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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Really long one about my DM (handhold please) **Content warning - domestic violence**

128 replies

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:11

Hello, I'll try to keep this as brief as I can and even then it'll be long. I've cried writing this so please no picking at my spelling and grammar errors. I'm dyslexic and not as articulate as I'd like to be.

I also want to say before you do read I'm going to mention DV/SA/Child abuse, so please don't read anymore if this heavy stuff will upset you.

deep breath

My mother is in many ways wonderful, not the most empathic person but I love her.

My upbringing was however awful from years of extreme DV from my father, she was literally his daily punchbag, he verbally/mentally/sexually abused her and I almost saw her die at his hands from being strangled. He was verbally very abusive to me, but also sexually at times. He also had a friend from the pub who would sexually abuse me up until I was about 5. They were all alcoholics and this man would create fights between them to take me to bed. The worst memory I have is him asking me to season a dinner my mother made him, I kept asking, "enough?" And he said he'd tell me when. Once the chips had been drowned in salt and vinegar he called my dad into the living room and explained I'd purposely destroyed his meal, my father started kicking and punching my poor mother in a frenzy, so this monster could look like a hero by taking me to bed.

He'd also start fights when I wasn't there, I believe this sick bastard enjoyed watching my poor mother be beaten. Once he laughed and said, "how embarrassing" to her when she had a broken cheekbone and nose. He died when I was still too young to disclose what he did, but weirdly he went on to have a daughter he named my name, creepy fuck.

After years of abuse I finally decided in my teens after a ferocious attack on me from my father I was leaving. I had seen so much violence, begged her to leave since I was able to talk, I just couldn't do it anymore.

Now this is where it becomes hard between mum and I. I had survivors guilt my beatings weren't as severe as hers etc, but also, she would gaslight me throughout childhood saying she had to stay because I needed a dad.

I'd pray for him to die. I'd fantasise about killing him. If my mother would try and sleep in my bed for safety with me he would drag her out and beat and rape her.

He'd spit at or on us both. But still she was adamant it was me who needed a dad. When I was in my preteens I found our PC was riddled with child abuse images, one in particular I still get flashbacks seeing. I remember snooping how it was on there and He'd specifically searched a phrase that would bring up CSA images.

He'd threaten to kill us. He'd kick the living fuck out of our poor lovely dog.

But my whole life I was told by my mother I was the reason she was not leaving.

Sadly, we even had places to go. She just wouldn't leave. I understand the fear, but she also didn't want to be without him. She still maintains they had good times. I just must have not been privy to those since every good time I can remember then turned to them drinking and mother getting beaten up or worse.

Once I left at 14 after years of unexplained hospital admissions, years of things such as being ND missed, years of being made to lie and gaslit etc, years of living in poverty whilst they drank and smoked excessively. Years of being made to look on the outside like I was simply this weird, stupid, withdrawn idiot, it took me until I had my first DC at 19 to even remotely recover.

I got a job and a home, my mother stayed with her parents who she frankly terrified with her moodiness and unpleasant behaviour and entitlement towards their home and food etc, she never paid a penny towards a bill.

During my early years of motherhood she was cruel to me, basically projecting I was a shit mum, telling me constantly "I was just behaving like a sister". I had a fucking mortgage, full time job, I paid for childcare, we had days out, we baked, cooked, played, we had clean and calm surroundings, my DS is the loveliest kid I've ever known. I worked my arse off to get us living in an area with outstanding schools, for a single mother who left school at 13, with ND and trauma, I did fucking good. Messed up along the way, got into debts etc, but my boy is the loveliest person I know. She Once told her friends, "if I didn't like how she was looking after DGS, I'd take him off her and she'd not see him again", I was there. I've never been hurt so badly, so you're telling me you'd remove my son because you don't like my parenting when you'd let random men from your abusive alcoholic boyfriend put your toddler to bed? OK mum. Thanks.

Recent years the trauma of her life with him has set in and she became so dependent on me, but in a cruel way. She'd piss all over my boundaries and cry hysterically they'd been put in place.

I'd taken on a role of carer for my DGM, her mother, who lived with us 24/7. This included toileting her, helping her dress, every meal/snack/drink for her.

She wasn't an easy woman but I loved her and she wasn't someone who belonged in a nursing home, she was too rude to people, truth be told.

During this time I also had 2 children under 3 and it was the first lockdown, my DH still worked most days as a keyworker.

