Effects of Brexit deal on Scotland

[Justpassingtime1]

Assuming it all goes ahead what are the likely impacts on Scotland?

Edinburgh - 38.9 percent for yes in 2014, so about as pro Indy then as Scotland is pro Brexit, it's a genuineness question - if Scotland isn't building a hard border in this brave new world, why can't Edinburgh and other parts of Scotland choose to remain as part of the UK?

These questions will need answering down the line. Or are we sticking to 19th century definitions of the nation state? Why?

I don't think we have all the answers we need to made these decisions yet.

@Outsidemum1

Yes. Also, for me, the fact the UK Ministers appeared to have gone somewhere on holiday with no wi fi for most of the pandemic.

I thought this was a Brexit impact on Scotland thread?

Straying off topic somewhat, into the pesky U.K. England comments. Reminds me of a certain daily ‘McCovid’ broadcast which sometimes strays into this territory too...

Obviously another referendum is required so we can get an accurate picture of what the majority of people in Scotland want.

But independence is a likely consequence of Brexit...

@anon444877

Edinburgh - 38.9 percent for yes in 2014, so about as pro Indy then as Scotland is pro Brexit, it's a genuineness question - if Scotland isn't building a hard border in this brave new world, why can't Edinburgh and other parts of Scotland choose to remain as part of the UK?

These questions will need answering down the line. Or are we sticking to 19th century definitions of the nation state? Why?

I don't think we have all the answers we need to made these decisions yet.

Do you honestly see the 19th century definition of the nation state being up for grabs? I think you're reaching just a bit here.

Annon You realise that, like Brexit, the UK Government 's 2014 Union campaign was built on a bed of lies? Also, things change. The public were told that a no vote equals staying in the eu. I'm not sure why people are so against another vote. We've had several general elections in recent times.

Personally I think that being in Europe or out of Europe isn't something people spend much time thinking about. Yes the middle class chattering classes might discuss it, but there are bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Freight keeps flowing, minor inconvenience with passports, going through the green channel at customs rather than the blue channel. That's pretty much all it means to the average Joe.

I voted remain, I'd rather we were still in, but it's not something I'm lying in bed fretting about. The SNP banging on about leaving a light on for Scotland - a year or so down the line when the sky hasn't fallen in and life is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, it's a non-issue for most people.

@Outsidemum1, because instead the yes campaign was "the gospel truth, and may God strike me down if it isn't"...

The bottom line is no-one knows what the impact of Brexit will be, and how things will pan out with the new deal now that we have left the EU. Likewise, the state of Scotland, the UK and the EU after the COVID dust has settled, economically and otherwise, is currently unknowable. We don't know how the UK and EU will fare in relative terms. These questions require time to answer.

We are out of the EU now and the only way to be an EU member is to start to joining process as a new state, so there is no reason for urgency in considering this and no reason not to take some time to see where the land lies first. It's likely joining as an independent state would take years as certain economic criteria need to be met first, and I can't see a bureaucratic juggernaught like the EU waiving any procedures just to stick it to Boris, especially after their experiences with Greece etc. So in all likelihood an independent Scotland would be out of both the UK and the EU for a considerable length of time, and for this reason alone we should have as much info as possible and not take a leap of faith at one of the most unstable times in decades. Indeed, while there is clearly support for independence, I believe polling suggests most people would prefer to let the dust settle before revisiting this. If the arguments for an independent Scotland are indeed strong and robust, they still will be in a few years time, so we really should give this the careful consideration that such a big decision deserves.

I do note though from Nicola Sturgeon's twitter feed as well as the anti-Brexit/pro-independence video posted (against impartiality rules) on the ScotGov account (not to mention the turn that this thread has taken) that the plan before May seems to be to milk Brexit outrage for all its worth and aggressively peddle the myth that Scotland can easily and quickly rejoin if only we vote for independence. It seems we won't get even a moment's peace before the next big constitutional argument is foisted upon us.

