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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Really long one about my DM (handhold please) **Content warning - domestic violence**

128 replies

Oversharingnamechanged · 29/07/2023 11:11

Hello, I'll try to keep this as brief as I can and even then it'll be long. I've cried writing this so please no picking at my spelling and grammar errors. I'm dyslexic and not as articulate as I'd like to be.

I also want to say before you do read I'm going to mention DV/SA/Child abuse, so please don't read anymore if this heavy stuff will upset you.

deep breath

My mother is in many ways wonderful, not the most empathic person but I love her.

My upbringing was however awful from years of extreme DV from my father, she was literally his daily punchbag, he verbally/mentally/sexually abused her and I almost saw her die at his hands from being strangled. He was verbally very abusive to me, but also sexually at times. He also had a friend from the pub who would sexually abuse me up until I was about 5. They were all alcoholics and this man would create fights between them to take me to bed. The worst memory I have is him asking me to season a dinner my mother made him, I kept asking, "enough?" And he said he'd tell me when. Once the chips had been drowned in salt and vinegar he called my dad into the living room and explained I'd purposely destroyed his meal, my father started kicking and punching my poor mother in a frenzy, so this monster could look like a hero by taking me to bed.

He'd also start fights when I wasn't there, I believe this sick bastard enjoyed watching my poor mother be beaten. Once he laughed and said, "how embarrassing" to her when she had a broken cheekbone and nose. He died when I was still too young to disclose what he did, but weirdly he went on to have a daughter he named my name, creepy fuck.

After years of abuse I finally decided in my teens after a ferocious attack on me from my father I was leaving. I had seen so much violence, begged her to leave since I was able to talk, I just couldn't do it anymore.

Now this is where it becomes hard between mum and I. I had survivors guilt my beatings weren't as severe as hers etc, but also, she would gaslight me throughout childhood saying she had to stay because I needed a dad.

I'd pray for him to die. I'd fantasise about killing him. If my mother would try and sleep in my bed for safety with me he would drag her out and beat and rape her.

He'd spit at or on us both. But still she was adamant it was me who needed a dad. When I was in my preteens I found our PC was riddled with child abuse images, one in particular I still get flashbacks seeing. I remember snooping how it was on there and He'd specifically searched a phrase that would bring up CSA images.

He'd threaten to kill us. He'd kick the living fuck out of our poor lovely dog.

But my whole life I was told by my mother I was the reason she was not leaving.

Sadly, we even had places to go. She just wouldn't leave. I understand the fear, but she also didn't want to be without him. She still maintains they had good times. I just must have not been privy to those since every good time I can remember then turned to them drinking and mother getting beaten up or worse.

Once I left at 14 after years of unexplained hospital admissions, years of things such as being ND missed, years of being made to lie and gaslit etc, years of living in poverty whilst they drank and smoked excessively. Years of being made to look on the outside like I was simply this weird, stupid, withdrawn idiot, it took me until I had my first DC at 19 to even remotely recover.

I got a job and a home, my mother stayed with her parents who she frankly terrified with her moodiness and unpleasant behaviour and entitlement towards their home and food etc, she never paid a penny towards a bill.

During my early years of motherhood she was cruel to me, basically projecting I was a shit mum, telling me constantly "I was just behaving like a sister". I had a fucking mortgage, full time job, I paid for childcare, we had days out, we baked, cooked, played, we had clean and calm surroundings, my DS is the loveliest kid I've ever known. I worked my arse off to get us living in an area with outstanding schools, for a single mother who left school at 13, with ND and trauma, I did fucking good. Messed up along the way, got into debts etc, but my boy is the loveliest person I know. She Once told her friends, "if I didn't like how she was looking after DGS, I'd take him off her and she'd not see him again", I was there. I've never been hurt so badly, so you're telling me you'd remove my son because you don't like my parenting when you'd let random men from your abusive alcoholic boyfriend put your toddler to bed? OK mum. Thanks.

Recent years the trauma of her life with him has set in and she became so dependent on me, but in a cruel way. She'd piss all over my boundaries and cry hysterically they'd been put in place.

I'd taken on a role of carer for my DGM, her mother, who lived with us 24/7. This included toileting her, helping her dress, every meal/snack/drink for her.

She wasn't an easy woman but I loved her and she wasn't someone who belonged in a nursing home, she was too rude to people, truth be told.

