Scottish Exam Results 2020

[Lidlfix]

After hearing DD3's deep sigh and worried voice observe "this time in four weeks..." I feel it's acceptable to begin the 2020 thread.

Over the years Scotsnet regulars and visitors have given great support, advice and even (tales of blissfully unaware snoring DC) light hearted relief to each other over the years.

This year has been particularly fearful for us and our DC and I know how much I have appreciated results threads in previous years. As there are plenty of threads with political discussions and chances for posters to express concerns about what politicians/councils/ schools/ teachers are or aren't doing, can I gently ask that we keep this to topic?

I have DD3 waiting on 1 AH and 2 Highers for a conditional offer and DD4 waiting on 5 Highers - results depending she'd like to apply for Law for the end of S6.

Take it certificates are all going to have to be reproduced? What a waste of everything.

I just wanted to add how incredibly proud the parents of the girls he name checked from George Sq should be of them. Their names will be down in government records for ever.

wax the problem with adding 6th year conditions or increasing grade requirements is that it risks producing exactly the same effect as moderating results downward in the first place.

Agree the most likely outcome is a negotiation to increase places and funding for Scottish students. Lots of pressure to do this already even before Covid and Uni financing problems.

As a pp said the fall off of European Students may help but something will need to be done re university places. Maybe tuition fees will be brought in.

So Ds has now gone from 5A,2B,1D to better 6A, 2B.

Still appealing the schools grades for the 2Bs in maths and application of maths which we think is a school error.

I think the 'well done Scotland' is because at least it's been admitted that they got it wrong.

If/when it happens here (England) on Thursday, there will likely just be bumble, bluster and fudge to try and hastily sort something out.

I don't agree Dinna - adding in 6th year conditions should be about confirming that pupils are working at the level they have, not about making it harder or presuming that they aren't capable. So, for example entry requirements were AABB, pupil has AABB but is sitting 2 highers and a nat 5 for breadth in S6 so conditions could be achieving BB or AB in the highers. Or if doing AHs and they have AABB, then expectation would be say BC or CC in AHs, so, not making things more stretched, just putting in something reasonable. Appreciate that doesn't work for everything though :)

Although I have not commented before, as my user name states I am simply aghast at this decision by the Scottish Government to devalue educational attainment which will have repercussions for many years to come.

There can be no credibility in the exam grades awarded this year. Previous posters have stated that they were “aspirational” in awarding grades; that does not instill confidence that the grades are correct. The appeals process would likely have borne out a lack of evidence to substantiate the grades. There is clearly a bigger issue in the quality of teaching and approach to the grading that should be addressed. My own view is that the appeals process should continue to verify teacher assessments and where these cannot be substantiated evidence development needs for teachers addressed.

Clearly this volte face from the government is an attempt to appeal to voters next year. Narrowing the attainment gap is simply a race to the bottom. Young people from independent and high performing state schools will be unfairly prejudiced by this decision which, when taken together with contextualised admissions, will further discriminate against them and seek to restrict their life chances. I wonder if the government will listen to their concerns or whether it’s simply a case of those who shout loudest, and are more likely to vote SNP next year get what they want. I think that’s unlikely to result in an increased tax base in future years.

I understand the massive relief from many on hearing this news, but ‘Well done’, really? This was a completely avoidable farce (the latest in a long line) that could and should have been handled differently from the start, was initially defended by both NS and JS, and has only been reversed now because JS was facing a no confidence vote.

@WaxOnFeckOff

Well, what would have been fairer would have been to actually assess evidence for the grades submitted or at the very least do some checking on anomalies and/or general cross checking to ensure that, in general, the grades given were appropriate. Unfortunately that horse has bolted.

Whilst there could have been massive overestimating, my view is that aside from a few pockets, in the main it would be those who were on a border that got estimated up rather than down by teachers e.g. someone sitting around the 50% mark would be put down as a C rather than a D. Multiply that across the board, remove the amount of DC who would have had some kind of issue on the day and you pretty much hit the numbers that were higher than expected.

I simply don't believe that every teacher deliberately over-graded all their pupils.

I don't believe there was any justification for increasing awards from those recommended. Disappointed pupils should have then been able to challenge if they felt they had been deliberately or accidentally down graded by a teacher and have any evidence cross checked, perhaps even taking evidence from other teachers in the school who could attest in general to the work ethic and capability in other subjects.

Spot on @waxonfeckoff. Makes a mockery of the whole system this year- they would have been as well having abandoned the whole pretext of exams this year as results from the 2020 cohort will forevermore have a huge question mark over them.

What a clusterfuck.

The SQA should have moderated by looking at samples of work from each student and awarding grades on merit not public outcry. The issue was with the means of moderation, not that moderation was required.

I also think changing entry requirements for those in sixth year now will penalise young people who have selected subjects for S6 in good faith and started on these.