@RaspberryCoulis

Personally I think that being in Europe or out of Europe isn't something people spend much time thinking about. Yes the middle class chattering classes might discuss it, but there are bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Freight keeps flowing, minor inconvenience with passports, going through the green channel at customs rather than the blue channel. That's pretty much all it means to the average Joe.

I voted remain, I'd rather we were still in, but it's not something I'm lying in bed fretting about. The SNP banging on about leaving a light on for Scotland - a year or so down the line when the sky hasn't fallen in and life is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, it's a non-issue for most people.

I disagree. The way I see Brexit, things will be worse here for a bloody long time. And when things are bad, the thing that helps you is money. Money cushions a period of unemployment, it cushes earning less than you would have before. It just makes life easier.

And without money, life is harder. And leaving the EU will make life harder for a lot of us and without the cushion of money too.

I feel those saying Brexit will be ok, look on the bright side etc etc are looking at it from the viewpoint of life will be ok, because money is there.

And others like me are worried, more for my kids futures than mine. Because they dont have inheritances to fall back on from non council house grandparents, or parents with good jobs who can support them easily.

That's why I'm angry, my kids have it hard enough. they didn't need this

@ssd, where is the EU money tree? I never knew there was one. This must be why there is so much poverty in Glasgow, and in Govan of all places; people were not told about it.

Genuinely, how do you think brexit will leave your kids short of money in the future? I voted remain, just to be clear.

I feel independence is urgently needed for Scotland, sooner rather than later. I can't even imagine what good you think will or can come of continuing to be chained to WM with the Conservatives and their huge majority there. We in Scotland do not vote Tory, we don't want what they want. We need to be able to exercise our own democratic will. We need to be able to have some self respect. It would be really wonderful to be able to make our own decisions as a country. Why on earth would we wait?

People in the countryside are certainly worried about the impact on the rural economy and I think this will be a big factor in the elections. The Scottish conservatives will need to pull something fairly amazing out of the bag to keep Douglas in his seat. When you hear staunch old farmers backing independence as a result of Brexit, time to realise these things are fairly inseparable and this thread reflects that.

I am devastated about Brexit, but it has happened. I do think we need some stability now to weather Covid and recovery from it - I dont think now is the time for more constitutional upheaval. Boris won't be PM forever and shouldn't be the reason to take permanent decisions.

I think the Scottish government needs to focus on doing the best it can for its own people for now and put independence on the back burner for a few years until the post Brexit world has settled down and we know what we are dealing with. Like a previous poster, I think the SNP have been woeful on education, particul arly their treatment of FE colleges, which Mike Russell seemed to hate and defunded catastrophically in order to keep the fee free HE promise.

Let us look again at the larger constitutional picture when we have moved on from Covid. But I would be cautious about leaving the UK, which I think would be worse for Scotland than leaving the EU - I would prefer to push for closer links with the EU for the UK as a whole including Schengen.

Perhaps give credit to the author of that article. It’s unfair to lift it without credit.

Head North no one is saying to have a referendum during the pandemic. Have you not seen the FM work nearly every day on covid related issues?
RE your last sentence, that will never happen.

@HeadNorth you do know Mike Russel hasn't been in charge of education now for quite some time...

Good speech by Mike Russel on Brexit.

@ssd why do you think the EU will give Scotland more money than London does. I find that an extraordinary POV. And that is from a remainer.

Ps I am married to a Dutch man and he said the exact same. Why on earth would EU bankroll Scotland when they are being bankrolled currently by London.

[quote Soooh]@ssd why do you think the EU will give Scotland more money than London does. I find that an extraordinary POV. And that is from a remainer.[/quote]
You have misunderstood me.
I didn't say Scotland would have to get more money.
I was talking from a personal perspective, saying Brexit will make harder the lives of those without the cushion of money.

@MorrisZapp

Genuinely, how do you think brexit will leave your kids short of money in the future? I voted remain, just to be clear.

I believe Brexit will lessen their employment chances.

@Soooh

Ps I am married to a Dutch man and he said the exact same. Why on earth would EU bankroll Scotland when they are being bankrolled currently by London.

Huh?