During this time I also had 2 children under 3 and it was the first lockdown, my DH still worked most days as a keyworker.

The only time to myself I had in 7 days over 24 hours was a Saturday morning. DH wasn't at work, so he'd get up and sort breakfast for gran and our DC, allowing me to have some sleep, (I was still night feeding our youngest) or have a bath and just relax. My mother truly begrudged me this, now I see this reads as silly, but please understand we have a very odd relationship. Mother had DH's number obviously and her mother's, but instead would call me 7 plus times, as she felt I was taking the piss out of DH on a Saturday morning. If I didn't pick up she'd pop round and create murder until I was out of the bath and dressed.

This became so unfair that during one of her doctors appointments I attended with her I began to cry, saying I could do 6 and a half days a week, night or day, but i just wanted some time not to be making drinks or breakfast (I obviously would get up and take my gran the toilet and get her washed and dressed prior to going off for a soak and podcast, that wasn't ever an issue!) Anyway, her doctor said to her, "DM, your DD is caring for 3 DC and your DM, why on earth are you sabotaging the one break a week she gets? Why is it so upsetting for you that she has 2 hours of time to paint her nails?" And mother cried, "nobody would have given me this time!" And stormed out. I apologised to doctor and left, she rang me a day later to say, "oversharingnamechanged, you can take a horse to the lake, but you can't force it to drink". My DM also took away consent after this for me to discuss anything with her doctor again.

Up until my gran died, she hounded me on the weekend mornings, once she died I stopped giving a fuck and just didn't even bother. Of course once I stopped caring or wanting that time to myself, she never rang me.

My mother will cry nobody has ever done anything for her. Let me tell you this.

Her dinner service, cutlery, utensils, tea towels, drink canisters, microwave, kettle, toaster, sofa, curtains, TV, TV unit, sideboard, nest of tables, nice bedding, mattress, rugs, multiple cars, plants, picture frames and mirrors, I have bought for her, she's chosen, I've paid. Things such as towels etc too, not as birthday or Christmas gifts, just because I want to make her happy. I know I've been stupid, but please remember, when your formative years are badly ingrained images of your mother's face hanging off, you don't really ever want to see your dm upset or want for anything. She once cried at me in our local supermarket when she was out of work she had no money to eat, so I took her for a food shop, once there she cried like a toddler she didn't need "fucking food" and just wanted gin, tonic and cigarettes. She even threw out the trolley a loaf of bread I'd put in, saying at least get that so you can have toast, but she refused and said she'd rather a cheap bottle of wine instead.
I was so embarrassed I caved.

Don't get me wrong, when she's had money she's been more than generous to me also, truly she has.

After my grandmother died, I lost a baby, it was quite complicated and I required surgery. There was one day my friend took our DC out for us so DH and I could cry and just process the shit that had happened. Plus the surgery had been quite painful so we'd planned to just have a cuddle, have some lunch, be together on the rare few hours we had child free.

I rang her prior, to explain that we were spending a day to just grieve. So just text if there are any issues and I'd get back to her, but please no ringing.

So she showed up, I'd been crying heavily and was in my bed, she walked in, came into my room and I said, "please, not today, its just for us". So she went downstairs in a mood, made herself a cup of tea and started moaning about me to DH, saying how unwelcome I made her feel and how she'd lost a DGC and I was being selfish. Now DH does love her and he treats her so well and he wouldn't ever snap at her because of her past with my father, but even he struggled to keep his cool. She really just can't accept boundaries.

Anyway, fast forward and its last Xmas, she had been desperately wanting a particular breed of dog, we discussed in depth why a pensioner dog would be easier or at least a smaller breed. No, she had a tantrum and I caved, got her the large breed she wanted. I also bought her a massive crate to train this puppy with and tons of other things. She off the bat let this puppy just go wild, unfortunately never used the crate or training techniques etc, so she has an oversized dog that she cannot control. This is relevant later on.

So come Christmas last year, she fell out with me. She refused to come for Xmas and it absolutely destroyed me. I've cooked her Xmas Dinner since I was 18 and for my gran, so I really struggled but I also said after that, after asking her repeatedly to change her mind and be spoken to like shit, that I'd not be ever again putting myself in this position and from now on Xmas was mine and my dh and our DC. She texted me on boxing day, "hi love, can you send DH with some roasties pls?" No acknowledgement of what she'd done, just wanting food.