Plus, yes, there will be either increased taxation to pay for this or tuition fees.

So no, not well done Scotland. An indictment of the decisions which have been made along the way by the powers that be.

I see what you are saying wax and the logic makes sense but it would also be adding a bunch of extra hoops to a cohort who haven't had the experience of going through the Higher process. The automatic effect would be to narrow their choices further than the "safety first" of the current environment already has - schools may yet be disrupted again.

My 2 DC would have made very different choices for S6 if they had actually needed the results rather than using it to broaden their horizons and do some fun stuff. The current cohort have already been robbed of the sense of achievement from performing under pressure and most of the fun of S6. Adding extra grade requirements just feels like adding insult to injury.

No easy answers though as it is just as bad for students to get to Uni and discover they can't cope with the course.

Out of interest, they've said they're using the teacher grades, but a small number of pupils had their grades increased from the teacher grade didn't they? Will they have their grade marked down to what the teacher said, or kept?

yes dinna, I see exactly what you are saying. I was saying that might be fairer than increasing requirements but who knows now and really a lot of this could easily have been avoided. Hopefully everyone ends up where they should in the end.

@Frazzled13

Out of interest, they've said they're using the teacher grades, but a small number of pupils had their grades increased from the teacher grade didn't they? Will they have their grade marked down to what the teacher said, or kept?

They are not going to downgrade anything they have issued I believe.

No the increase will stay - to take them away would have a detrimental impact on those that had made significant life and financial decisions based on those results

Just in from work and catching up. Agree with many that the moderation process in the first place was wholly inadequate. @WaxOnFeckOff you always speak so much sense and are clear and concise in your views which I agree with. I fear, again like many on this thread, that this makes a complete mockery of this years results. If I was in higher education I would be worried about the true ability of some students coming through my doors next year and as Wax said be placing conditions on acceptance based on 6th year results or some form of aptitude test. Appreciate that is unlikely to happen as too much effort.
Be interesting to see what Thursday brings......

@celtiethree

No the increase will stay - to take them away would have a detrimental impact on those that had made significant life and financial decisions based on those results

That's good, I wasn't suggesting they should have them taken away, just wondering as some of the news used phrases like "grades affected by the moderation" so it wasn't totally clear.

I don't think this makes a mockery of the results and would be no more worried about the quality of the kids going into uni than usual. I suspect most teachers estimated fairly if optimistically. I haven't seen the moderation figures broken down for H and AH but overall its 75000 kids with most having one grade in 1-2 subjects increased. So panic not, Kev the Ket dealer isn't going to get his B in H PE turned into 5As in stem subjects so he can have a shot at legit medicine. S6 results don't reflect the ability of students in a normal year as many with unconditionals don't bother with the exams but go on to do well at uni. Plus not convinced that you need the grades asked for these days for some courses. I think they have shown that students in poorer areas with several grades less generally do as well advantaged students with more. Who wouldn't want to give them a decent shot at uni.

Anton Muscatelli of UoG has a thread on twitter outlining the Uni approach in more detail. This is relevant to discussion on 2021 entry:

Q:"Good to hear you welcoming the decision and affirming UofG approach, thank you. Will this also apply to the 2021 application and admission cycle, which is of concern to most of the pupils receiving Higher awards this year "?

AM: "Yes - do realise that it’s a multi-year effect because most students doing Highers are applying to join in 2021. The assurance on additional funded places for the 2020 cohort is helpful and we will have dialogue on this with the Scottish Funding Council and Scottish Government".

Whole thread is worth looking at especially for anyone directly affected.

(Just realised another issue with seeking to add additional S6 entry requirements. This would disadvantage anyone who would have got in this year but chose instead to stay on to 6th year. Therefore not really feasible).

Unfortunately (fortunately?) I think Boris is on holiday but I really hope the English government follows suit.

Fingers crossed for all our friends South of the border.

I agree although I wonder whether this will give English unis who over offer like Cambridge issues. Maybe if the Europeans and internationals don't come they will have space. Scottish process won't affect English students much as so few Scots go South these days and those that do are usually very talented (medicine, music, drama, art, Oxbridge etc) and would have likely secured their places regardless.

@ClerkMaxwell, yes, DS1 was more or less a straight A student but got 3 Cs in his AHs as he had unconditionals for Uni and had turned down offers to go into 2nd years anyway.

He's sitting at over 90% in everything on his uni course (about to start 3rd year) so if was judged and dismissed based on 6th year then that would be a big loss.

I live in England but I thought I'd pop on here just to say how unjust the process and how glad I am it's been overturned. I hope we don't have a similar problem in England. Young people have been royally screwed by lockdown etc. Downgrading the results was twisting the knife.

I've been told from a few sources that Scottish students are already behind English students at Scottish universities. And English students are behind EU students.