Tiers Of A Clown

[Bytheloch]

Thread #3456

Released from our dirty T4, but still bamboozled. Let’s keep each other sane on here...

Apparently there’s been an error on the Protect app, impacting 900 people who were told to isolate.

Never had the app, never will.

Me neither BytheLoch.

Update on Scottish weekly death stats reported today. Deaths for last week were 40 above 5 year average but below the figure for the corresponding week last year. The Covid tally was 224. Deaths at home (non-Covid) were above the 5 year average by 65 with offsetting below average care home deaths.

This is a continuation of the downward progression back to average over the last 4 weeks. Bit different from the picture of escalating panic media and Govt are spinning.

www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland

I'd be up for some hearty wassailing too, as long as there was some strong alcohol in the offing to keep me warm.

I'm rather worried the Welsh approach of an immediate post-Christmas lockdown will give NS Ideas. I can't see any more guidance yet though. Seems the recommendation now is not to stay overnight unless necessary. Surely no-one's supposed to be doing any bubbling unless necessary anyway, so what does that add to it? Apart from encouraging long return journeys to be made on a single day, in winter weather conditions?

I've got the app, though for some reason it seems to take up increasingly shed loads of memory in my already ancient phone (more than a gigabyte) over a month or so, so I have to delete the data every now and again to stop everything crashing. Which I'm sure kind of defeats the point. Though I thought it was supposed to get rid of "contacts" after 14 days anyway, so not sure why it only ever goes up. I can't have that many contacts made anyway. Wasn't told to isolate anyway, which is nice of it.

I'm still catching up on this, but on the comparability of drug death data across the UK, the claim that the higher level of drug deaths in Scotland can be explained by differences in data reporting has been thoroughly debunked (although is still widely circulated among certain SG-supporting factions) - see here and here.

There may be minor differences in reporting, but not enough to in any way hide the frankly shocking excess in Scotland compared to elsewhere. This explains why NS didn't even try to explain the figures - if there was a data-related explanation I'd guess she'd be shouting it from the roof tops. As for powers, the only thing that SG is unable to do as far as I can see is legally provide drug consumption rooms. All other social/health approaches are completely within their remit, but instead they cut funding for rehabilitation programmes by £15 million.

Also, Edinburgh overtook Glasgow for new cases today. Go us and our disgusting super spreading ways!

Thanks dinnafash! These updates are interesting... I agree, it definitely doesn't seem to be showing the exponential panic everyone is reporting. I'm just not sure what is going on any more...

This is a continuation of the downward progression back to average over the last 4 weeks. Bit different from the picture of escalating panic media and Govt are spinning.

This 👆🏼
If they’ve warned you/telt you now that you’ll kill everyone you meet over the festive period and you still go ahead, you can’t accuse them of negligence at a later date, right? Because they did warn you...🤔

Oh goodness, who thinks at Nicola's office they're all sitting round thinking 'post Christmas lockdown, wonderful idea'...it'll be the Scottish version of slapping tier 4 on all places with rising cases I expect!

From another article on the Ferret "With Scots five times more likely to die from drugs than in a road traffic accident, far more must be done to prevent deaths"

According to the twitterverse should you call the helpline NS just gave out to check on app notification they will say: “We don’t have access to this information so our advice is to make your own judgement call based on whether anyone in your household or your bubble is showing symptoms but it is highly likely this was an error.”

That's interesting youcannot I've not checked snp Twitter recently but I expect it'll all be focusing on the rooms that Westminster is depriving them off - I had read about that and forgotten and the lack of something that has never existed, much as we may all think it's a good strategy, can't be the explanation for why things are so much worse now.

I see Wales going back to full lockdown on Christmas Eve

I think shops have to close on Christmas Eve and lockdown starts 28th. According to my panicked Welsh cousin

@Bytheloch

This is a continuation of the downward progression back to average over the last 4 weeks. Bit different from the picture of escalating panic media and Govt are spinning.

This 👆🏼
If they’ve warned you/telt you now that you’ll kill everyone you meet over the festive period and you still go ahead, you can’t accuse them of negligence at a later date, right? Because they did warn you...🤔

Precisely. So if numbers increase after Christmas they'll say "well, we told you they would... not our fault... you should have listened to us" and if they don't it'll be "see, our recommendations were so good and everyone followed them, so we've saved you all". Festive eye roll.

Couldn't run a menage is the phrase that comes to mind.

It's back to the chip on the shoulder, westminster wont let us, attitude.