I was just broken.

A few months ago she said she was going to put her unruly dog in kennels so she could come here for this coming Christmas. I explained after last year, I'm not hosting again. We'd visit Xmas day if she wanted, I'd even make her dinner up and her usual Xmas hamper, but it wasn't going to be the "stay the week and let me spoil you" event. She cried and said she understood why I was saying this, but since then has simply ignored it by asking, "So are we having turkey this year or shall we change it?" So she hasn't fully accepted that I will not be hosting.

This seems so silly and I can only apologise if you've read this so far.

Now, I understandably don't ask for child care or really for much. However I had an appointment last week which required just DH and I, no DC. His family are far away and being summer hols, no friends had the time. Often our oldest DC can step in if it's a ten minute shop or something but it was going to be almost 3 hours and it's his holiday too.

Last time my DC went to my mums her dog playfully bit my DC and really scared him, we've never sent them again without either DH or I there. I asked her if she could mind my youngest DC for 3 hours tops, but specified that the muzzle on the dog wasn't negotiable. She agreed to keep DDog muzzled.

For what was only in the end just over 2 hours, it wasn't a problem, and the dog can still drink etc or alternatively go in her cage.

I do love her DDog, she's just large and untrained and very playfully snappy.

So DH picked up our DC, but the dog wasn't muzzled and had been snapping at DC's fingers. Again, as large as the DDog is, she's still a pup and it's not aggressive, but she does have food aggression and I've seen her properly snap. I'm not comfortable with DDog being unmuzzled around my small DC.

DC came home, they'd had a lovely day but the dog hurt his finger.
I texted DM thanking her for having the DC, told her they had a lovely time but they won't be coming again, as she'd said the muzzle would be kept on. I asked her for space as I knew I'd get text abuse, so she replied with her, "take care" which is code for I'm being exiled.

The next day after I'd had some space I rang her, told her a funny story involving DC, then said I wasn't being horrible with not sending the kids again without DH or I, anyway, she started screaming and swearing at me, and after everything, after ever last opportunity to not be awful to me. I just told her I want NC. She said fine.

And the guilt already, (she only has me, no friends etc) but she couldn't keep my DC safe. Not for less than 3 hours. She kept screaming "nothing fucking happened!", but I honestly don't think it was her choice to take that risk. She's said repeatedly she doesn't know about the dog snapping my DC's fingers, but that's proving surely she can't be paying enough attention to not have a muzzle on her dog?

Anyway I've blocked her from everything, she's been blocked off whatsapp for years, if I was online she'd call me, jokingly "oh you're online!" But I do have other people I talk to there and it was stopping me having friendships with others because I'd be too anxious to open a bloody message in case she called me. I have another novel in me about her behaviour towards me having friends, but if I've painted a picture for you here, you'll probably have guessed she doesn't like me having friendships. One of her favourite lines is, "if you paid the same attention to your DC as you do your friends" which is grossly unfair but has been something she's weaponised to make me feel guilty as a mum.

She has been cruel and grabby with her own no ex- friends and I'm deeply embarrassed by how she's treated them.

But now, I'm in hell with guilt and sadness. She doesn't have anyone but me.
I will mentally torture myself over this.

I also should add I'm due a baby in a month or so and she's been crying at me 24/7 daily over her awful life, I asked her a few months ago, (my pregnancy is very high risk for both baby and I) could she just kindly just let me have a bit of time to get through my scary pregnancy without making unnecessary (and it always is) unnecessary drama for me to sort.

It's always me being spoken to like shit, to then be told I'm abusive to her like my dad was, I bully her with my boundaries and it's unfair of me to ask for space from calls when she has nobody else.

Every therapist I've had has told me it's an unsustainable relationship, her doctors have, she was horrible to my grandmother. But yet to me she's my hero, the woman who dealt with so much but still worked several jobs and kept my clothes clean etc.

The lying, gaslighting, shouting at me, using me for money and anything else, it's just been my whole life.

But I really think the guilt of not checking she's okay is so crippling I might need more bloody counselling over it.

If you even read this, thank you. If you're NC with your own DM and can give me advice, thank you.

Another anxious apology for length on this post. This was as brief as I could make it and I've left out huge massive details.

