DH says I've turned him into a chauvinist.

[HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been together 2 years, married for 1 and we have an 8 month old DD.

When we met, he was a laid-back, tolerant liberal man. Very much a live and let live sort of person...especially when it came to gender roles and women.

However, since we married and had DD, he has really started to alter his perception on relationships, marriage, men/women and just about everything.

We have a traditional set-up. I am a SAHM, he goes out to work. He works full time and has his own business, so he works really really long hours. As a result, I do all the housework, cooking and the majority of child-care.

Recently, he has begun to make comments in regards to a 'woman's place being in the home', he doesn't like the 'feminisation of the work-place' and says that when he was younger he was led to believe that there was no such thing as a happy housewife so he gave up thinking he would ever meet one. Until I came along apparently...

I am a v. laid back sort of person. I don't mind picking up dirty socks and towels off the floor, I couldn't give a fig what he wears, how he does his hair and I don't give a crap about clothes/jewelry/shopping etc. I hate confrontation, so if something trivial is bothering me, I just let it slide. Because of our personalities, DH is very much the dominant one in our relationship.

This is just who I am naturally, it is not planned nor is it a conscious choice.

However, it seems that my laid-back, do all the housework and generally let him get on with his business/go out to pub/fix up his cars, attitude is bringing about a really unpleasant side in him.

He now spouts forth that all women should stay home full time to raise their children and that no man really wants to do housework and change nappies...and any man that does so is just pandering to 'his woman' because he has been mis-led by the feminist movement and the media into thinking that he has to act 'like a pussy' in order to keep a woman...

I've tried pointing out how wrong this attitude is...I've argued with him. All to no avail. He just smiles at me and says 'Well, I'm just glad you're not a career-woman type. I go out to work, you stay home...this is how it should be'. He even said our marital set-up has made him a chauvinist.

What should I do? We are fundamentally very happy with our marriage, he treats me really well, is always there for me if I need him and is a completely devoted father. But I'm v. worried about the impact this new 'thinking' could have on our DD as she gets older...

Have I made a rod for my own back here? Should I stop behaving like this? What can I do?

Advice really needed here...thanks if you got this far!

Sorry, i don't see this situation in such extreme terms. I agree that in some ways it's a compliment that he is so happy with the way your life is that he thinks everyone should do it. All you can do is respond by contradicting him every time he says that all men want this, or all women want that. He is potentially constricting the choices of his future children, male or female, who might want to be full-time carers, exactly equal domestic contributors, or to make more of their contribution financially. He is, as an earlier poster said, not sounding like an intelligent human being if he thinks the same situation suits everyone, or that he can take everything his workmates say to him at face value. And, yes, I suppose I would make absolutely sure, were I in your situation, that i were working hard to keep up my work skills (networking? the occasional conference?) for the future when your children won't be at home and you might or might not want to change things. I would also ensure my financial security, buy some AVCs for my pension etc. I would advise any human being to do the same, life is not predictable.

I don't think he's evil, but he needs to be told that it is unpleasant talking to you like this as if, instead of making adult choices, you have simply exercised an instinct like an animal. Very little humans do is instinctive.

Well, your description of your own personality style - easygoing; don't stress over "girl" things; etc - is more or less a description of me. I also married a laid-back, undemanding kind of guy. Like you, I took on quite a surprising number of home-making duties: I'd alsways done that for myself, so I carried right on doing it. My H also said I'd "encouraged" him to behave like an over-entitled male circa 1850.

It has taken me a long, long time to realise that he was emotionally abusive to a spectacular degree. He took advantage of my helpful, leave-it-or-do-it nature and twisted it until I didn't know who the hell I was or what I was doing. Now, I'm not saying your H is the same: for your sake, I hope he isn't!

But I'd encourage you to consider all the responses you've had here. Most of the wisest women have queried why you're both uncomfortable with your position and defensive of it. Try not to waste this advice. Are you, now, where you wanted to be as a woman, wife & mother? If not, what's changed?

dittany...obviously it's really upsetting to read that someone considers your husband to be a danger to his child. I don't know what to say to that...

What I meant about the responsibility issue was that because I am happy to do all housework/child-care etc I am perpetuating certain ideas about women's 'natural' suitability for these roles.

I certainly don't tolerate any misogynistic comments...that's why I posted in the first place. I don't like it and I have told him so. And I will keep telling him until I get my message across.

maktaitai thank you for that little bit of reassurance. My plan is to just keep on arguing and contradicting these sexist remarks every time they happen.

Words can't cut ice.

I hope you don't feel like the posters have agreed with your H that you are "turning him into a chauvinist". In fact I amongst others have said the direct opposite. I know it must be hard to hear some nasty things being said about your DH, because it sounds like he has some nice qualities. Unfortunately his view on the character and abilities, and even rights of men and women are very objectionable, and nothing else he does/says can "make up for" this. Because the damage that this will do to you and your DD will still be done.

elephants...I know lots of posters have made it clear that I am not to blame. But the fact is that it was and is my choice to be at home, to do all the housework and to let him make the big decisions and generally get on with what he wants to do.

