Effects of Brexit deal on Scotland

[Justpassingtime1]

Assuming it all goes ahead what are the likely impacts on Scotland?

You are more than welcome to check my posting history.

I have no idea what you're saying about arkadia. Someone impersonating her is absolutely not relevant to this thread or the fact I have name changed.

Curiouser and curiouser.

@Soooh yes, totally agree. I watched some of the debate and I’m a frequent listener to both PMQs and FMQs. Thanks to COVID and working from home now, I’ve never listened to so much political debate.

I wish I could remember more about fisheries policy, I did study it at uni but that was probably long enough ago for it to not be particularly relevant in 2021!

@Viewfromtheisland and @anon444877 I voted remain too. Just don’t get how going back into the EU is BETTER for Scottish fishermen. Genuinely don’t get that. I know we didn’t get all we wanted but surely that always happens in a negotiation. You win some you lose some. In this case we did win a bit more. Not as much as we wanted but a bit more. Did the Scottish fishermen not get any of that gain? And if they did surely they will lose it again if back in the EU. I am afraid Nicola is using Brexit now for her independence push but I sometimes feel that with all the massive (some would say obsessed) focus on independence the SNP sometimes lose sight of the bigger picture.

Hopefully the effects of Brexit on Scotland are an independent Scotland back in the EU.

@JustLikeStitch I am married to a Dutchman and he said something interesting to me this morning. Why would the EU want to pay for Scotland when London is doing it now. I genuinely don’t know the answer to that either :-(

It was relevant as Arkadia was the other person to comment about posting history and I was saying I can understand why.

My beef with your post wasn't personal, I was trying to be positive about something I didn't vote for in the hope that others would feel the same way and try to get what can be got from the situation and your post quoting mine came across to me that people shouldn't try to make it work and I saw that as immature and cutting of your nose to spite your face. If that's not what you meant then I apologise.

You then made accusations that I was getting at you personally and comments about something I always do. I don't know who you are so checked your posting history.

Sooooo...

I think the fishing position is that:

our fishermen/women used to have quota. That’s like an entitlement to catch x amount of a certain type of fish. Different types of fish have different quota and you get allocated it. I think it’s to make sure there are enough fish not caught so supply is plentiful and they don’t go extinct kind of thing.

So you might be allocated lots of quota for a fish you don’t catch and hardly any quota for the fish which are plentiful that you need to land to make profit.

So the answer is to swap your quota for that fish you don’t want for someone else’s unwanted quota for the one you catch lots of.

So you swap and then you can legally can catch lots of what you need and the other person can catch lots of what they need. Job done. Both happy. (Or you can lease your quota out, and get money for it, that you then use to lease in someone else’s unwanted quota, ie either way you achieve the same thing, more quota to get more fish).

But the new rules say no swapping or leasing with the eu countries.

So it means you are stuck with less entitlement to the fish you want. So you have to catch less and make less profit. So you have to hope someone here wants to do a swap/lease with you.

But will the EU want Scotland?

@osprey24 that is exactly what my Dutch husband said to me this morning. I genuinely want to understand this.

Arkadia was impersonated so she is now has the right to police other posters who aren't impersonating her and just offering their opinion? Okay then

You swore at me and were unnecessarily rude. I would appreciate it if you didn't reply to me again just like you said you would several posts ago. An important thread is being derailed with paranoid nonsense.

@Elieza thanks for the explanation. Am getting my head around it. So what that says is that Scottish fishermen / women can’t swap quotas with EU countries anymore for the fish they want. So even if their quota is LESS in the EU that is outweighed by the deals they can do with that quota.

I’m not doubting there was an element of nationalism associated with the vote, but nearly 40% of Scottish voters also voted leave, that’s not a tiny minority.

I just thought the Scottish fishermen caught things that other EU countries then bought. Eg they didn’t swap the quotas for the fish the U.K. didn’t want. They simply caught their quota and sold it on. But I really don’t know so appreciate this debate!

I sympathise with the emotional pull of feeling European but I don't see that the solution at this point is an upfront commitment to an ideology-driven return to an EU polity facing many challenges over the next 10 years when it's not clear we can meet the fiscal or monetary criteria or that by the point Scotland is ready to rejoin that it'll be in fact a good plan for Scotland.

I don't think the right course is to meet nationalism with more nationalism and tie ourselves into rejoining the EU at any price without doing some rational analysis at every stage and after the covid and brexit dust has settled.

@osprey24 and @Soooh. Would an independent Scotland meet the criteria?

@anon444877 I have high sympathy for that position. It needs a rational analysis and I think that can only be done when the dust has settled. I do think Nicola is being very rash lashing out now for independence with the assumption that Scotland will be allowed to rejoin the EU and when it does it will be better for Scotland. Maybe it will be - but not sure now is the time to judge that.

@Elieza, that is interesting, thanks. Didn't know any of that.
But why would it be more difficult now? If you still have to agree with nation X to do a swap you are not really worse off, and why would country X make it more difficult if it is in their interest to swap?
The countries involved are going to be Denmark, Sweden and Ireland I would imagine. Perhaps the Netherlands. It is in everybody's interest to keep things running smoothly, isn't it?

@JustLikeStitch

Hopefully the effects of Brexit on Scotland are an independent Scotland back in the EU.

I agree

I'm trying to be positive about leaving the EU but right now I see no positives in it. Ds benefited from erasmus 2 years ago and now that's fucked . I cant imagine another system being as good an opportunity for low earners like our family. So looks like ds2 wont go this year.

Anyway, am enjoying this lively debate. I'm not as clued up as some here but its interesting to see all comments.

My hope is for an independent Scotland with a strong labour government.

I wish I understood all the fishing and farming stuff better and these posts are very helpful.

I just really struggle with all the intelligent, informed and highly educated people I see (on Twitter mostly to be fair) who think this is a shocking act of self harm. I don't profess to understand the ins and outs but I have still not heard a real benefit to this.

I feel the same kurt.

@anon444877 couldn’t agree more, a little bit of reflection would be good.

@ssd same except I'm hoping for greens! 🙏🏻

@Soooh I don’t have the answer to that, I would hope that we as a country were able to offer some kind of enhancement to the EU that would be worth them allowing us to rejoin though. Even if it was just the EU’s way of sticking their fingers up to Boris and the tories for the utter mess they’ve made and the hurt they’ve caused