OP posts:
TheoTheopolis23 · 30/07/2023 22:23

I do still wonder if she was truly so naive about that CSAbuser she allowed to do your bedtime as a very young child ..... If not, she is one sick in the head, depraved individual.

And equally so, your father's sexual abuse.

TheoTheopolis23 · 30/07/2023 22:32

There is also something so off about the repeated and apparently unnecessary driving down a road you requested she not drive down because it was the scene of your rape.

If that happened to my dd, in addition to making sure it was reported* (if she agreed) I wouldn't go near the scene. I'd find it too upsetting myself, let alone her asking not go there.

As category says, there is something really seriously wrong with her.

*To be completely honest, I probably wouldn't report it if I thought the chances of conviction were very low; because myself and her Dad (if she could identify the rapist) would arrange to have him, at the very least, beaten to the point of life changing injuries, or killed. (This is easy if you know the right people in the crazy little piece of land that is N.I.).

ClementWeatherToday · 30/07/2023 23:40

I don't think your mother can bear to see you experience good things in your life. It's not simply that she's jealous, as a PP described she actually goes out of her way to cause you additional harm herself.

Sabotaging your only time to yourself when you were night feeding was very mean of her - what she did (repeatedly) driving you down that road is absolutely horrific. The thing she said to the doctor (that nobody would have given her that time) was very, very telling. She didn't have it so she doesn't want you to have it either. This will apply to everything in your life. She had trauma from rape, so she WANTS you to have that too. I'm so sorry.

You have tried to help her, which is admirable of you. But you can't (no one can). There is a reason she has "only got you", which is her abusive behaviour towards everyone in her life. You are allowed to protect yourself (and your family) from further harm by removing yourself from her damaging behaviour too.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 00:10

Sabotaging your only time to yourself when you were night feeding was very mean of her - what she did (repeatedly) driving you down that road is absolutely horrific. The thing she said to the doctor (that nobody would have given her that time) was very, very telling. She didn't have it so she doesn't want you to have it either. This will apply to everything in your life. She had trauma from rape,so she WANTS you to have that too. I'm so sorry.

Having read this, I would add - encouraging you to stay after the first violent attack from your father, even though she knew his attacks on her were repetitive .... And encouraging you to stay with your abusive (sometimes physically) first boyfriend; it seems like she wanted you to experience repeated domestic violence and abuse too.

I suppose if you did too, it meant you didn't get "better" than her, and it made it like it was normal; what she experienced and stayed in spite of.
If you didn't accept that & didn't stay with that, she had failed in her life and it wasn't normal.

I'm actually surprised she left with you back then.. was it because she thought you were a restraining presence to some degree on your father and he might actually kill her if there was noone else there? Or did she already rely on you for getting her/them alcohol, cleaning, getting groceries etc. and knew he wouldn't do it and it would all be left to her. Or was she perhaps affected by how she'd look to family and friends if she let her 14 yr old leave on her own.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 00:15

I'd reiterate the nature of her relationships with men however.... Putting the CS Abuser who provoked violent arguments in her home and laughed at her injuries etc on a pedestal, keeping in touch with your abusive first boyfriend herself, staying with a man who reoeatedy beat and also raped her, who almost killed her at least once; it seems like she so desperately wants to bond with men, she seems so deferential and so in thrall to them etc.

Grumpusaurus · 31/07/2023 00:52

OP, the more you reveal, the more it is becoming shockingly obvious that your mother is a sadistic abuser herself. It is not far fetched at all, in fact, very, very likely that she may very well facilitated your abuse. Do not ever see her as this poor victim. You owe her no special treatment for her own masochistic behaviour to stay despite having options to leave. Instead, you need to protect yourself and your children from this monster! Don't let your children be involved with this horrendous person! Keep them safe. Away from her. You would not let a pedophile around your kids. She is no better.

It is unbelievably shocking that she actively caused your domestic abuse by letting this boyfriend come in after you had specifically told her of what he did to you. It feels as though she wanted you to suffer as much as her and not have a safe life free from violence. What kind of mother would do this to her child!

Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 08:53

TheoTheopolis23 · 30/07/2023 22:32

There is also something so off about the repeated and apparently unnecessary driving down a road you requested she not drive down because it was the scene of your rape.