The only time to myself I had in 7 days over 24 hours was a Saturday morning. DH wasn't at work, so he'd get up and sort breakfast for gran and our DC, allowing me to have some sleep, (I was still night feeding our youngest) or have a bath and just relax. My mother truly begrudged me this, now I see this reads as silly, but please understand we have a very odd relationship. Mother had DH's number obviously and her mother's, but instead would call me 7 plus times, as she felt I was taking the piss out of DH on a Saturday morning. If I didn't pick up she'd pop round and create murder until I was out of the bath and dressed.

This became so unfair that during one of her doctors appointments I attended with her I began to cry, saying I could do 6 and a half days a week, night or day, but i just wanted some time not to be making drinks or breakfast (I obviously would get up and take my gran the toilet and get her washed and dressed prior to going off for a soak and podcast, that wasn't ever an issue!) Anyway, her doctor said to her, "DM, your DD is caring for 3 DC and your DM, why on earth are you sabotaging the one break a week she gets? Why is it so upsetting for you that she has 2 hours of time to paint her nails?" And mother cried, "nobody would have given me this time!" And stormed out. I apologised to doctor and left, she rang me a day later to say, "oversharingnamechanged, you can take a horse to the lake, but you can't force it to drink". My DM also took away consent after this for me to discuss anything with her doctor again.

Up until my gran died, she hounded me on the weekend mornings, once she died I stopped giving a fuck and just didn't even bother. Of course once I stopped caring or wanting that time to myself, she never rang me.

My mother will cry nobody has ever done anything for her. Let me tell you this.

Her dinner service, cutlery, utensils, tea towels, drink canisters, microwave, kettle, toaster, sofa, curtains, TV, TV unit, sideboard, nest of tables, nice bedding, mattress, rugs, multiple cars, plants, picture frames and mirrors, I have bought for her, she's chosen, I've paid. Things such as towels etc too, not as birthday or Christmas gifts, just because I want to make her happy. I know I've been stupid, but please remember, when your formative years are badly ingrained images of your mother's face hanging off, you don't really ever want to see your dm upset or want for anything. She once cried at me in our local supermarket when she was out of work she had no money to eat, so I took her for a food shop, once there she cried like a toddler she didn't need "fucking food" and just wanted gin, tonic and cigarettes. She even threw out the trolley a loaf of bread I'd put in, saying at least get that so you can have toast, but she refused and said she'd rather a cheap bottle of wine instead.
I was so embarrassed I caved.

Don't get me wrong, when she's had money she's been more than generous to me also, truly she has.

After my grandmother died, I lost a baby, it was quite complicated and I required surgery. There was one day my friend took our DC out for us so DH and I could cry and just process the shit that had happened. Plus the surgery had been quite painful so we'd planned to just have a cuddle, have some lunch, be together on the rare few hours we had child free.

I rang her prior, to explain that we were spending a day to just grieve. So just text if there are any issues and I'd get back to her, but please no ringing.

So she showed up, I'd been crying heavily and was in my bed, she walked in, came into my room and I said, "please, not today, its just for us". So she went downstairs in a mood, made herself a cup of tea and started moaning about me to DH, saying how unwelcome I made her feel and how she'd lost a DGC and I was being selfish. Now DH does love her and he treats her so well and he wouldn't ever snap at her because of her past with my father, but even he struggled to keep his cool. She really just can't accept boundaries.

Anyway, fast forward and its last Xmas, she had been desperately wanting a particular breed of dog, we discussed in depth why a pensioner dog would be easier or at least a smaller breed. No, she had a tantrum and I caved, got her the large breed she wanted. I also bought her a massive crate to train this puppy with and tons of other things. She off the bat let this puppy just go wild, unfortunately never used the crate or training techniques etc, so she has an oversized dog that she cannot control. This is relevant later on.

So come Christmas last year, she fell out with me. She refused to come for Xmas and it absolutely destroyed me. I've cooked her Xmas Dinner since I was 18 and for my gran, so I really struggled but I also said after that, after asking her repeatedly to change her mind and be spoken to like shit, that I'd not be ever again putting myself in this position and from now on Xmas was mine and my dh and our DC. She texted me on boxing day, "hi love, can you send DH with some roasties pls?" No acknowledgement of what she'd done, just wanting food.

I was just broken.

A few months ago she said she was going to put her unruly dog in kennels so she could come here for this coming Christmas. I explained after last year, I'm not hosting again. We'd visit Xmas day if she wanted, I'd even make her dinner up and her usual Xmas hamper, but it wasn't going to be the "stay the week and let me spoil you" event. She cried and said she understood why I was saying this, but since then has simply ignored it by asking, "So are we having turkey this year or shall we change it?" So she hasn't fully accepted that I will not be hosting.

This seems so silly and I can only apologise if you've read this so far.

