of pupils may have to repeat an entire academic year if coronavirus restrictions continue to disrupt their education.

Under a worst-case scenario being considered by Scottish officials, all exams and assessments would be put on hold and pupils asked to retake classes.

This summer’s exams have already been scrapped but cancelling the award of the qualifications would be another blow for pupils, with consequences for families, higher education establishments and employers.

The Scottish Qualifications Authority said that it was working through “a range of scenarios and is considering further flexibilities” after a report in the Scottish Mail on Sunday.

With pupils of all ages being home-schooled, John Swinney, Scotland’s education secretary, said that priority was being given to the return of S4 to S6 pupils, who face exam assessments this summer, along with children with special educational needs.

He added that a phased return was likely, though he gave no indication of when the process would begin.

“We are exploring the merits of early learning and childcare and some of the younger primary aged groups returning at an earlier stage than other pupils,” he told the BBC.

“The needs of S4 to S6 pupils facing assessment on national qualifications were being considered, along with the requirements of youngsters with learning support needs, he added.

“These are likely to be the groups which we consider first and we will give as much notice as possible about the timescales that can be put in place.”

SPONSORED

The safety of pupils and staff would be a primary concern, he added.

Mr Swinney was speaking after research by the Herald on Sunday showed patchy provision of online teaching in Scotland.

Of the 27 councils which responded to questions about the extent of daily live online lessons, nine indicated that all schools were providing it.

Orkney council said that live lessons were limited because of poor connectivity and on Shetland teaching was “optional”. Edinburgh city council said that not all schools were being offered live daily lessons.

Aberdeen city council said it was unlikely that live lessons were offered every day “across all subject areas”, while Midlothian council said that the “vast majority” were holding live sessions, and more are starting next week.

Scottish Borders, North Ayrshire, and Angus councils could not be sure whether all the schools in their area were getting live online teaching every day.

The local authorities that said that all their schools were offering daily live lessons include West Lothian, Fife, Moray, Renfrewshire, Stirling, Comhairle nan Eilean Siar and Inverclyde.

West Dunbartonshire council loaned more than 2,000 Chromebooks to families to support home schooling while ensuring all schools provided daily online lessons. The council said that schools were timetabling five hours of online teaching per day, which includes a mix of live and pre-recorded lessons for pupils.

None of the councils that responded was able to say they had set a standard time for live online classes or were able to lay out how long pupils were getting with their teachers online.

Lindsay Paterson, professor of education policy at the University of Edinburgh’s School of Social and Political Science, said that general standards were required for remote teaching. To try to ensure some common standards, the Scottish government should be setting minimum standards. They might reply that it is up to individual local authorities, but setting minimum standards would not stop individual authorities from going beyond these.”

Evidence showed that for online teaching to be effective, there had to be regular, live full-class teaching, with interactive opportunities between pupil and teacher, including regular one-to-one live conversations between the teachers and pupils, he added.

Teachers are undervalued

Scotland’s biggest teaching union has accused the Scottish government of putting the Holyrood elections before classroom safety.

Larry Flanagan, general secretary of the Educational Institute of Scotland, said that ministers had “no empathy” with teachers and that they felt “undervalued, particularly by government and the political class.”

He told the Herald on Sunday: “Most [teachers] have been living on the edge and torn between the desire to do their best for students but also knowing they’re at risk on a daily basis. A lot feel undervalued, particularly by government and the political class. It can be a demoralising experience. We’ve said directly to government . . . that it’s shown a distant lack of empathy with the challenges that have existed in schools, as if there are no issues to be concerned about. They’ve underplayed teacher concerns.”

Ms Sturgeon had “an eye on the political optics as much as anything else” he said. “The Scottish government said ‘the risk to teenagers is no greater than to adults’. Fine, but there’s quite a high risk to adults.”

Mr Flanagan, who sits on the Covid Education Recovery Group, raised concerns about the decision to keep schools open until December. “At the time we were calling for a ‘firebreak’ while the government and local authorities were saying ‘no’, but looking back at the data for the period it shows that school infections had reached their highest peak in all age groups since the pandemic started.”

The Scottish government said its “top priority” was the health and safety of pupils, staff and teachers, adding that: “The current lockdown demonstrates that commitment to keeping people safe.”

RaspberryCoulis · 25/01/2021 08:40

Well my S6 is already holding one unconditional and expecting to hear from his other choices after the UCAS extended deadline passes at the end of the week.

