If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

I voted no and would do again. Brexit shit storm has made things so difficult and I can’t see Scotland being independent any different.

I voted no and would still vote no. What I don't understand is why the SNP want independence as they don't want to be ruled by Westminster but seem to want to remain in Europe and be ruled by Brussels

Voted no in the indie referendum and leave in EU mainly to balance the number of YES people talking about voting remain purely to trigger indie ref 2 and will be voting no in any future indie ref2
I’m not a big fan of the EU anyway (I hold the left wing point of view that has been frustratingly quiet in the whole process) and am struggling with the new SNP enthusiasm for it (Salmond even a few years ago wasn’t a fan). They’ve blamed it for not being able to insist on outsourcing companies tendering for public sector work to have a living wage even though Boris Johnstone did exactly that for London when he was major. Likewise outsourcing ferries etc to the likes of SERCO which no progressive government should do.

I lived and worked in the EU before freedom of movement without a problem so can’t get massively worked up about that and if the trade barrier between us and the EU is going to be such a disaster then putting it up between us and our biggest customer - RoUK - makes no sense.

PS 1nutcracker English projects like HS2 are compensated for in Barnett Consequentials. I don’t know if they make up part of the deficit but we will get back £5.49billion for HS2

I don't know how people can seriously compare being ruled by Westminster to " being ruled by Brussels".
And compare working abroad pre-EU with trying to work there now, post Brexit.

thethethe can you explain it to me then? As far as I can see it's the same kind of thing

Ability of individual countries to veto major decisions the most obvious thing.

The PR nature of the EU parliament, plus the QMV of European Council decisions means that there is more of an effort to find consensus as opposed to riding roughshod over member countries for another.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us
Totally agree. This is why I hate that kind of nationalism. No and no from me and Brexit has only confirmed my worries. The western world is becoming divided by populist politics and it scares me. I see the simple point of would it be better to be in the EU and independent but that avoids the entire issue of the decisiveness of being separate from our closest neighbour and the border nightmare. Scunthorpe is a world away from Tunbridge Wells as is Melrose from central Glasgow. We need to learn to accept our differences across the UK and come together. Let’s celebrate Scottish culture and history without all this hate, blame and division.

Yes I very much see the SNP as part of the populist nationalist trend, I can’t see that any dividing ourselves into smaller groups is a good idea against globalised market forces.

As for Scotland having more weight in the EU than UK that’s hilarious - the leave vote has so many (including 38 percent in Scotland) precisely because a large section of UK society can’t see that our interests are well served by the European political structures.

no and still no

indyref was just horrible and intimidating.

Do not ever want to experience that again.

Voted remain in EU referendum but I accept the majority vote and believe brexit should go ahead as its undiplomatic not to go ahead. Would like a soft brexit though.

All that shite about not knowing what they were voting for - do your blooming research!

Voted No last time and would again, unless it was a choice between a non-EU UK and an EU member Indy Scotland. Agree with the PP who said the SNP are part of nationalist populism. I think we should all be working together as much as possible.

Also, as others have said, Leave means what exactly? Unless there was a clear plan for everything (e.g. currency, border control or lack thereof, tax, visa etc arrangements people who work and earn in England but live in Scotland or vice versa) it would just lead to more of these endless deal/no deal discussions.

Demographics will take care of it. The only group still polling a majority for No to independence are the over 55s, while the pro independence polling in other age groups is increasing.

Very few people are going to change their minds but demographically a tipping point is approaching.

Streetwise, you do realise that people get older each year?! With our ageing demographics, there will potentially be more anti independence votes, not fewer, as more people reach age and wisdom...!

“I voted no and would still vote no. What I don't understand is why the SNP want independence as they don't want to be ruled by Westminster but seem to want to remain in Europe and be ruled by Brussels ”

It’s not rule from Brussels though, it’s co-operation. All EU countries cede an element of control but it is the difference between controlling 90% and 40% of you law and economic policy compared to Westminster rule, which truly is rule.

Also the EU is optional, countries can choose to leave. Scotland can’t choose to leave the UK despite being a constituent member of it. The UK government are currently saying “you will not have a referendum and you will not leave”. I don’t understand how anyone can think that’s acceptable, and it is certainly illegal under international law.

All EU counties are independent and interdependent.

That said, when independence is achieved there should be a further referendum on whether Scotland’s future should be in the EU, or in EFTA like Norway and Switzerland.

“Streetwise, you do realise that people get older each year?! With our ageing demographics, there will potentially be more anti independence votes, not fewer, as more people reach age and wisdom...!”

There’s no evidence of that trend in polling on this question. Even the over 55 majority for independence is reducing as older people die and new people enter the 55 plus age group. Since 2013, support for independence has increased from 26% continually and now sits steadily at 48% and 49%.

Polling will soon be consistently above 50%, within a year I think.

“indyref was just horrible and intimidating.”

Do you mean the daily death threats to Salmond and Sturgeon and attempts to run their cars off the road? Other than that it was entirely peaceful other than the far right No vote celebration in George Square.

Other than that it was entirely peaceful

Those were some heavy rose tinted glasses.

It was. Your imagination doesn’t change the reality of what occurred.

Your "reality" isn't the only one. You are basically denying the feelings of half the population and dismissing them as unimportant and of no consequence just because you happen to think differently. And that's one of the most stupid comments I've heard in a long time. Was it lifted straight from volume one of the cybernat training school? Thy must deny that anyone else other than a nat has a valid feeling never mind an opinion? Still, goes with the territory eh?

The difference here is that I'm perfectly happy to agree that sending people death threats just because they have a different view from you and they are expressing it, is abhorrent, that also goes for the bomb threats etc from the Nat side.

I, like the PP said, haven't forgotten the threat and intimidation that anyone daring to express an alternative to voting yes were subjected to. Most people weren't able to express their opinion at all. So, either you were in the yes camp or you kept your mouth shut.

And I'm not going to continue a debate about it as there is no point. neither of us is going to be influenced by what the other has said. I'll just express myself in the ballot box where my vote counts exactly the same as anyone else's.

“that also goes for the bomb threats etc from the Nat side.

I, like the PP said, haven't forgotten the threat and intimidation that anyone daring to express an alternative to voting yes were subjected to.”

We are through the looking glass here. Beyond fanciful.

Not fanciful at all. Many no voters didn’t dare speak out such was the aggressiveness of the Yes message. My area was comfortably No, like pretty much all Scottish areas, yet people daren’t put up No posters in case their windows were put out. The few No thanks posters in the streets were quickly defaced. Maybe the same happened in yes areas to yes posters, I couldn’t say, but it wouldn’t surprise me given the toxic nature of the division during the referendum.

Not fanciful at all. Many no voters didn’t dare speak out such was the aggressiveness of the Yes message. My area was comfortably No, like pretty much all Scottish areas, yet people daren’t put up No posters in case their windows were put out. The few No thanks posters in the streets were quickly defaced. Maybe the same happened in yes areas to yes posters, I couldn’t say, but it wouldn’t surprise me given the toxic nature of the division during the referendum.

I was a staunch no. But now after Brexit and the Tory shitshow I'm leaning yes. If fing Boris fing Johnson is elected leader then I'm definitely for independence. And as soon as possible please.

Same here no till I die but Boris 😟give me nicola anyday