If that happened to my dd, in addition to making sure it was reported* (if she agreed) I wouldn't go near the scene. I'd find it too upsetting myself, let alone her asking not go there.

As category says, there is something really seriously wrong with her.

*To be completely honest, I probably wouldn't report it if I thought the chances of conviction were very low; because myself and her Dad (if she could identify the rapist) would arrange to have him, at the very least, beaten to the point of life changing injuries, or killed. (This is easy if you know the right people in the crazy little piece of land that is N.I.).

If God forbid anything happened to any of my children I'd unleash a level of horror that I'd doubt until that moment I was capable of. But I know, I would.

You sound brilliant ❤

OP posts:
Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 09:09

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 00:15

I'd reiterate the nature of her relationships with men however.... Putting the CS Abuser who provoked violent arguments in her home and laughed at her injuries etc on a pedestal, keeping in touch with your abusive first boyfriend herself, staying with a man who reoeatedy beat and also raped her, who almost killed her at least once; it seems like she so desperately wants to bond with men, she seems so deferential and so in thrall to them etc.

It is a belief some how women don't deserve better, but what makes this so strange is my grandmother very much was treated wonderfully from her father and her husband, my lovely grandfather who was probably one of the most lovely, gentle, kindest man I've ever met.
He adored my mother, they both did.
What is crushingly sad is when my gran lived with me I asked her, not in a horrible way, but why DM and I couldn't have lived with them and was she scared of my father so they made no fuss.
She told me that's not the case, they even got a restraining order in place, but DM chose to return back until they just accepted they couldn't do anything.
They would have helped her financially to get her a place of her own, however, that isn't what she wanted.
Even when I found mother and I the house we moved into when I was a teenager, both my parents asked me could my father come with us for a fresh start. I told them that I'd make arrangements to live elsewhere and I actually name dropped a local heroin dealer who's house I'd been to a few times. And she believed I would. I can't even imagine knowing my DC knowing the local heroin dealer, let alone imagining they're on good enough terms for my teen DD to show up one day and casually move in. That was never my plan and I wish now with the hindsight of an adult I'd just gone and lived with my DGPs, but I was so scared to worry them, I never even told them the violence was happening to me until many years after grandad died.

Reading all this back is sobering but awful.
It very much feels as though I'm writing about someone I can't imagine, let alone be. But that's me. I'm that teen girl casually suggesting I'd live in a crack den.

I'm in a place now I'd barely know someone who could sell me a vape, let alone be an acquaintance of a class A dealer.

OP posts:
Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 09:19

Grumpusaurus · 31/07/2023 00:52

OP, the more you reveal, the more it is becoming shockingly obvious that your mother is a sadistic abuser herself. It is not far fetched at all, in fact, very, very likely that she may very well facilitated your abuse. Do not ever see her as this poor victim. You owe her no special treatment for her own masochistic behaviour to stay despite having options to leave. Instead, you need to protect yourself and your children from this monster! Don't let your children be involved with this horrendous person! Keep them safe. Away from her. You would not let a pedophile around your kids. She is no better.

It is unbelievably shocking that she actively caused your domestic abuse by letting this boyfriend come in after you had specifically told her of what he did to you. It feels as though she wanted you to suffer as much as her and not have a safe life free from violence. What kind of mother would do this to her child!

Thanks for your reply.
I keep thinking if she ever stumbled across this and read this thread it realising she was the mum, it would kill her off. She'd be crushed to read that's not just what has happened, but also what she's done. Although if I sent it to her she'd likely tell me, "what a bitch that mum is, see, at least I'm not that bad!"

She'd deny it all at first, lie, gaslight, then the pressure would get to her and she'd crack and start screaming she doesn't know why she does it, or has done it.
My DH keeps reiterating her motive to why isn't massively relevant, it's the fact she does.

I sound weak saying this, which is okay, but even if everything she had ever done was from a place of the worst intention, I'd forgive it, truly. If she agreed to reflect and maybe look at some kind of therapy, I could forgive all of it.
But to not only not break her abuse cycle, to continue to rant and rave at me for asking for the bare bones of respect to not be yelled at or sworn at, screamed at, to not even manage to get through a phone call without treating me like that, unforgivable, the total lack of effort.
If I stand up for myself, I'm the bully, if I tell her to not talk to me a certain way, she tells me I do it to her even though I haven't.
She will deny the grass is green and the sky is blue, but she'll crack under the pressure and blame me for why she had to say it.
It is a complete mindfuck.

