Scottish Exam Results 2020

[Lidlfix]

After hearing DD3's deep sigh and worried voice observe "this time in four weeks..." I feel it's acceptable to begin the 2020 thread.

Over the years Scotsnet regulars and visitors have given great support, advice and even (tales of blissfully unaware snoring DC) light hearted relief to each other over the years.

This year has been particularly fearful for us and our DC and I know how much I have appreciated results threads in previous years. As there are plenty of threads with political discussions and chances for posters to express concerns about what politicians/councils/ schools/ teachers are or aren't doing, can I gently ask that we keep this to topic?

I have DD3 waiting on 1 AH and 2 Highers for a conditional offer and DD4 waiting on 5 Highers - results depending she'd like to apply for Law for the end of S6.

@WaxOnFeckOff your son is a good example. DD might have done similar if StA hadn't kept her waiting until the end of March before rejecting her. She'd finished the courses and done the project work by then.

Glad to hear that the Scottish unis are positive about having more students.

Just spoke to cousin whose DD was predicted 5 As in S6 (got As in all previous exams). She got 3As and 2Bs. This is now being upgraded to the predicted 5 As thanks to the U Turn so she's delighted.

BUT apparently, one of her BFs has had the previous grades previously for English:

National 5 prelim - fail
National 5 final - C
Higher prelim - fail
Higher final - D
S6 prelim - C
and the SQA originally awarded her a C but apparently the school put her down for an A?

So this imo is an example of a school inflating grades yet this friend is going to get an A for English, when my cousins DD has genuinely worked her arse off. My cousin is rather pissed off as it devalues her DDs grade and hard work. They both go to school in a deprived area.

It seems that no solution is the right solution.

It seems that no solution is the right solution.

yes, now that is true. There was a better way to do it upfront but for some reason no-one thought to do any of that. SQA list all students by candidate number, that stays with them all the way through, so whilst they wouldn't have prelim results, they would have final results and some data analysis could have been done where results for Nat 5s/Highers/AHs for the same subjects could have been compared to check for anomalies. That's code that DS1 could probably write, never mind the resource that SQA should have available. Appreciate there will be crash highers involved too.

However, the scenario you describe could easily be found and evidence requested/reviewed.

@Clerkmaxwell in no way did I mean that students in low performing schools should not be given every chance at uni ( all also give contextual offers do they not?). I also agree that teachers have in the main been optimistically fair however no teacher can have a crystal ball and predict hiccups on the day. Nor in the case of advanced highers will they have taken into account uncondionalitis which is now why AH grades look super inflated. My own ds would have benefitted from this year as 3 years ago achieved 3 As at AH prelims then got an unconditional for 1st choice uni and foot came off the gas and final grades were an A and 2Bs, still fab grades but he knew he hadn't done the work he should have. This is in no way a criticism if I was a teacher I would do exactly that ang give my pupils better best grade they could achieve under optimal conditions. It is the lack of a fair system of information gathering and subsequent moderation which makes a mockery of the process. Yes grades would be expected to increase this year but not to the degree they now will. In all honesty I am not sure in the future how much these grades will be taken seriously, rightly or wrongly.

@britINscotland exactly how my dd feels now as some studets she knows achieved low grades in prelim and tests but given top results. She consistently is a high achiever and feels her grades are devalued. However appreciate for her it is a first world problem and no where near the concern of pupils from deprived areas not getting the results they deserved in the first place. That indeed has been a scandal.

Just read your earlier post Clerk and I agree. It must logically be the case that there are routinely students who miss out on courses they are capable of because of the Cap which limits places in the face of rising attainment and blocking off increasing numbers of places for contextualised students.

Contextual offers are limited to SIMD 1 students. There are plenty of SIMD 2 and 3 and even 4 with significant disadvantage relative to a 2 professional parent SIMD 5 student but no access to contextual offers.

britinScotland otoh no-one ever tells a privately educated pupil with additional tutoring that their 5 As are not worth as much as the 5 As achieved by the kids at the local comp so .

I have 3Bs instead of 3As due to the teachers' strikes in the 80s. They still bother me but honestly no-one else is the least bit interested. If your cousin is a 5 A student then their degree is the thing which will count, and after a couple of years in their chosen career no-one will even be interested in that.

Difficult for me to get on board with begrudging anyone the odd over generous grade. Might be different if they were going to crowd out Uni places but providing the Govt sticks to the pledge to widen access to match higher grades this won't happen.

Thinking of the SQA, were they doing what they were told to do by the SG, and now (like teachers last week) are getting the blame?

I have 3Bs instead of 3As due to the teachers' strikes in the 80s. They still bother me but honestly no-one else is the least bit interested

We must be the same age but honestly i've never even thought about that. I was never going to uni as we couldn't afford it and wasn't for "the likes of us", I needed to get a job and contribute to household income.

I absolutely agree that no-one gives a toss what you got in Highers once you have a degree and no-one cares about your degree once you've been working a couple of years.

@britINscotland - I think AH English is 60% dissertation/portfolio and only 40% exam . Prelims tend to be exam component only but teachers would have seen late drafts of dissertations and portfolio before lockdown so it is conceivable that someone with a C at prelim could have been predicted an A. Equally could be a school who knew they had lots of As to go around so were inflating. Would have needed head of department and head if school both to sign off without the evidence knowing that SQA might check progression matrices and C to D to A would stand out like a sore thumb. I would like to think that this is rare. Your example seems a bit unusual as most Scottish schools wouldn't allow someone with a D at Higher do AH in the first place. Is it a private school?