Now, I understandably don't ask for child care or really for much. However I had an appointment last week which required just DH and I, no DC. His family are far away and being summer hols, no friends had the time. Often our oldest DC can step in if it's a ten minute shop or something but it was going to be almost 3 hours and it's his holiday too.

Last time my DC went to my mums her dog playfully bit my DC and really scared him, we've never sent them again without either DH or I there. I asked her if she could mind my youngest DC for 3 hours tops, but specified that the muzzle on the dog wasn't negotiable. She agreed to keep DDog muzzled.

For what was only in the end just over 2 hours, it wasn't a problem, and the dog can still drink etc or alternatively go in her cage.

I do love her DDog, she's just large and untrained and very playfully snappy.

So DH picked up our DC, but the dog wasn't muzzled and had been snapping at DC's fingers. Again, as large as the DDog is, she's still a pup and it's not aggressive, but she does have food aggression and I've seen her properly snap. I'm not comfortable with DDog being unmuzzled around my small DC.

DC came home, they'd had a lovely day but the dog hurt his finger.
I texted DM thanking her for having the DC, told her they had a lovely time but they won't be coming again, as she'd said the muzzle would be kept on. I asked her for space as I knew I'd get text abuse, so she replied with her, "take care" which is code for I'm being exiled.

The next day after I'd had some space I rang her, told her a funny story involving DC, then said I wasn't being horrible with not sending the kids again without DH or I, anyway, she started screaming and swearing at me, and after everything, after ever last opportunity to not be awful to me. I just told her I want NC. She said fine.

And the guilt already, (she only has me, no friends etc) but she couldn't keep my DC safe. Not for less than 3 hours. She kept screaming "nothing fucking happened!", but I honestly don't think it was her choice to take that risk. She's said repeatedly she doesn't know about the dog snapping my DC's fingers, but that's proving surely she can't be paying enough attention to not have a muzzle on her dog?

Anyway I've blocked her from everything, she's been blocked off whatsapp for years, if I was online she'd call me, jokingly "oh you're online!" But I do have other people I talk to there and it was stopping me having friendships with others because I'd be too anxious to open a bloody message in case she called me. I have another novel in me about her behaviour towards me having friends, but if I've painted a picture for you here, you'll probably have guessed she doesn't like me having friendships. One of her favourite lines is, "if you paid the same attention to your DC as you do your friends" which is grossly unfair but has been something she's weaponised to make me feel guilty as a mum.

She has been cruel and grabby with her own no ex- friends and I'm deeply embarrassed by how she's treated them.

But now, I'm in hell with guilt and sadness. She doesn't have anyone but me.
I will mentally torture myself over this.

I also should add I'm due a baby in a month or so and she's been crying at me 24/7 daily over her awful life, I asked her a few months ago, (my pregnancy is very high risk for both baby and I) could she just kindly just let me have a bit of time to get through my scary pregnancy without making unnecessary (and it always is) unnecessary drama for me to sort.

It's always me being spoken to like shit, to then be told I'm abusive to her like my dad was, I bully her with my boundaries and it's unfair of me to ask for space from calls when she has nobody else.

Every therapist I've had has told me it's an unsustainable relationship, her doctors have, she was horrible to my grandmother. But yet to me she's my hero, the woman who dealt with so much but still worked several jobs and kept my clothes clean etc.

The lying, gaslighting, shouting at me, using me for money and anything else, it's just been my whole life.

But I really think the guilt of not checking she's okay is so crippling I might need more bloody counselling over it.

If you even read this, thank you. If you're NC with your own DM and can give me advice, thank you.

Another anxious apology for length on this post. This was as brief as I could make it and I've left out huge massive details.

OP posts:
gettingolderbutcooler · 29/07/2023 11:28

Hi
Sorry but what are you asking?

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:31

Will it get easier, I think is what I want to know. Will I stop feeling like I'm letting her down by cutting her off?

OP posts:
AgathaMystery · 29/07/2023 11:35

I think your mum is never going to be okay.

once you have accepted that, perhaps the guilt will ease.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/07/2023 11:46

"Every therapist I've had has told me it's an unsustainable relationship, her doctors have, she was horrible to my grandmother. But yet to me she's my hero, the woman who dealt with so much but still worked several jobs and kept my clothes clean etc."

These therapists are correct and that is the only "good" things you can say about her. She chose to stay with her abusive H and blamed you for doing so. Making your responsible for her actions and choices was reprehensible; you were but a child at the time. Your mother got you to deal with everything in her life and uses you also as her convenient emotional dumping ground/punchbag

You keep clothes clean too; do you regard your own self as a hero?.
Many people also work more than one job too; your mother is not better for doing that either.

