October lockdown?

[Goingdooolally]

Hi
I can’t see another thread on this and I think it’s more Scotland than general CV related.

Any thoughts on this? I’m a teacher and there’s been no word at work but I’m hoping to go away for a week in half term (west coast) and really really hoping lockdown doesn’t happen! Selfish I know, but we need a break!

Anyone got any views on the likelihood?

Iskwobel from what I've seen the vast majority are making decisions that are sensible and informed.

@iskwobel

The problem is that everyone wants to argue their corner. It's been turned from a matter of public health into something political that we can all have a personal opinion on. Everyone is "not infectious" when they want to go on holiday. Everyone's sister knows someone who fill in blank to suit . Everyone knows "how bad this has been for mental health and the suicide rate". (I would really like to see some figures on this especially as a percentage of excess deaths. ) Covid doesn't care about your views or your lifestyle choices. The best thing to do now from a public health point of view would be a return to full lockdown for three weeks including schools. Then a cautious reopening of only schools and essential shops. Coronavirus would resurge but the people who would have died due to those three weeks would be alive. A return to normal could then be extremely careful so we could actually celebrate Christmas.

This is an economic and political choice by the UK government. They had the money to bail out the banks in 2008. Tesco has just posted profits. The economy is not destroyed, just changing.

If they wanted to the UK government could bail out and support its citizens over the winter.
I wonder if there are any lives that matter to them?

Spot on

SallySeven if you 're referring to Glasgow, they've had lockdown for months.

On another note re the economy, remember Brexit's already cost the economy more than Covid has and will cause lots to lose jobs once no deal hits but no one's batting an eyelid at that.

I was thinking back to the initial " total " lockdown that didn't manage suppression.

Apologies if the strategy was elimination at that point.

I'm not actually against restrictions but I am pretty much over the hypocrisy in light of Ferrier and everything that's come out there.

@SallySeven I get deliveries from local companies not supermarkets. There's no issue with the delivery slots now anyway as they were massively increased in the spring and they have never gone back! No wonder Tesco are in profit

I was teasing. No worries.

Where's the data that brexit has cost more than covid (so far)?

I find that argument a bit wonky - people certainly have batted an eyelid about the economic cost of brexit and the idea that because economic damage has been done (by brexit, by covid) we should plough on with the economic damage is certainly a novel perspective.

Point of law question....

Say tonight I was just to think bollocks to it all and go and visit my friend Sue with a large bottle of gin. Sue and I are getting quietly pissed in her kitchen but oh no - someone's shopped us to the covid monitors! Police arrive.

Who gets fined?

Me - for being the one not in her own house
Sue - for letting me into her house
Both of us - for being equally naughty?

I would imagine the police would:

1)not show up to a minor infringement
2) if they did they would encourage you to stagger home before resorting to fines.

@BrazenlyDefying

Point of law question....

Say tonight I was just to think bollocks to it all and go and visit my friend Sue with a large bottle of gin. Sue and I are getting quietly pissed in her kitchen but oh no - someone's shopped us to the covid monitors! Police arrive.

Who gets fined?

Me - for being the one not in her own house
Sue - for letting me into her house
Both of us - for being equally naughty?

Replace naughty with incredibly selfish then have a think

eplace naughty with incredibly selfish then have a think

I'm so over this judgey passive aggressiveness.

You're probably right, @WeAllHaveWings, you'd hope they'd just move on people reported for gathering.

But I suppose if you were a persistent gin-drinker in various people's houses, tehy might take a different approach.

@Friendsoftheearth

The timing is very interesting! Nothing to with her forgotten meeting then. The day before she assured us we were not going to have any more restrictions, the very next day - all pubs closed and hospitality etc for 16 days!

I'm no sturgeon fan, but she didn't promise no restrictions the day before.

I'm so over this judgey passive aggressiveness.

Yep, me too. It's surely more selfish to deny everyone else the right to socialise when you can can just stay in your house and it therefore doesn't affect you.

I agree that the police would be uninterested and would at most "advise" that you go home.

I know they've got new powers regarding house parties but would 2 people be a houseparty? You could simply be part of an extended bubble anyway.