Sorry cousin's DD did Highers last year including Higher English which she got an A for.

This year she did a mixture of Highers and Advanced Highers although I am not sure of her exact subjects. I think English is probably an AH as she's been accepted to journalism.

Her friend has struggled with English but now has an A thanks to the Scottish Government. I just know that my cousin is pissed off that her DD worked hard for her grades each year when her friend can just complain. It doesn't send a good message about the need to study hard etc. But as I said above, there wasn't an ideal solution.

low league table school in a deprived area.

@Alittlewornout I can understand your DDs concerns. I would have felt the same myself at 18. I think unis like StA (and others that look properly at personal statements and references) are good at telling the difference between students with similar results. At DDs school there are lots with 5As in a normal year ranging from those with all band 1s even in prelims to those with minging prelims who had 5 tutors in the run up to exam time.

@britINscotland: an A at Higher makes more sense. Still strange that a school would predict without evidence. What would have happened if the SQA sampled evidence? English teachers on the thread will be able to better comment but perhaps your DDs BF has something unusual (arresting writing style). I imagine for english time spent doesn't always mean more marks. Plus it's not so obvious that you are studying. DD used to plan the next part of her dissertation while doing the chips at work and listened to audio versions of texts on the bus to school.

There was, indeed, no easy solution and I'm delighted for all the kids who narrowly missed out on an award/ grade they needed who will now have it. My DNiece and DNephew are in this category. However, I agree with PPs that my DS, who worked hard all year and got all As at Nat 5 originally now thinks that everyone will think ' Ah, but that was 2020 you didn't really deserve those/ they're not as valid'

I really hope that FE, HE, Employers, society in general don't view the 2020 candidates any differently. For my 2 DDs' sakes, my pupils and all the cohort. Sadly, due to parents over supporting, tutors practically writing coursework etc there are kids that get grades that don't necessarily reflect their ability every year. They go to uni and either find their feet or don't, Dropping out, picking a course more suitable is just part and parcel of the journey and I know that's not just because of a tutoring etc . But when you have a degree, HND a trade to your name you are never asked what you got in your Highers. What's the worst that can happen? Kids go to uni and drop out ? Uni exams were altered, students sat them home with tech, notes etc I haven't heard any remarks about kids progressing in uni with results they don't deserve.

@Lidlfix you make very good points however in my ds uni course at least essays throughout the year and winter exams count towards the degree so in other words almost continual assessment. This year has really shown up the failings of an all or nothing approach in school final exams. I realise most courses have some folio work but there are also issues with some of those too. I dont really have an answer but am very glad for those students who will now receive the grades they deserve.

I use higher English grades to sift cvs; without an A in Higher English an applicant would not even be considered for interview. It is an objective way to reduce applications to a manageable level for review. Perhaps going forward we should disregard anyone who gained an A in 2020 too. An A this year is simply not credible and there are plenty of good applicants who have achieved that level without their teacher’s aspirations being a material factor.

I disagree about higher/advance highers not really mattering once you have your degree etc.

many graduate job schemes do look at higher and advanced higher grades even once you have your degree. A company often has to be comparing many degree candidates and it’s one way to compare potential employers because the sqa awards are uniform unlike universities (you may have one who studied video game design from Abertay and another Ancient history at Glasgow).

According to the Times this morning, approx 75,000 results have been changed but SG is only funding an additional 3,000 spaces.

With A level pupils now being allowed to claim their mock result as their final grade, the Universities have a lot of work head of them in allocating places.

And of course this year’s cohort will have their results questioned forever more as they are quite clearly not worth the paper they are written on.

I think the numbers of candidates in low SIMD who get accepted onto a graduate job scheme would be far more revealing of whether the attainment gap is closing.

@cocoops I wonder where these spaces are going to be? there is a difference between st Andrews university and the university of the west of Scotland

Simply that's really interesting. Many pupils picking Higher options don't pick English as it's not required for their degree pathways that History or RMPS etc is evidence of writing skills at that level. That sort of view from an employer is not heard very often. My DD (mentioned before tortoise not hare) should perhaps try to upgrade her B for English which we were, sadly , accepting - would that be advisable? She wants to study Law.

I find that about higher English equally astounding. You mean that they would ignore my son who is currently doing a masters in computer science and looking at first-class/distinction in favour of other applicants because he didn't even do higher English never mind get an A? He got an A at Nat 5 but didn't need English for any uni courses.

@WaxOnFeckOff I agree, I know medicine and STEM students who dont have Higher English. I hope this graduate scheme is for a job where written communication is the main part of the job.
PS: Happy to hear your DS is doing so well.

@Moresandwiches that’s interesting and in my dd experience I would agree.
Her EU friends which are the majority in her friendship group, are all older (she was still 17 when she started and had done S6, they were already 20) and all apart from one, come from very privileged backgrounds (parents EU diplomats or working in oil industry is a favourite which takes the family all over the world).
Dd friends from school chose closer to home universities and one reason was due to the cost of living in Edinburgh, which her eu and international friends are able to cover.
I only know a little bit about the Spanish education system whose exams went ahead this year, in person, they receive their results within a week and then they apply for university (no interviews or personal statement, done purely on grade) and know whether they have a place within days once they have applied.
Perhaps the OECD best practice review into education, which has been delayed, will change things?