OP posts:
Comtesse · 31/07/2023 09:48

She was a terrible mum when you were younger and she’s still a terrible mum.

Listen to your DH, he sounds very sensible.

Who’s more important - your children or your mum? Your kids every time.

Pottyberry · 31/07/2023 10:21

Oh OP, your mum sounds incredibly selfish and manipulative. I'm sorry for all you have suffered. Telling a child that you are staying with an abuser because they "need a dad" is awful.

I can well understand your sadness. The guilt is in no way yours. You are a brilliant mum and the fact that you have taken on caring roles is a testament to your caring nature. Now think of yourself.

As pps have said, she is what she is, she won't change now.

You owe her absolutely nothing.

If you don't want to talk, answer the phone or see her then don't. You deserve a life.
Your mum should feel incredibly guilty.
You don't need to.

DBT can help with anxiety, I know from experience.

I wish you well OP x

Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 10:45

I really appreciate every single comment and engagement with me here.
This has been much heavier than I expected and nobody has been anything but supportive and insightful.

I feel for the first time in my whole life ready to cope with the sadness and guilt of being NC because seeing even the small snippets of my life written down, that I'd never want anyone, even someone hideous to have lived my experiences.

If my posts have upset or triggered you in anyway, please accept deepest apologies as I didn't think it would get this heavy.

I saw my father for the first time in many years a few months before his death, completely unplanned, he tried to strangle me but I'm now an adult, quite a strong one too, so he had no way to successfully hurt me.
He died months later, on Christmas day.
It was also the most triggering time of the year for me and the first year without him being alive Christmas day is the time my mother decided to fall out with me. I wondered if it was a trauma response, but she actually called me names and made out I was using his death for sympathy. I had to explain just because I didn't love him, it was still a massive transition for me, going from fearing he'd in some way haunt my day to him being dead and it being his anniversary and Christmas day.
I can understand why she felt I was attention seeking, I understandably hated him but also felt many unresolved feelings towards his death, including him getting to taint every future Xmas day in his final hurrah. For those interested he drank himself to death, fell and hit his head and died. It wasn't an awful death, but he died alone. My DH didn't know many of the things I've shared in this thread until after his death, not because I didn't want to tell him, I didn't want him to become consumed with some blokey idealation he needed to do something vengeful, he's a good kind pacist, my father didn't deserve to get that reaction from him. My DH is too good to sink to that level.

I know this is anonymous and there's a beauty in that because I can, openly say my feelings and read back opinions from people who have no skin in the game, but each person, who has listened to my story, who wishes me well, please never underestimate what you have done for a stranger. I feel stronger today than I did yesterday because of you.

OP posts:
TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 14:01

Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 08:53

If God forbid anything happened to any of my children I'd unleash a level of horror that I'd doubt until that moment I was capable of. But I know, I would.

You sound brilliant ❤

You have natural, normal fiercely protective instincts towards your children like anyone normal does ...... Contrast that with your mother and her behaviour.

If anything should bring it home re. just how unnatural, terrible and twisted a "mother" she is; that's it.

She's a travesty of a mother.

And now, hearing get background and upbringing, that can't even be blamed that!!! She had decent parents who had am apparently respectful relationship.

There is something wrong with her, she has a significant personality disorder or some type mental illness. I don't think it would be exaggerating much to call.her evil, no matter what the underlying reasons.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 14:02

*And now, hearing her background and upbringing, that can't even be blamed!!

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 14:09

I also think theres only so far "naivety" can excuse some of her behaviour, it's it's not far.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 14:34

Even when I found mother and I the house we moved into when I was a teenager, both my parents asked me could my father come with us for a fresh start

A fresh start lol.

He was going to miraculously become a non alcohol, non child molesting, non violent, non abuser .... Just like that.

Your mother was happy to risk you getting another violent attack ... Either in your original home where the first one took place (and she discouraged you from leaving) or in your new home where you'd tried to escape to.

I'm very surprised she didn't go back to the original home and move back in with him. I'm wondering what motivated her to stay with you. Was it looking bad by abandoning her 14/15 yr old girl?

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 14:52

She told me that's not the case, they even got a restraining order in place, but DM chose to return back until they just accepted they couldn't do anything.
They would have helped her financially to get her a place of her own, however, that isn't what she wanted.

