November Lockdown: Mibbes Aye Mibbes Naw

[BlueThursday]

Thread 3!!!!

Not being allowed to leave your local authority I think. We're on the border of 2. Hope it's not the 5 mile thing again. There's not much to do with the kids within 5 miles of us.

So... 2 weeks after we do our “circuit breaker” she’s managed to manipulate us all into a “tier system”, threaten us with yet another lockdown, more mask wearing, travel is to become illegal... it really is a load of pish. How is this stopping covid?! Once again, hospitals and care homes should have been protected, and once again, this seems to be where all the spread is. So we all get the blame for having parties etc. Most people have tried their best to avoid community transmission. Not one person I know believes what we are doing is making a blind bit of difference, now.

Yes it's on the bbc today - sturgeon thinks fundamental human right to freedom of movement doesn't apply in a pandemic.

And I thought things couldn't get much worse!

Can only hope they are testing the water and trying to increase compliance with these stories.

Most of my friends are in a different area. I already can’t see them as we are in different tiers but we were hoping that might change at the review.
5 mile limit would be even worse.

I’m not even upset anymore, just so angry.

@runningpink I think what makes it so hard is that you set expectations based on the set of guidelines provided. So in Edinburgh I still cling on to residual hope that on Tuesday we'll be moved to Tier 2 and I can rent a nice wee cottage in another Tier 2 area for a couple of nights.

But it's a poisoned chalice having hope in these circumstances. I think the Tier moves are a one way thing - you go up only - and we'll find that out on Tuesday. In many ways a short lockdown would be easier as set rules for everyone no thinking it will get better during that time period, but I must be careful what I wish for as I'm sure that will be coming too.

Most people are probably aware of it, but thought I'd plug www.travellingtabby.com as a great source of factual information. It shows cases by area and cases and deaths by age.

Unfortunately it doesn't provide co-morbidity factors, was it on this thread that I read of an 80+ woman with terminal cancer marked as a covid death because she tested positive. I genuinely don't know if we should be concerned by the number of deaths or not at this point or indeed if hospitals are overwhelmed or not.

@iquitelikenormalityafterall pish is the only word for all this.

And who knows what the true stats are?

I have to say this travel ban shit has really pushed me from despairing to furious. And I loathe the continual hinting and being treated like a naughty child.

I hope the SG reads this thread!

I think we're doing ok - my friend in London's just had driving lessons and test cancelled, all children's groups and classes stopped and swimming and gym closed. We will always be able to travel for shopping/ caring/ exercise. Others have it harder and I also agree that we need to do what we can in order for nurseries and schools to stay open.

And it supposedly is not over reaching of the state... except when is the tier system due to end?! Indefinitely until “there’s a vaccine?” So it’s taking away our freedoms indefinitely? Too far. Raging.

@Scotslassie1 I’m certainly not claiming England are doing well- total shitshow too.

was it on this thread that I read of an 80+ woman with terminal cancer marked as a covid death because she tested positive

Don't know if it was this thread but my understanding is the count is of "people who have died within 28 days of a positive test" - or at least it was for a while unless it's been changed yet again.

actually just found the definition
"Public Health Scotland determines confirmed COVID-19 deaths by linking the daily National Records of Scotland (NRS) file for newly registered deaths to ECOSS data, and defines a confirmed COVID-19 death as an individual who dies within 28 days of their first positive COVID-19 laboratory report. "

So, person tests positive and dies in a car crash? Covid. Woman goes in to labour, tested in hospital, positive, sadly dies in childbirth? Covid.

On the flip side - if someone like Kate Garrway's poor husband who has been in a coma/intensive care for months were to pass away from his ongoing complications of covid, I think he would not count. (I am not wishing any ill, it's just a high profile long case which most have heard of I think)

The definition of hospital numbers with Covid are even more telling - can be found here
www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-data-definitions-and-sources/

This measure includes patients who first tested positive in hospital or in the 14 days before admission. Patients stop being included after 28 days in hospital (or 28 days after first testing positive if this is after admission).
It includes all patients in hospital, including in intensive care, and community, mental health and long stay hospitals.

So basically people can be in hospital for unrelated reasons, or tested prior to going in hospital for a routine operation, and be counted as a Covid statistic. Not to mention the people living in hospitals .... of which I expect there to be quite a few in larger cities

Interestingly the Scottish Gov website says
due to the speed of reporting these data are not currently subject to the full range of processes and quality assurance that would be required for Official Statistics.

Not subject to the full range of quality assurance - hahaha 😅 😆 no shit ScotGov.

Whilst it might not jump to mind as instantly as nurses and ventilators, setting up good data capture should have been a very early priority. This isn't rocket science - they need some sort of flag to identity people being treated for Covid symptoms.

Covid symptoms plus positive test - in hospital being treated for covix
Not being treated for covid, positive test - covid positive patient for purposes of ppe, infection management etc but not included in the above

Similar for death stats - needs a simple flag for "was patient displaying covid symptoms likely to have contributed to their death". Not bulletproof but better than the current method which is crazy.

@WouldBeGood, it doesn't matter what we do, as long as it is "better than England".

I mean, if people were flayed alive and the crucified in England, while in Scotland we were only flogged to death, then it would be OK.

Arkadia really? Grow up.

I'm not sure I believe restricting freedom of movement legally is doing better than England or anywhere else!

Some empathy for people going into their second lockdown wouldn't go amiss...not 'it doesn't matter what we do as as long as it is better than England. ' Ugh.

It would be nice if we could keep this thread going without it descending into a Scots versus English bun fight.

I don't think anyone said that the British government was doing a better job or even a half decent job.

We're in Scotland though, so surely we're allowed to discuss what's happening to us without making reference to other countries where the regulations will be different?

@rookiemere hear hear

@Scotslassie1, you say
I think we're doing ok - my friend in London's just had driving lessons and test cancelled, all children's groups and classes stopped and swimming and gym closed. We will always be able to travel for shopping/ caring/ exercise.

Newsflash, we are NOT doing OK. We are not doing OK by any stretch of the imagination. There isn't a scenario where we would be doing OK.
Whether or not in England there is a zombie apocalypse is neither here nor there.
We are NOT doing OK.

I think referencing other countries generally is fine - x,y,z seems to be working in country x is fine. But why oh why do we have this endless whataboutery of "England aren't doing better". So bloody what. Maybe we can aspire for more than being the second worst (which is effectively where you end up at...doesn't matter how bad as long as it's better than England)

I didn't mention England, just the city my friend lives in as she's having a tough time and can't do the things we can.

I didn't expect people to jump on it spouting 'England v Scotland' , 'zombie apocalypse ' tripe.

Surely most normal people would think 'that's tough to get through' or something along those lines.. sigh. Over and out for today.

That was a general comment @Scotslassie1 not aimed at you specifically, sorry if it came across that's way.

I think the problem is more generally across Scottish society: it does tend to be that if you question the actings of the SG you immediately get, “oh so you’d like to be governed by the Tories’”

I feel deeply sorry for everyone in lockdown or lockdown by another name.

I want all governments to produce evidence based measures and act proportionately and honestly in removing fundamental freedoms.