November Lockdown: Mibbes Aye Mibbes Naw

[BlueThursday]

Thread 3!!!!

Yep. I think the same. But it’s there for us, not the other way round: they’re not doing us a favour

A lot of services are already private or near as dammit. Eyesight, hearing, dentistry etc.

DH was getting a bit obsessed about this heart scan that you can get that basically will diagnose any risk you have from (calcification?) heart issues that would predispose you to a heart attack.

On the NHS heart disease risk will be "diagnosed" by non invasive factors e.g. blood pressure, cholesterol test etc that actually are not necessarily a good way to predict. The only ways to get one of these scans here is to have already suffered a heart attack and survived, or to get one privately at the cost of near £1k.

Having one of these scans earlier in life before having an attack would be enormously beneficial in terms of saving the NHS money (as well as lives)

In the US you can just request one of these from many providers at a cost of about £100.

I am a socialist and I love the free at the point of use service, but I think I'd like to see affordable self referral diagnosis available at a reasonable cost, this would hopefully free up cash to make more services available for all.

I sort of justify this in the same way as private schools. The parents are still paying into the state school system by tax, just also paying on top. So people would still be paying for the NHS and not queue jumping, but just paying a bit on top that's more reasonable than the current private system.

I dunno really, the current system definitely isn't working properly.

@WaxOnFeckOff that makes total sense.

In Europe it’s a mixed system. Seems to work well.

Makes sense to me too - my brother died from undiagnosed heart disease.

And my DD is in private school too, so shoot me !

I'd really like to see the availability of a full health check for all at key ages. They could make it affordable but then double it (or something) so that every person paying for it made an appointment available to someone else on the NHS list for free. So maybe something like a 1 hour health check including basic standard tests for things like diabetes, heart disease etc for £250, doubled to £500 and someone else gets a free full health check. Maybe at age 45 then 55 or 50 and 60 - I'm clearly not a Dr but I am sure someone could work out the best ages to do that at.

@StatisticallyChallenged, at one point in my life (when i was young and more hot headed :o ) I would have been annoyed but actually can you imagine the school system in Edinburgh if all those currently in private came into the state system!?

As I say, you are paying twice, that's nothing to apologise for. If I had had the money I might have done similar. I think it would have done wonders for my DSs confidence, more so in primary for one and high school for the other.

Edinburgh school system is already at breaking point, and actually particularly in areas where a lot of kids go private - schools like Stockbridge, Morningside etc are bursting at the seams with few options for expansion or new schools (I know there's the Canaan Lane one supposedly happening). Imagine if all the kids from those areas suddenly needed a state education. Utter carnage!

DD was at state until last year but she was being bullied and the school just weren't teaching her properly. She's like a different child since we moved her - definitely more confident, more keen to learn...it's bloody expensive and shouldn't be necessary but sadly it was.

WaxOn - I think I'm from a similar background to you, and am a socialist at heart, and believe in "free at point of use" healthcare, but I'd pay for a health check. I can afford it, and it fits with my wanting to look after myself, but also if it would help free up NHS time and funds for people who need it more

DS1 was bullied at primary and at age 20 we are still dealing with the fall out. We managed to get a place out of catchment and he never had any further issues with bullying. In some ways he fell through the cracks though and multiple fuck ups happened and I don't think he got the support he should have. However, he was quiet (too quiet), well behaved and academic and had a nice group of friends so in some ways I can see why it happened. He did and is still doing really well academically but has no confidence. I think i've also mollycoddled him too much. If we hadn't moved him out of catchment, maybe he would have got more support, I don't know and we can't turn the clock back. the thought of sending him with a target already on his back to the catchment school was more horrifying.

I really don't know what the answer is to bullying but whatever most schools are doing doesn't seem to work.

I'm not blaming the schools though, they didn't create the behaviour, but it's usually there that it is being carried out and I've not yet heard of anywhere that seems to get dealing with it right.

Yes we are particularly bad at preventative care - it's all fix on fail.

Who has their moles checked once a year, or even once every 5 years for example? Agree with the heart scan too.

