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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Margaret Ferrier

333 replies

sonicbook · 01/10/2020 18:46

Speechless and disgusted. Is it thoughtlessness? Arrogance? Panic?

I actually don't think resignation would be good enough. She needs sacked and charged.

OP posts:
chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 15:07

I've voted for various parties over the years and always try to go for whoever's values are aligned to mine or, as has been the case, really good local councillors who are stepping up and you know that they'll do their best for everyone

My MP is a lying hypocrite and I could not vote for him regardless of his party

He's an idiot who couldn't hold down a real
job in the real world.

A lot of people agree. Yet still the locals vote for him because SNP

anon444877 · 03/10/2020 15:09

I didn't say it was the SNP party's fault or that they could police their MPs - I do fail to see how the fact Sturgeon has condemned it appropriately can turn this into an SNP moral victory but people do see what they want to see in their heroes.

I have no love for Cummings, the Barnard castle thing was the issue I'm sure the vast majority of people thought he should resign over.

Politicians and people the world over have made many and various mistakes through the pandemic, I see nothing much to shout about on either side in the situation we are in now.

Jodri · 03/10/2020 15:13

The constituents could get rid of her using the Recall of MP act 2015 if they wanted to.
The MP has to have fulfilled certain criteria of wrongdoing and 1 in 10 constituents have to sign a petition to call for this. These hoops are quite high to jump through and I’m not sure if there is an equivalent act for Holyrood.

Scotslassie1 · 03/10/2020 15:15

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Jodri · 03/10/2020 15:17

If I was leader of the SNP I would be fully behind the local party mobilising the electorate to call for this.

chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 15:19

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chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 15:20

@Jodri

The constituents could get rid of her using the Recall of MP act 2015 if they wanted to. The MP has to have fulfilled certain criteria of wrongdoing and 1 in 10 constituents have to sign a petition to call for this. These hoops are quite high to jump through and I’m not sure if there is an equivalent act for Holyrood.
That's interesting about the 10%. I believe this is a tightly contested seat having been labour forever

That might just happen then

BrazenlyDefying · 03/10/2020 15:22

The MP has to have fulfilled certain criteria of wrongdoing and 1 in 10 constituents have to sign a petition

That's quite a big ask. Almost 81,000 electorate. You'd need over 8000 people to sign a petition, and someone to go door to door or stand in the local shopping centre to grab people. In the middle of a pandemic.

chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 15:26

I suppose it would depend how outraged people were.

I think the fact that they've been in note stringent lockdown over the past few weeks will influence a lot of people, people who have been following the rules.

It really is inexcusable, no matter who has done it and if she had an ounce of humility, integrity and respect for her constituents she would stand down.

ancientgran · 03/10/2020 15:31

Dominic Cummings didn't just drive to Durham though, he went back into his office (at 10 Downing St?) after he had been home because his wife was showing symptoms. He also went out while in Durham, to the hospital to pick his wife up, walking in woods, driving to test his eyes. She is stupid but let's not pretend he did less than he did.

NotAnActualSheep · 03/10/2020 15:35

I don't think a recall petition is allowed unless the Standards Committee of the HofC sanction her, though (or if she is sent to prison or fiddles her expenses...neither of which are relevant here!) Which kind of makes sense, as otherwise constituents unhappy with the way an MP voted or something could start a petition for recall when the MP hadn't done anything wrong.

I agree the division between voting for a "person" and voting for a party is tricky, and I understand the outrage when, for example, MPs defect between parties (as over brexit) as the constituents feel they are being represented by someone who no longer holds the "party values" they voted them in on. But also, I'm not sure withdrawing the whip is as severe a punishment as is being made out. All those Tory rebels who had the whip withdrawn over brexit were readmitted a few weeks later. It's a political decision, and a rap on the knuckles (and a threat that the "party machine" won't support their reelection), but may not affect anything in the long term, especially if the MP continues to vote alongside the party and they haven't parted company ideologically.

In December there was an SNP candidate who was suspended due to alleged antisemitic tweets (Neale Hanvey). So he effectively stood as an Independent candidate. Albeit one with the SNP logo by his name because it was too late to change the ballot paper. He won the seat, suggesting that people were either willing to vote for an independent antisemite (alleged...) or would vote for "anyone with an SNP badge". Interestingly, he was readmitted into the SNP in June.

I do wonder whether MF May be playing a similar game...sitting as an independent, voting alongside the SNP for everything, and then hoping to get the whip reinstated once this has all "blown over". I hope blackford and sturgeon have more integrity than that. Or at least recognise that constituents have long memories.

chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 15:36

@ancientgran

Dominic Cummings didn't just drive to Durham though, he went back into his office (at 10 Downing St?) after he had been home because his wife was showing symptoms. He also went out while in Durham, to the hospital to pick his wife up, walking in woods, driving to test his eyes. She is stupid but let's not pretend he did less than he did.
Come on. Of course he did less. She returned in public transport knowing she had tested positive.

Do you really think the two are comparable?