Lots of women being battered, abused etc have no support and few options. They either go to a refuge or don't. Your Mum actually had family support and help. But she chose to stay for years and subject herself both of you to violence. I also dont know how she completely missed the sexual abuse.

You sometimes think people must be like their parents or their upbringing must dictate their character but in my household, for example, my Mum is simple, hard working, pretty honest, has a very caring streak etc and my Dad was v hard working, responsible, a good Dad in many ways, fairly straight etc. Neither would have really intentionally hurt people's feelings.

My sister wouldn't work a day unless forced by circumstances. She's spent every bit of her h's money, she's spent any compensation claims she could get, she can't work the system to get pip/dla at this time, she's dishonest, she picks arguments and gets gratification from hurting people's feelings or from putting them on the defensive etc. Where has it come from?

I know good people & parents who have kids who are gambling addicts who've spent every penny of their partners savings when they got access to their account I know good people & parents whose son has been prosecuted for images of child sex abuse.

It's just the way it is; and that seems to be the way it is with your mother. She had no reason or excuse to be how she is, but she is. Something wiring is wrong with her, but unlike wiring, it can't be fixed.

She's caused enough suffering, stress, abuse, injustice etc in your life ...... You shouldn't let her cause more.

Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 15:05

@TheoTheopolis23

I think some of it would have been fear of looking bad, if I'm honest. The way we left was quite messy and involved help from her colleagues and boss, after my dad did the attack on me, (the one on the stairs) once I'd recovered I told her friend what had happened. She immediately offered to take us both in, we went for dinner and I felt so much relief, to then be guilted into returning home because my mum said he may hurt our dogs if we don't go back. No kid on earth is going to let that happen. So I dutifully returned home, but that friend confided in her boss that I was now being attacked and he literally gave her money for a deposit and told her anything my father destroyed, furniture etc, he'd replace.
It was obvious my mother was regularly beaten from the black eyes and broken noses to neck braces.
I think the shame of her colleagues knowing that I was now being abused physically got to her, because she said to me if I said he could come to the new house, (which I found from a local agency) I wouldn't be able to tell her friends he'd moved in.
I at that point just felt so defeated, like I'd managed to get us to shore and she's fighting every step of the way to get into the heart of the sea, if that makes sense? It just felt so for nothing.
She also paid my dad money to get his own accommodation through credit cards and I remember wondering why the hell that was happening, if she had access to CCs etc, why was her lovely boss giving us a deposit?
The whole thing looking back over 20 years later is more strange than rocking horse shit.

When I've discussed this kind of thing with her she changes the narrative. But on any of the things I've disclosed to you people on this thread, I've never ever once changed my story on or deviated on.

I have more things flooding to the surface and I'm just sat with my beautiful DC in shock at some things placed on my little self.

OP posts:
Dukeydo · 31/07/2023 16:59

I’ve ready your updates.

It is exhausting for you and it has no end and no solution- a therapist could take years to unpick or diagnose her and as for treatment - I doubt she can be,
ultimately it doesn’t matter why she is like this, it is trauma, abuse, mental health, a personality disorder or anything. You have been through some of the most seriously depraved and abusive acts that anyone can - you must cut her off and that part of your life.

you can not fix her. You are not her therapist. She must do that.

you must concentrate on your therapy and that of your children and your marriage.

you must see that you are a survivor and you can not solve this, she must, she’s an adult.

scoopoftheday · 31/07/2023 17:14

@Oversharingnamechanged I'm so sorry you've had this upbringing.

Look at you now, smart, coherent and with your own wee family 💐 He can't touch you anymore.

My upbringing was similar, his abuse spanned decades, all his daughters were targets and his sons got beaten.

It took me until I was 40 to cut all ties. And once I did that, all my siblings followed.

My story is long and possibly outing if someone I knew was reading, but my mother got dementia and is in a care home - she doesn't remember staying and letting him climb into our beds (I know in those days it wasn't easy to walk away when you have more children than fingers, but our house wasn't big, I refuse to believe she didn't hear him "mistakenly" open our bedroom door when we were getting dressed or walk in on us getting ready for the bath)

She did finally leave him, but that was when we'd all left home so she wasn't protecting us, she'd just found out he'd had an affair and that of all things was the straw that broke the camel's back...