If anyone is at fault it would be Sue whose house you are in. Unless you forced her at gunpoint. You are allowed to not be in your own house, she is not supposed to have guests. It any of that legally enforceable anyway?

It's the twee little "Why don't you just think about what you have done" tone, sort of like you'd tell a 5 year old who has just stamped in a puddle or something. Condescending and patronising.

@WaxOnFeckOff

Put it this way, if everything was open as normal and all the people who want to, get on with things did so, where is the impact on those who don't want them open?

If you want to stay in your house, not go to pubs and restaurants etc etc you can. You can also not open your business if you want, you can give up your job etc. That way the people impacted are the ones who want to be. Those who require to be shielded can obviously continue to receive support and they could discourage the rest of us from using supermarket slots for those that want to shield on top of that.

Whilst doing it the other way round means lots of frustrated people, collapsed businesses, lost jobs etc from people who are happy to still be open and work, go out etc.

The potential impact is the health service. They could just do what they did before in keeping a reserved amount of beds for those who specifically require treatment "because" of covid and if or when there is no space, then we take our chances.

Sounds eminently sensible to me.

Yep, a lot of patronising and passive aggressiveness on here.

Do those that are complaining live in the middle of nowhere? I live in Edinburgh and work in a school here and see day to day the wreck that lockdown has made of the centre of Edinburgh. We can’t all hide in the middle of nowhere in the Highlands!

Of course we don’t want COVID to rip through (I am not one of those crazy herd immunity people) but we need to get some balance between public health and the economy - they are intertwined. Life must go on. We cannot did another full lockdown. Sensible measures, mini circuit breakers like these, being careful (masks, social distancing) should hopefully see us ticking along until science catches up. Kids need to be in schools. Eradication is not realistic. We are not New Zealand.

@iskwobel, I asked you this before and I ask you again: where have you been for the past 7 months? In case you haven't noticed we have never been out of lockdown, but only in various versions of it. For example, nightclub and soft plays never reopened - and most likely never will, unless someone is paying them to be shut. Dentists are shut. Just today I was reading that the waiting list to get hospital treatment has reached it highest level in 12 years at nearly 2m patients (that is for England, but I would expect Scotland will have similar figures). Cinemas are shutting down. Sport centres are shut except a few here and there and to enter them is again a war zone kind of scenario - actually going anywhere is like entering a war zone where at every step you are afraid of being hit by a landmine.

We spent the summer all locked up because the numbers where never low enough, and a few weeks down the line we are back to square one.
Rather than yet another iteration of the same stuff, we need a rethink of the strategy as the current one is clearly not working.

@Goingdooolally, have you read this?
gbdeclaration.org/
These people are hardly crazy and are far more qualified than dear Jason.

[quote Arkadia]@Goingdooolally, have you read this?
gbdeclaration.org/
These people are hardly crazy and are far more qualified than dear Jason.[/quote]
There were people comparing them to Harold Shipman on another thread I am sure. Bonkers.

Ok fair enough, that was flippant of me. I retract the crazy comment. But they don’t know the effects of long COVID and also whether immunity lasts. Big risk. There are plenty of scientists coming out against if too.

My point I was trying to make was I’m a moderate when it comes to COVID.

This long covid thing - I heard a guy from Edinburgh Uni speaking on the radio yesterday morning. Professor of public health so he knows his stuff.

Whoops

www.ed.ac.uk/profile/raj-bhopal

He said that in EVERY illness, infection, virus, you get 1% to 2% who have ongoing symptoms which last a lot longer than in other people. It's not a "covid" thing. It's a virus thing, and not really anything to panic about.

It seems (anecdotally) more prevalent though. But yes more research needs to be done for sure.

@MadameBlobby, I am not surprised. Thing is, we DO need a rethink and an alternative strategy. The current one is just NOT working and we can see that all over Europe, not just here. Even if (and it's a BIG if) a vaccine comes along next year, by the time it has been administered to the at-risk people how many more months will have gone by? How many exams cancelled? How many operations postponed? How many people will have died as collateral damage?

@Goingdooolally