So if Mr Swinney would personally like to pop round and tell someone who is 18 in a few weeks why he needs to go back to school in August he's very welcome.

anon444877 · 25/01/2021 08:45

repeating a year should be on the table by mutual agreement for cases where the parents, student and teachers think it's in the student's best interest - if someone is able to progress without repetition, clearly that makes no sense. All of this is so much more important than another divisive referendum.

I don't understand why we have so many choices these days but choice in education is so very limited. My younger DC repeated a year and it was absolutely the right thing for her, but for my elder one it would be utterly pointless. One size doesn't fit all and never has.

oh look the 3rd Monday of home school - I am struggling to find any optimism today, another week of all of us being totally overwhelmed. Happy Burns Night!

rookie the photo of your beautiful retriever eating the snowball was gorgeous.

rookiemere · 25/01/2021 08:48

Thank you @anon444877 . Rookiedog is somewhat in the bad books since yesterday's deers on the golf club incident Blush. But he is cute to make up for it.

RaspberryCoulis · 25/01/2021 08:51

I know of a couple of children who repeated a year at Primary - they were in the group which could have potentially been deferred but their parents decided against it, then it got to P3 or P4 and it was decided that they would be better off repeating.

Both parents had to fight so hard for it though, school were not keen. The logistics of some repeating, some moving on would be horrendous for schools.

WouldBeGood · 25/01/2021 08:55

If he’s talking about repeating years then it’s obvious this online learning isn’t as great as he keeps telling us it is. More cognitive dissonance..

My child will not be repeating a year

NotAnActualSheep · 25/01/2021 08:59

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

But a mention of it has set off 20 angry posts. Do you not see this is getting people more anxious and stressed for no reason? This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy on MN. Be pissed off by all means, but being pissed off about half-truths and rumours is good for no-one's mental health. I think things are tough enough without this.
I don't think it's the people mentioning it that are the problem here! Just when a minister says "they are under serious consideration" or whatever, that's minister speak for "it's likely going to happen in the next month, we're just waiting for the moment to announce it". See also NS saying "we're considering tightening restrictions after Christmas", "we're keeping school closure under consideration", "we're very concerned about travel...please don't travel or we'll be forced to bring in travel restrictions".

I've always been suspicious on the efficacy of masks. I view my fabric masks as a large, permanent hanky. So if I unexpectedly sneeze or cough, it will catch anything better than the crook of my arm. But I don't think it does much else...I mean, if it's making my glasses steam up, it's hardly keeping in small droplets, is it! (And I do wear it "properly" with my nose in, a wire bit round my nose, usually sanitising when putting on/ taking off, and bunging in the wash when home). I assume its the blue surgical ones they are talking about, which are at least waterproof, which may be the issue, and that may make them a bit more effective, possibly, when worn properly. I think I may revolt on that, though. They are horrendously wasteful. I don't use disposable plastic anything else and I'm sure as fuck not going to start with masks. Of course medical grade stuff needs to be single use and disposed correctly after use, but since when is sainsburys or the number 32 a sterile clinical environment?!

anon444877 · 25/01/2021 09:01

You can appreciate the teachers have done their absolute best in most cases whilst still accepting that some children are going to need more hope to recover from the disruption than just carrying on.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/01/2021 09:04

@anon444877 you're so right, there should be more parental choice for their childs' education. I'd never really thought of it that way before.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/01/2021 09:05

I'm not bothered about what type of mask we're asked to wear though, what bothers me is presenting half-truths as fact. To say 'JS says we have to wear special masks' is verifiably dishonest. And so I can only assume was posted to stir up anger/resentment/insert other negative emotion.

shouldistop · 25/01/2021 09:07

How on earth would repeating a year work practically?
Tbh I wouldn't be upset about my 4yo having another year at nursery, he'd love it anyway and he'll have missed out on so much nursery by the time he starts school, I feel he's been robbed a bit.
I just don't see how it would work, especially for school leavers.
For p1 intake they could possibly offer extended maternity leave to offset the number of children going into private nurseries? Scrap the 30 hours that was meant to happen in 2020 and only give 15/16 hours for the pre-schoolers?

MorrisZapp · 25/01/2021 09:07

The mask thing is a total red herring. Our case numbers are falling and so are hospital admissions.

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