The saddest thing is that it's people at the bottom that she is promising utopia to and that isn't going to happen, she just wants the votes, we already spend (using westminsters money) more per person and it's still crap at the bottom, we don't provide enough support and ability for people to grow and change their circumstances. We need fairness of opportunity not necessarily equal outcomes.

Equally Shite For All!

It's so hard to argue with people that don't accept that Scotland has higher spending it would struggle to maintain at least in the first 5 years of independence, to be absolutely Panglossian in my optimism.

This is the best we can do with drug deaths despite much higher levels of spending than rUK, terrifying.

@WouldBeGood

Equally Shite For All!

To be honest, despite all my moaning, I can't really complain (covid times aside), I mean I have a pretty decent quality of life, I've been able to give my DC a more enriched upbringing than I had. I'm pretty lucky not to have to rely on the govt for support. Probably a lot more than half the population of the world have a worse life than most of us in this country do.

However, my beef is really with the manipulation/control and the lies and the treatment of those who need the support.

Apparently the Scottish advice re Christmas is now only meet people in your bubble for 1 day, don't stay overnight, and don't even think of coming to Scotland if you're from a tier 3 area, especially London. I really don't think they understand how people live in the Real World.

@anon444877

It's so hard to argue with people that don't accept that Scotland has higher spending it would struggle to maintain at least in the first 5 years of independence, to be absolutely Panglossian in my optimism.

This is the best we can do with drug deaths despite much higher levels of spending than rUK, terrifying.

Yes, I do agree here. It is impossible to argue against a "sunlit uplands" mentality, where people would spend Trident 10 times over and blame any issues we currently have on being held back by the money grabbers at Westminster.

I'm torn on whether there should be another referendum, but accept there probably will be in the next few years. However, I really, really hope that whoever is in charge of "agreeing" it insists beforehand on an agreed, independent statement of how much money there is, how much things would likely cost to set up an independent country, some kind of agreed road map for reentry to the EU if that is sought, and something like a "divorce settlement" / withdrawal agreement with rUK so we're not back to brexit and the £350million on the side of a bus.

Hopefully that would take so long we'd be several years down the road and hopefully with a better UK government by the time its agreed

I also, probably controversially, think that the first election in an independent Scotland would result in a Tartan Conservative win. So we'd replace the tories we didn't vote for with tories we did vote for...

It's a common myth that education leads to social mobility, obviously it does for some people and in our high tech world increasingly so, but what led to so many moving up in the late fifties and sixties was the Labour shortage. You could walk out of one job straight into another if you wanted a change or didnt like your boss, down the labour exchange and find something else. No slipping back and going into debt waiting on UC. There was competition between employers for workers not the other way round.
Its a bit like the misconception that people who end up in trouble with the law have low self esteem and don't care what happens to them. When this was tested it was found that most prisoners have high self esteem, they literally think they are above the law!
Don't know what to do about drugs but whatever it us better have a very robust evidence base and will cost £££
In fact I would like a political party that sells itself mainly on properly researched evidence based policies only, no more experimental ideas and trendy sounds bites please. All the main parties have let me down on this (and the Greens)

Interesting post @Wbeezer

So I know someone who received a text to self isolate on Monday and now they were told to contact a number due to the incorrect information from the app. I presumed when you called the number they'd be able to confirm which people do need to isolate... Apparently not. It is now your decision whether you isolate or not!

Interesting.

Wbeezer That makes a lot of sense.

As a child of the 80s the things I notice is the quality of the Working Class jobs has gone down.
Excluding Construction we don't seem to have the well paid working class jobs any more, engineering, steelworks, mining, even the lighter manufacturing sewing factories, electronics factories etc, they are all gone.

So yes I totally agree work, decent quality work that gets people out of the benefits system is needed.

I have heard the theory that NMW works against low paid workers. With the logic that if companies set their own wages then people would move for 20p an hour more. But that's also where the top up benefits don't help as it would just come off peoples top up benefits so no real incentive to move jobs.

I don't know how they fix it but the idea of throwing money at people isn't helping.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3988
Drug deaths are a UK wide problem. Wales and England are recording their highest ever. Either the UK wide strategy needs changed or the UK Gov need to allow devolve the matter.

Interesting map!
Could it be the lack of wine?
All across Southern Europe they encourage responsible drinking and wine is drunk with meals from a young age. Better weather, less depression, no really dark horrible damp winters.

Yes some parts of Europe get very cold but is manageable who doesn't like a bitter cold frosty sun shining on the grass morning?
It's not as depressing as a rainy dull or even a damp morning.