Where are all my No-mates?

[HamletsSister]

In despair. Absolutely in despair. Do we have to go through this again? And with such a long lead up to the referendum? Really? What happened to the settled will of the Scottish people?

@statisticallychallenged Will you help me get through this again? (Was Roseformeplease then).

I completely agree with your sentiment blowaway but there are an equal number of people I know thoroughly scunnered by the SNP hijacking the Saltire and accusing anyone not voting for them of being a closet "choose your preferred derogatory adjective Tory" - makes no sense to me since the only way I can see Labour (or any left leaning) UK wide government is if Scotland stays in the Union.

I agree with you partially blow. I have in the past pulled people up on here who have insulted Sturgeon's personal appearance.

However I don't put calling someone smug into the same category at all as it is not part of their personal appearance. Salmond is the absolute epitomy of smugness and you know what they say pride comes before a fall. have a look at his recent articles in the Times (i think) and tell me it's unfair to criticise him for being smug.

What my question really was was whether you as a moderate no voter care enough about not having another indyref enough to vote tactically, potentially against your usual voting preferences?

triximalixi Fair enough, I understood the use of "smug" incorrectly on this occasion. Criticism of behaviour is absolutely fair, but "X person looks smug" is different IYSWIM. tactical voting? That's just normal isn't it? No problem from me. You weigh up the options, what's most important to you and vote accordingly? Look at France? When did doing this become controversial? I am WAY behind, clearly.

howabout I completely agree that it isn't just our preference doing this, but my point is, be better than them.

If I am turned off by the angry language, it is no wonder we have so many people who just don't want to engage. And it won't win people over.

You misunderstand. There's absolutely nothing wrong with tactical voting.

What I'm wondering is whether, for the moderate no voter, their feelings on independence are strong enough for them to choose to vote tactically to try an avoid another referendum?

According to BBC News, the overall share of the vote is SNP 32%, Conservative 25% and Labour 20%, with a 12% increase in their vote share.

So there we go. Conservatives more popular than Labour in Scotland. Who'd have thought this was a possibility, even 5 years ago?

Apologies it's not clear from my post - it's the Tories who have increased their vote share by 12%.

Mine are, but only because I do not believe on this occasion my vote for labour would swing it to make corbyn pm. If I thought it would I couldn't do that because I feel it would harm not just us but England too.
The fact is that the mandate is so incredibly strong for the Tories in England that we probably will not make much impact. That is why I am willing to tactically vote labour to save the union and I hope others will tactically vote Tory to preserve it. The reason wd have been feeling the pinch here is snp cuts anyway and not the tories. Hollywood is the place that makes the difference for us day to day. That won't change til we get a scottish election.
Here is a graph of snp imposed council cuts in case it helps you persuade anyone in your areas

trixy I voted No and Remain.

I'm not sure I could bring myself to vote Conservative though.

If the SNP weren't so dead set on independence, I'd consider voting for them.

Flippinada. Do you mind me asking why you wouldn't? I am really interested. There seems to be a real knee jerk reaction to it up here. I know in the 80s Thatcher did not do enough for Scotland, but she is dead. She can't come back from that.
I am worried about the rhetoric I hear about the tories bein "evil" etc. and I just wonder how people have come to this conclusion.
Scotland was very conservative pre Thatcher.

Sorry flippinada it really isn't my business. If there wàs a delete button I would have removed. It is just something that really puzzles me.

I lived through Thatcher and swore I'd never vote Tory. However it seems to me that everyone has moved to the middle ground which is where Labour have lost out. Technically Libdem is where a lot of people sit but they as a party just can't seem to muster the credibility or respect from anyone. I've voted Labour all my life until last week where I gave the Tory my vote. It felt really strange but it's anyone but the SNP in my book. I'm not even anti independence really, just anti independence now and anti SNP.

I voted No and Remain too. However, I am less pessimistic about Brexit than I am of an independent Scotland (in or out of the EU) at the moment.

Funny you should say that. I think that is why à lot of people wouldn't vote for them. My parents had to move away from here becàuse of the Thatcher era. It left the word Tory as à dirty word which hopefully will change.
I grew up in Tory heartlands I honestly don't understand the tàlk of them being the far right. For me I find it làughable and so do my parents (who now vote tory) Nicola sounds like a nutter when she goes on about the far right to me. Not only does she make bigger cuts than the conservatives and not want to raise taxes of the rich to improve public services...her party often express xenophobic sentiments. It makes me giggle when she talks about the far right.
Despite the rhetoric there are loads of non evil tories around. Nearly all of whom are very proud of THE NHS, welfare system etc. Tories àre not as scary as Nikki would have you believe. It is just easy to capitalise on that fear here because of the Thatcher era.

No, I don't mind at all. I'm not Scottish BTW - originally from the NE but moved up to Scotland 20 years ago.

I'm a lifelong Labour Party member - used to be an activist but not done that for a while. My own political views are left of centre and I don't like the current government which is further to the right than I can remember in my lifetime. I'm particularly concerned about the direction we're going in re: Brexit.

About to have my tea but happy to update further!

I would like to think that the increase in conservative voters was because people felt strongly enough about No to vote tactically, but I am not confident that is the case.

I think economic uncertainty makes people nostalgic for a rose tinted past, and vote more conservatively (small c) anyway. I think a lot of people support Brexit, and want a union with the UK, because it seems like a safe thing to do.

Would I vote tactically? Yes, I think any vote is a compromise of interests and priorities. I wouldn't say that any of the parties have everything right!

I think they are slightly to the right of where I would like them to be too. I have voted labour in the past too. I just find corbyn too close to communism for my liking. I'll still be tactically voting for him. I'll do the Mhari black thing and hold my nose lol...

No need to apologise UpAwf!

I'm not a fan of Corbyn either. Very much the opposite! I'll be voting Labour but it's despite, not because of him - I like my local candidate and my seat is a two horse race between Labour and the SNP.

Cheers flippinada. I didn't want to pry that's all.

I might be in the same area as you then. It is a yesser area which isn't glasgow.

That's interesting, we might well be!

I voted No in both devolution referenda; No in the independence referendum and Remain in EU referendum. I have always voted Labour in Westminster elections but will switch to Conservative in this one, assuming the Conservatives have the best chance of taking the seat, which on the local results looks to be the case.

Leaving the EU is far less frightening a prospect than leaving the UK.

I will never vote SNP or support independence.

Given the vitriol which is heaped on Conservative mps and Conservative voters in many threads on MN I'm afraid calling Salmond "smug" pales in comparison.

the standards of debate on mumsnet are genteel compared to the stuff on twitter and facebook!

So true, the abuse I got on Twitter around indyref was utterly horrifying. I had folk tweeting the wings over Scotland account to get him and his followers to help stop me! I dared to disagree with the veracity of some of his so called facts you see

I'm having to go to the wedding of someone that I had to delete on FB becasue of the disgusting shite he was posting. It's going to be a fun wedding...