I'm sure schools are worse than when I was little in the 1980s and 1990s - I've been disappointed with the total lack of pastoral care both my dc have experienced at school.

Dh has a few moles. He takes a photo of them every year for monitoring purposes. For a bloke he is very good at looking after his health.

It sounds like out of catchment was the right choice. Sadly our out of catchment options were all crazy oversubscribed, and we'd have had zero chance of getting in to the corresponding high schools. Sounds like DD was like your DS - quiet, some good friends, very smart but just got on with her work so in a busy class she was easy to ignore. Teacher was utterly shocked that she wasn't happy, parents evening always sounded like they barely knew her. The difference in that is so noticeable - now it's proper info on strengths, weaknesses, areas to improve with details. No question the teacher knows exactly who she is

That's such a tough call though wax, some level of confidence is personality driven. I'm impressed with your dh, mine usually self diagnoses on the internet and has to be pummelled into making appointments.

As for pastoral care, I don't know.

When I was in first year we were due to do our week long trip to an outdoor centre. I was sure my parents couldn't afford it so I just didn't give them any of the letters and just told school I wasn't going. Anyway, on the week that the class was away, I was initially told to just follow a different class's timetable. I went to the first class, didn't know anyone, teacher wasn't expecting me so I basically took a week off and wandered about, went into town if I had money for fares or played in the lifts in the high flats - couldn't go home as my dad worked nights so was in the house.

Anyway, not anyone in particulars fault (other than mine) but basically I spent a week as a 12 year old where no-one knew where I was or noticed I was missing - no phones back in that day either. We didn't have a landline until a few years later.

Yes, DH and I were both really shy children so he was never going to be the life and soul but prior to the bullying he was definitely quietly confident and comfortable in himself and also wasn't backward in looking after himself either. But remember the child of our time stuff? They used to do these little experiments and I remember doing the on on confidence with DS1 who was same age - millennium baby. He did the test perfectly but just sort of shrugged, DS2 a year younger was much less successful but thought he was a superstar, dancing about how well he'd done... :o

@anon444877

Yes we are particularly bad at preventative care - it's all fix on fail.

Who has their moles checked once a year, or even once every 5 years for example? Agree with the heart scan too.

I'm sure schools are worse than when I was little in the 1980s and 1990s - I've been disappointed with the total lack of pastoral care both my dc have experienced at school.

Very bad at preventative care, at early action, and at just believing people which is a terrible combination.

I was about 6/7 months pregnant with DD2 when I started experiencing really bad stomach pains. Woke me up for a couple of nights, then the third night it went off the scale, I was screaming in pain. Absolute agony. DH called maternity unit, who told us to call an ambulance. By the time the ambulance arrived it had eased somewhat but still bad. Paramedic "are you sure it's not just indigestion love"

No, I did not call an ambulance for indigestion. You have a pregnant woman with such bad abdominal pain she was rolling around the floor. Take me to the fucking hospital!

Guess who had her gallbladder removed when baby was 5 weeks old, having been to A&E three times after her birth? Yeah, that would be the woman with "indigestion".

Few years ago, cycling accident. Could not stand up, no ability to weight bear at all. Leg felt totally dead. Ambulance. Paramedics "don't think anything's broken, have some gas and air"
me "this gas and air isn't working"
them "it is"
get to hospital, plug in to their supply, immediate difference
them "oh, our canister was empty, oops"
GIven paracetamol and left on a trolley for hours (but I'd been seen, they'd given me pain relief right?"
Nurse practitioner "nah, it's not broken" as I am screaming in pain whilst he lifts me leg right up in the air. Eventually agrees to an xray

I'd broken my tibial plateau (bottom of the knee basically) in 2 places, and broken my elbow, was borderline for surgery on tendons, nerves trapped so I couldn't move leg at all. Hospital for a week, massive brace and wheelchair/zimmer for a month, crutches for several months more. But I only needed paracetamol...

sorry, rant!

you'd hope they'd notice a child missing for a week these days! No doubt that bullying has a huge effect, I wonder how many young adult problems can be traced to experiences like that at school?

statistically that is so bad - I've had so many friends and family with nhs experiences like this I could go on at length.

