If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

Comoagua the dodger.

You still fail to grasp basic economic realities - Germany, France and the rest of the EU is having Brexit forced upon them and will have the economic consequences thereof.

We should be uniting to fight Brexit not uniting to buy into another nationalist escape fantasy.

I absolutely detest this idea that we must not talk about problems in the education system as it is talking schools down.

Head in sand time.

No and would now vote Yes.

I voted for economic stability.
If we have instability (thanks Brexit)we may as well have independence.

I can almost see this logic, but instability isn’t a fixed factor, and more is always worse. I’m beginning to despise all the current UK and Scottish political options tbh but have fingers crossed for Jo Swinson uniting the anti Brexit group.

rosemaryremember I agree the debate on schools has become so polarised - better than English schools doesn’t mean there isn’t and shouldn’t be room for further improvement, a dismal sign of our divided politics.

I’ve been seeing the third anniversary of Jo Cox and I really believe in her more in common message, sick of all the voting for castles in the air rather than working on the ground for a common goal to improve our communities.

Well this thread wasn't anything to do with schools. And discussion about schools is of course important, but I don't see what it has to do with a discussion on independence. Whether we are independent or in the union, Scottish education is Scottish education. It's devolved.

I wholeheartedly agree that discussions on the education system are a good thing. However, it would be good to have a discussion. Not 'Scottish education used to be great and now it's terrible'. When anyone tries to say it's not that bad, it's 'oh well you're shutting down debate by saying schools in rUK are worse'. You don't want a discussion here, you want to say Scottish education is down the pan and imply that this means Scotland shouldn't be independent. Otherwise why bring it up on a thread like this?

"Listen to yourself..talking down education.."

Its blatant shaming tactics. Sadly I have heard it before. No doubt we will hear it again.

Seems that is all you're hearing

Nyx I did read the rest of your postings (well I admit skimming a bit, please forgive me!)

Its just I have heard those at the top of Scottish Education say this and its just not right.

So in the modern parlance I WAS rather triggered at that phrasing!

I was no and I am still no.

I will never, ever vote SNP.

You could vote any way you want in an independent Scotland. :) There are certainly Labour voters for Yes, even the odd Tory.

I am hoping if there is another indyref we won’t have a biased question this time. I was shocked it was allowed last time.

Birdsfoot Non Scot here, what was the biased question?

In what way biased? It was agreed by the Electoral Commission.

How would you pose the question, second time round?

The question was, "Should Scotland be an independent country?" and the answers were "Yes" or "No". There was a quibble at the time that people like to say, "yes" so it was unfair.

ANY yes/no question is biased as people are always drawn to the ‘yes’. The ‘no’ camp will quickly discover arguing for a negative is much harder than arguing for a positive. I was shocked that the electoral commission allowed it - though lessons were learnt and a yes/no question was not allowed for the Brexit referendum.

I am tempted to say another referendum should ask the question the other way round ‘Should Scotland remain part of the United Kingdom?’ Yes/No just for the fun of watching the confusion

Realistically I think the ‘two statement’ approach with leave/remain like Brexit is better.

I think that with indy ref it was considered that the status quo is also favoured, so that cancelled out the perceived advantage of "Yes". I take your point about leave/remain perhaps being more balanced, but feel it advantages the status quo.

However, in practice, Yes lost and so did Remain, so...

having Brexit forced on us is a direct consequence of being in the union

And leaving the UK would crash us out of the EU - so what is your point?

We have no evidence that leaving the UK would have "crashed" us out of the EU. There was talk at the time of us being put into a metaphorical "holding pen" where the status quo would hold while negotiations took place, and we certainly have seen the EU being more than reasonable over Brexit. Scotland would be a net conributor to the EU, why would they reject us?

We were promised (threatened?) that the only way to be certain we'd be in the EU was to vote No. It was guaranteed a thousand times, yet less than two years later...

Had we voted Yes in 2014, we'd be securely in the EU now, and watching the shitshow south of the border with the same slack-jawed incredulity as the rest of the world. We'd be setting up refugee camps in the Borders and preparing for an influx of desperate English, Welsh and Northern Irish folk.

Instead, we face a catastrophic no deal Brexit in a matter of weeks, stuck with a Tory government and Boris bloody Johnson, because #Bettertogether.

On the issue of the wording of the question, there are some interesting polls here showing that a leave/remain question would get around 60% remain in the UK once don't knows are removed. This is in contrast to around 52/48 (at the latest count I think) for remaining in the UK if its a Yes/No question. Some insight into the unconscious bias that people have towards a positive response perhaps?

Hirples - we would be outside the EU - we have no central bank, no stable currency and would have to adopt the Euro and schengen.

The refugee camps would be around Carlisle - although in 2014 only Glasgow, Dundee and 5 other constituencies voted leave if the situation was slightly more Yes then there might be a lot of civil unrest with Edinburgh, Southern and Northern rural counties wanting to stay with the UK, the islands wanting independence from Scotland.

We would have had time to negotiate our EU membership while sorting out the break up with WM, it wouldn't be vote Yes and we're independent the next day. Absolutely no reason we couldn't sort out banking and currency issues at the same time. Joining the € would of course be impossible (though we could use it if we chose) and I can't see any reason we would have to join Schengen unless we chose that too. (Personally, I would.)

Can't see any reason for civil unrest in an indy Scotland either, it wouldn't be like the No Deal Brexit chaos we face in a matter of months, because we voted No.

Voted yes in 2014. Still yes.