How is your mother at all a hero to you?. All she has ever cared about is her own self and getting her own needs met. She is a supremely selfish person who cannot be bothered with anyone or anything else, even her dog who is unsurprisingly also out of control. You've in turn minimised this by stating
"I do love her DDog, she's just large and untrained and very playfully snappy". This dog went for your child and bit him. I would not call this animal playfully snappy either. Your mother leaves chaos in her wake and indeed demands and equally expects you to clear up after her mess. Your mistake here has been going along with her mad requests; particularly with regards to the dog and crate that you paid for.

Children are programmed anyway to love their parents, no matter how crap they actually are and yours in particular are at the extreme end of abusive. Doubtless their own parents acted similarly to them and they repeated their own childhoods on you. They should be in prison for what they have done.

Do you think your mother feels any remorse for how she has treated you to date; no not a bit of it. So why do you feel guilty?. Deal with all your feelings of fear, obligation and guilt through therapy and have a read too of the Out of the Fog website. Regardless of why she is the ways she is (she likely has some forms of personality disorder which are both untreated and untreatable) its not your fault she is the ways she is and you did not make her that way either.

Rebuild both your life and boundaries without her in it day to day. Do not keep on subjecting your kids, let alone your own self, to someone as toxic and abusive as your mother is.

I presume you've always hung onto the hope that she will change, become nice and say sorry. I am so sorry to tell you that this is extremely unlikely a scenario to ever happen.

Would you have let a friend treat you like this?. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend and your mother is no different.

Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationships you should have had with your mother and father rather than the ones you actually got. That is part of the healing process. You only let yourself down by continuing any form of contact with her.

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:47

It'll definitely help, accepting she's broken.
Thank you

OP posts:
Motnight · 29/07/2023 11:49

Your mother is an awful person, Op.

I went NC with my mother, she too wasn't nice although nothing like your mum. The guilt lessened over the years. It was the right thing to do for me.

Ukholidaysaregreat · 29/07/2023 11:50

I think don't let her know you want time alone. Whenever you say things like that it sets her off trying to get into your time. She sounds jealous of your good life that you worked hard for. I would keep your boundaries up and don't feel guilty about your mother. She is very demanding and I think she knows she is being too demanding. Hope all goes well with your new baby. You should be really proud of yourself for creating a loving home for your children, nothing like the one you had to grow up in.

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:52

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for such a kind and thoughful reply. Youre 100% correct and I think my poor DH and friends must be up the wall with how upset she makes me, for me to not break the cycle. I will read that website right now.
I can't continue to spiral. I know I've made terrible enabling mistakes that I justify to myself, but it's not defensible. I'm just being pathetic.
It is so much easier for me to give in than it is for me to stand my ground.
And you're correct about personality disorders, my therapists have all tactfully told me the same.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/07/2023 11:53

She is well and truly broken and does not want to be fixed by anyone. Abusers too blame everyone else but their own selves and indeed this is what she has done. She's never sought the necessary help and in addition made you her scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

You cannot heal any of her mother wound, a wound that her own mother (herself abusive also) inflicted. Trying to help your mother at all has not helped you in the process; doing that has only given you a false sense of control.

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:55

The replies here are beyond anything I expected. I was prepared to be told I was being awful to her or that it was my stupidity that has caused this.

Thank you for taking time to read and your comments, genuinely I'm very grateful for them all.

OP posts:
SquishyGloopyBum · 29/07/2023 11:55

You are deep in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).

She's not a good person, she was complicit in your abuse and she is abusive to you now as well.

You should never have got her a dog.

Honestly op, you need to maintain no contact and seek help for this.

She won't ever change. She is not a good person. You owe her nothing. Focus on your own family now.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/07/2023 11:58

You need to completely withdraw from your mother with she being unable to contact you via any form of communication. No contact is precisely this and you cannot reason with someone as patently unreasonable as your mother is.

Be prepared for more emotional rubbish from her slung your way. You may well hear about she going into hospital to have "tests" for some previously unknown health issue. She may also decide to use some well meaning but easily manipulated relative to do her dirty work for her; these people are her flying monkeys. They should be ignored by you. All this could be done by her in order to get you back into her dysfunctional world.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/07/2023 11:58

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:31

Will it get easier, I think is what I want to know. Will I stop feeling like I'm letting her down by cutting her off?

If you do it 'properly', ie, she can never get in touch with you ever again (is it possible to move house?), then you'll start feeling better. And once you don't have to dread what shit is going to be flung your way this time your phone bleeps or there's somebody at the door, you'll enjoy the peace of mind.