Fwiw, if affordable care sticks, it'll be interesting to see how US healthcare rates and what happens to outcomes there after that.

On a similar topic, thread started today where OP asks if anyone is still having face to face GP appointments. I’d be v.interested to know what the situation is for NHS Scotland. I can’t believe how little access is being offered according to some on here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4075741-Can-anyone-actually-see-a-GP-in-person-nowadays

Oh my @StatisticallyChallenged that's the worst one i've heard!

I had sacroiliac hip displacement during pregnancy. I had a 36hour labour in hospital during which midwife tried to get me to go up on my knees (a no no with hip condition), offered me gas and air and when I said there was nothing in it, they initially said to just suck harder and then admitted it wasn't actually plugged in...then I had a section. They left the tube into my spine until I noticed when I finally managed to go for a wash. Many other things meant I ended up leaving against medical advice.

Roll on a year later and DS2 about due. I've had tearing type pains across my scar and the issues that required the section last time are in place - large baby back to back. I express a wish for a section. consultant says if I go before due date they'll try labour first. I see midwife in tears who fudges the dates that she's booked me in for section (i'e a few days before due date) and then during the surgery the consultant says "I'm glad we did the section as that scare would never have held up during labour..."

But after care was like chalk and cheese to previous time so a bonus all round.

[quote Bytheloch]On a similar topic, thread started today where OP asks if anyone is still having face to face GP appointments. I’d be v.interested to know what the situation is for NHS Scotland. I can’t believe how little access is being offered according to some on here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4075741-Can-anyone-actually-see-a-GP-in-person-nowadays[/quote]
DS did get a face to face as he needed his ear examined. Telephone appointment initially but followed up with f2f. It's not like me, but actually can't find fault so far. Hopefully his referral to ENT comes through as impressively fast.

DS2 was due to get plastic surgery for severe acne scarring 2 years ago but the consultant left and they threw everyone off the list and back to square one. So expected him to go back to GP, then wait for referral to dermatology, then referral to hospital from consultant, then back for photos and mental health assessment etc to get back onto a waiting list that he was already on. hey though, no-one failed the 12 week SLA for treatment though.

That sounds agony. I had severe SPD both times, first one they tried to force me to go for vaginal birth. I am not exaggerating when i say I couldn't part my knees horizontally by more than 2". They told me I could birth on my side with my leg raised and made me climb on the bed to try it.

At this point they realised it would have barely been able to birth a sharpie and agreed to the requested ELCS.

They suggested a trial of labour if I went early with DD2 and were invited to foxtrot oscar. Mine was also done early, about 38 weeks, due to a mistake on the due dates which I didn't correct as like you I was in so much pain I just wanted it over.

yeah what i had and spd are very similar just in different places. I had the hip problem both pregnancies and two large back to back babies though DS2 was only 8lb 3oz so not that large. Ds1 was 9lb 13oz. Being unable to get in many positions or walk properly definitely didn't help, but it is what it is. I feel bad moaning really as some elements of care are so outstanding and others just aren't but it's not the done thing to moan since it's "free".

I saw on Twitter that GPs are getting a massive wad of cash to administer the vaccine....

I must be very lucky with my dentist, which is a mixed private/NHS surgery. I am a chronic tooth clencher and chewed through my night guard in lockdown. I emailed asking to be added to the “list” and was given an appointment as soon as they opened in July. When I was in for the impressions I asked about checkups, and my dentist did it “under the table” at that appointment. I have neuralgia which means I get terrible pain in my teeth, even though my teeth are fine, it’s the nerves in my face which don’t work, so I am supposed to have a check every three months. She also didn’t charge me for the guard when I went to the fit appointment, something about a Covid fee scale.

Obviously none of that was aerosol generating, but even in full lockdown people were being treated at the “hub” here for treatments which were.

I hope this doesn’t come over smug, just that services obviously vary hugely between areas.