NotAnActualSheep · 03/10/2020 16:03

Agreed. According to DCs statement, his wife didn't have symptoms (she was ill, but didn't have a cough or fever) which was why he was able to return to work. Whether or not you believe him seems irrelevant, though. The main issue as I understand it, is that BJ not only refused to condemn his actions, but even supported them. NS has definitely fared better on that account with MF. But the actual severity of the "crime" (and I accept its "not a competition") is what has shocked and depressed me so much with MF. At least DC did his best to keep away from others, and stayed largely in one place (albeit not at home) once his symptoms started. This is really the "spirit" of the legislation, to stop people spreading the virus as far as possible. MF didn't think this applied to her for some reason, even though it would have been perfectly possible for her to just stay at home when she got symptoms.

ancientgran · 03/10/2020 22:30

Come on. Of course he did less. She returned in public transport knowing she had tested positive. Maybe read it again, I didn't say he did the same as her, I was talking about people saying he just drove to Durahm.

According to DCs statement, his wife didn't have symptoms (she was ill, but didn't have a cough or fever) which was why he was able to return to work. Whether or not you believe him seems irrelevant, though. Wasn't he supposed to be afraid that he and his wife would be too ill with covid to look after their child, so every time she feels ill does he decide to drive to Durham or was it because she was feeling ill in a pandemic? He can't have it both ways.

Slightlybrwnbanana · 03/10/2020 22:35

Absolutely I think the two are comparable. They both clearly broke/flaunted lockdown rules, and were in a position to influence others to do the same.

Scotslassie1 · 03/10/2020 22:44

He went because he fancied time away from London. They went on walks and drove 52 miles to a Castle for a day out for his wife's birthday. All the while the rest of the UK were banned from travelling anywhere.

chrislilleyswig · 03/10/2020 22:52

. She is stupid but let's not pretend he did less than he did.

There you go Ancientgran, to save you having to read it againNo-one said that you claimed it was the same

I responded that of course he did less.

While I have no time for him and what he did wrong, he didn't travel on public transport knowing he had tears positive for Covid.

All this whataboutery does the nats no favours at all

Slightlybrwnbanana · 03/10/2020 23:08

At a time when i could not get into a car and drive a couple of miles to exercise my children, could not visit any of my family and could drive only when doing my keyworker job, he drove, sickness in his car, to the other end of England, saw his family and had some jaunts before driving home again.
Because a Scottish MP has done something also selfish and stupid I'm meant to forget what Cummings did, and got away with? Nope.

BrazenlyDefying · 04/10/2020 09:11

So this broke on Thursday night and it's now Sunday. She's had ALL of Friday and ALL of Saturday to step down and hasn't.

Quite clearly the stupid, selfish woman is not going to do the right thing and hope we all go away and forget about her, while she carries on claiming her salary for doing zilch.

NotAnActualSheep · 04/10/2020 09:26

Wasn't he supposed to be afraid that he and his wife would be too ill with covid to look after their child, so every time she feels ill does he decide to drive to Durham or was it because she was feeling ill in a pandemic? He can't have it both ways.

Yes, you're right. He was worried both he and she could become too ill with CV to look after their child. Not an unreasonable concern given the circumstances. Though at the time they travelled, neither had the key symptoms (though if he did come down with CV symptoms the next day as claimed, he at least was likely infectious). If they were both ill with CV, their normal London childcare wouldn't be available, because it wouldn't be fair or safe (for the child or carer) to ask a nanny/ family friend or whatever to look after a child full time, with 2 infectious parents potentially out of action for some time. His nieces were willing to do this, were in a low risk group for CV and presumably didn't have other responsibilities and were known by his child. If CV wasn't the issue they wouldn't have needed to travel because there would have been more options for childcare in London.

The story is neat...possibly too neat, and maybe not having considered and risk assessed all possible options the way we would do in hindsight. But what he didn't do is bundle his family onto a train to go to work 30-odd hours after showing symptoms, and back again the next day having tested positive.. Saying this is worse isn't minimising or whitewashing what he did... We can still be furious about that, and about BJs ongoing response. I can be furious about lots of things simultaneously Grin

cdtaylornats · 04/10/2020 09:32

MPs cannot be sacked.

To get rid of her the constituency has to recall her.

Recall can only happen if
she is convicted and given a custodial sentence
suspended from the commons for 10 sitting days or 14 calendar days
convicted of false expense claims

NotAnActualSheep · 04/10/2020 09:34

@BrazenlyDefying

So this broke on Thursday night and it's now Sunday. She's had ALL of Friday and ALL of Saturday to step down and hasn't.

Quite clearly the stupid, selfish woman is not going to do the right thing and hope we all go away and forget about her, while she carries on claiming her salary for doing zilch.

Yup. She's going to hope everyone forgets about it and moves on just like we have with DC while she sits as an independent with her head below the parapet for a bit. And then gets the SNP whip restored in a few months when she has been sufficiently contrite and comes up with a story about caring responsibilities in Westminster or having to get an eye test in the buffet car on the west coast mainline or something. Angry
cdtaylornats · 04/10/2020 09:35

Cummings only endangered himself and his family
Fielding endangered hundreds of people.

Does she have the tracking app? In an example of how dumb devolution is - which one does she have?

Scotslassie1 · 04/10/2020 09:48

Both individuals are as bad as each other. What's galling ( still) is the the UK Government's response to lie for him.

She can have Scottish, English and Welsh apps on her phone and turn on/ off as she moves into a new country. Hardly an example of ' how dumb devolution is'.

NatashaAlianovaRomanova · 04/10/2020 09:49

@NotAnActualSheep

This was my mums constituency & it's highly likely it was a combination of both. It's not a very diverse area, with a higher than average acceptance of low level racism, bigotry etc as a hangover from the past but also has a high number of people in the YES camp.

As for Margaret Ferrier she needs to resign.

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