She's profoundly damaged in multiple ways. Some sound inbuilt, some are likely a result of her childhood environment which led her to her adult relationships, many as a result of her horrifically abusive husband/boyfriend. You can't fix any of those things. You can't turn back time and have her as a well adjusted, happy person because in all likelihood, she never has been.

All you can do is protect yourself and your children from it.

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 12:09

This FOG I've never heard of before and it's genuinely felt like a light bulb moment.
I can't thank you enough.

OP posts:
Madamecastafiore · 29/07/2023 12:11

It's helpful to remember she'll never change and be the supportive mother that you want. You can either deal with her moods and unacceptable behaviour or protect yourself and your children by completely cutting contact and putting yourself and your family first.

It does get easier, you do learn to compartmentalise and you will grieve for what you'll never have but over time you will forget that she's there. Certain things will trigger memories and the sense of loss you feel not having the 'normal' family and upbringing but eventually you'll be able to deal with those moments. Try to get some counselling to help with this process and remember that she chose her life, she wasn't a hero for working and making sure you had clean clothes, she was complicit in the abuse that you suffered by not getting you away from your father and his friends.

CatherinedeBourgh · 29/07/2023 12:23

OP, think of this a different way.

When you were a child, and your father was abusing your mother, what did you want her to do? Put up with it or leave and never see him again? It's leave, but she wouldn't because whatever excuse she came up with, she was totally codependent on him and unable to prioritise you and your safety.

On a different scale, but you are now in the role of your mother, and your mother in the role of your father. She is constantly abusing you, but you put up with it. You are now at the point your mother was at when she didn't prioritise your safety. But you've made the opposite choice, you have chosen to prioritise your dc's safety.

The only thing you should feel is proud to have broken the cycle.

Well done.

Motnight · 29/07/2023 12:25

My DH was in his 50s before he realised how absolutely terrible a person his mother was, Op. It's really hard, especially when they too have been through awful times.

InSpainTheRain · 29/07/2023 12:27

I dont really know what to say OP, that is terrible treatment by people who you should have been able to trust. Remember you can't change people only your reaction to them. Try to let go of the guilt but I have no advice on how you do that. I'm sorry

cracktheshutters · 29/07/2023 12:27

I am absolutely in awe of how you even get up and function on a morning considering all you’ve been through. I am NC with my dad, although he is absolutely nowhere near as bad as your DM, I think it’s important that you need to acknowledge she will never even change and cannot be reasoned with. The guilt still hits sometimes, especially around holidays like Xmas, Father’s Day etc but the relief of not having to deal with him and his abuse is immense. I wrote a letter to explain I wanted no more contact and why, he went in a huff and never spoke to me again. It’s been around 2 years. Follow josh Connolly on Instagram, his videos are very eye opening, he’s very supportive of those of us with toxic parents and when I’m
feeling particularly guilty or rubbish I read some of the comments, it’s sometimes just nice to be reminded that there are lots of us in the same boat. Good luck with your new DC and take care x

RedHelenB · 29/07/2023 12:38

Your mum's horrid. Your dad's horrid. By dwelling on them you aren't being the best mum you can be for your children. Put the past in the past and concentrate on the present and future.

Sunshineandrainbow · 29/07/2023 12:40

I have no advice but I have read your post.
You are an amazing person to survive what you have gone through and I wish you all the very best.

Randobelia · 29/07/2023 12:51

"Every therapist I've had has told me it's an unsustainable relationship, her doctors have, she was horrible to my grandmother. "

Listen to them.They have met so many people and would not say this if they thought there was any slim chance of it not being true.

They are right. You sound like an absolutely amazing person, especially the way you talk about your first DC.

Block, no contact, focus on YOU, you are important!! And your DH and your DC and your own life.

What you have been through is harrowing. Focus on you and your new little one and your family.

Timeforchangeithink · 29/07/2023 12:53

Having been brought up in an abusive household I get it, but I what I don't get is how you can let your DC be a part of this life. Don't kid yourself they don't see or understand what's going on. Don't you wish your mother had protected you and kept you safe? You are allowing your DC to be in a similar situation without the SA but they see everything else. You are all worth more than this. She doesn't care and won't change. Put you, your DC and your DH first. Sorry but going NC seems obvious to me no matter how hard it is. Tough talk, I know but you sound an amazing person, you all deserve better.

Emmamoo89 · 29/07/2023 12:59

You're amazing for everything you've been through. Keep them blocked and concentrate on your family x

ExtraOnions · 29/07/2023 13:04

You are not responsible for the abuse your father metered out.
You are not responsible for fixing your mother
You are not responsible for the choices your mother has made
Its ok not to like our parents
It’s ok not to love our parents
it’s ok to put yourself first
You can choose not to feel guilty

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