Her dementia means I still have contact, visit her and talk to her, but I can't forgive her for not leaving him.

I've seen him since at funerals and blanked him totally. He tells people that he doesn't know why his children don't speak to him, he tells lies on us constantly. I can't wait for the dirty old bastard to drop dead.

Chin up, keep strong, cutting contact with him was the best thing I have ever done and I promise you, it will be hard at the start but you will be so much stronger as the time passes.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 17:26

I've thought about why your Mum might've stayed with you Dad, and why she thought well of your father's CSAbuser friend, and why she kept on contact with your ex.

I think that narcissists cannot conceive of someone (opposite sex anyway if they're heterosexual) not loving them/esteeming them etc.

Even though your father was violent to her, to the point of inflicting serious injuries; I think she probably still thought he loved her, and that his behaviour was attributable to that old school "volatile, passionate, can't live with each other can't live without each other" (utterly toxic) view of romance and relationships. Hence she stayed, kept trying to get back with him, and was helping him out like they were a team (even after you left).

Likewise, in spite of his jokey comments about her injuries etc, she told you she thought well of that abuser friend, thought he was helping her/them out, that she should have been in a relationship with him, had him as a father to her child etc. She probably thought that he was hanging around their home for her .. because he fancied her and wanted to be helpful to her. It wouldn't have occured to her for one second he was a CSAbuser grooming/manipulating/exploiting them - partly because, to be fair, most people don't jump to the conclusion a man who had no known history of CSA is a CSAbuser (unfortunately) but also because she thought his presence was about her.

Likewise, she stayed "friends" with your ex - even though he was abuisive to you, and even though you wanted nothing more to do with him; because, I think, she was flattered he apparently wanted to have contact with her, and he was paying her attention etc.

This is a long winded way of saying that I could see a way that her being a narcissist, for example, would facilitate that interpretation of those interactions ("they love me, they like me, they're interested in me"), and leave her completely blind to the realities.

Her narrative was more important than your welfare or safety etc because she's fundamentally extremely selfish, another narcissistic trait alongside the ego.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 17:45

(I know I initially thought she might have known and turned a blind eye to your abuse by that "friend" and by your Dad, but thinking about it more, I suppose it's possible she didn't really suspect because she is so self absorbed, egotistic, narcissistic etc that it just wouldn't have occured to her that men were focused on anyone but her.

She was so foolish she couldn't even see that the CSAbuser friend was engineering rows between them and then using it as an excuse to "help" them/her out by putting their child to bed and be such a good guy while they were having a row (not that it was a row).

I bet she thought his callous, humourous comments about her broken face were some kind of sympathy.

Oversharingnamechanged · 31/07/2023 17:50

@Dukeydo thank you, I FEEL exhausted. I feel aged from it all. I am tired of this. So so tired.

@scoopoftheday I'm sorry you had such a horrible time. Your father sounds a monster. The bullshit they tell, "don't know why they don't speak to me", you just know that people think that's utter crap and of course they know why.

@TheoTheopolis23 the time you've taken to help me figure this out is something I wish I could repay you for. It's a gift, giving someone time and I you really have.

I also think that you're spot on in everything you've said. I've taken those online quizzes, (not exactly a science, I know) but my mother does exhibit narcissistic traits and scores highly.
She would tell me without fights in a relationship it shows lack of care/passion and it took years for me to untangle that. Her views are extremely toxic and she really doesn't like women.
Maybe having a partner, no matter how awful and dangerous, gave her a belief that she was better than the single mums on our estate. She is judgey.
I also think that she kept into touch with my ex because she enjoyed the attention to an extent, because I really don't know why a woman over 30 years older than him had absolutely any real reason to keep in touch with the man who'd casually smack your DD around.

I think you've hit the nail on the head and it was all about her ego and wanting to feel these men cared about her, no matter how violent they were or just bloody awful.

OP posts:
scoopoftheday · 31/07/2023 17:53

@TheoTheopolis23 I wish there was a like button.

Your posts are so insightful.

TheoTheopolis23 · 31/07/2023 17:57

As a side note, I think him naming his d the same name as you was just more propaganda along the "I'm such a close family friend to them, I'm so fond of their daughter, I even named my daughter after her/the same".

He had to stick at that line diligently, in case ppl might suspect his real motivations.