I facilitated this, I enabled it. I put his interests first and often choose to make small sacrifices in order to make his day go a bit easier (i.e getting up early to make him a lunch after a bad night with DD when I would much rather sleep in).

As I said, I have chosen to do all this, I initiated these roles between us and I did it because I love him and I want him to be happy. And he is happy. And he as a result, he endeavours to make my life happy aswell, sometimes by making big sacrifices (i.e moving hundreds of miles away so I can be near my family).

But the negative impact of all this is that it has coloured how he views women who do not adhere to the traditional marriage model.

This I didn't like...I sought advice about it here, I wanted to know if this was something that other people experienced.

Obviously it is not normal and I consider that for it to really change, I am going to have to do some changing first.

The comments in reply to my OP have been a huge eye-opener. That anyone would consider my DH a danger to my DD makes me very concerned indeed.

I think some may have overblown the situation that they believe he is a danger to his own child.

Your husband you say did not have views like this before i find it hard to believe that someone could 'pretend' for how ever long you knew each other then after 2 years of marriage without showing something of his true nature. Obviously something changed his way of thinking and i think it is because of the situation you 2 are in.

You say that other than what your husband says women should do you have a happy marriage. I think that he sees his successful marriage and thinks this is the 'right' way everyones should be like your marriage thats what i think he is thinking. I don't think he hates women and i certainly don't he is a danger to anyone but i do think he is ignorant beyond belief to think that something that works for both of you would work for everyone.

You have to say to him you do not like him pigeon holing a gender it's not only disrespectful to women in general but that you find it disrespectful to yourself and your daughter even if he does not mention either of you.

sammyuni he does know an awful lot of men in unhappy marriages, or men that have been through painful divorces. One man was falsely accused by his ex-W of downloading child pornography at work...he had to undergo a police investigation and immediate suspension from work before it was found that there was no such material on his computer and she had in fact filed a false report.

I think DH has seen an unusual amount of cases where women have treated their husbands badly or unfairly. This I think may play a part in all this.

dittany it scares me that you feel so strongly about this that you wouldn't trust him with his own DD. Again...I'm not sure how to reply to that, except to say that it's quite upsetting.

"I think DH has seen an unusual amount of cases where women have treated their husbands badly or unfairly. This I think may play a part in all this."

I think this is a complete red herring. I know a lot of women who have been treated appallingly by their DH/DPs but I don't hold the view that "all men are bastards".

Well there you have it your happy marriage and the many men his knows unhappy marriage is why he has sexist views.

It's unfortunate that your husband has been exposed to enough negative marriages that they changed his views. Not all peoples views would change in the same situation but someone peoples would and it seems your husband is one of them.

You say that your husband said he wants the best for your daughter well you tell him that making comments that women must do this is NOT the best for your daughter. And that just because he knows men in unhappy marriages does not mean everyones marriage not like your own is the same.

*Why he has developed sexist views

Sorry you said he was not like this before

Sorry - haven't read the whole thread

can someone tell me -

have we established whether what he's doing is turning into his father yet?

Hello OP.

I am a SAHM and to be honest I think from what I have read my husband and I have a fairly similar relationship.

He spends hours and hours at his work and I do everything at home. He would also expect me to do the list of things every day that your husband does.

I too do not have a problem with that at all.

My friends think we are a bit mad I think, their husbands all do more to help than mine, but as far as I see it, my job is to look after the children and the house, his is to bring the money in.

What is so wrong with that in this day and age, I just don't get it!

My husband would also think that all women should stay at home, but he doesn't use the type of language and make the sort of comments that yours has done. I would find the sort of comments that your husband has made hard to deal with.

I really don't know what to advise you, but just wanted to let you know that there are other women out there who do everything and feel happy with that!

My heart goes out to you, just try and go with what you feel and don't let everyone's outrage on here make you do something you might regret. I would wait for a couple of weeks after this thread has calmed down before you decide how to go on from here.
xxx

kitpuss

thank you. That made me

Do you mind me asking how you decided on that arrangement? Was it his idea, or yours?

Hope that's not too personal...

Kitpuss, do you give your DH a list of things he must get done at work every day?

I wanted to let you know that I felt exactly the same as you until very recently, when I discovered that my dh had been repeatedly unfaithful to me for many years.

I spent 20 years doing all the housework (we met when we were 18 - I even washed his clothes when we were students).

I thought this was fine - it was a 'deal' - he worked the long hours to bring in the money and I managed everything else (and I mean everything). I happily packed his suitcase for buisness trips and holidays; cooked a meal every single night of our lives; he did not know how to use the washing machine. I jumped up to greet him when his key turned in the lock.

But at the time, I didn't resent this for a single second. I was happy being the one to create a lovely home - a sort of base of love and calm to reenergise people to go out into the world. Like you, I would not fight with him unless absolutely necessary and i was always, always the one to say sorry and beg to make friends. And I am ashamed to say that i scoffed at feminism and people having 'me-time'. I thought we had a 1950s marriage which really worked.

Whilst I know I am not to blame for his actions, i do think that my 'submission' might have contributed to him losing sight of me as a person in my own right, and to have eased the path to him treating me with such disrespect.

I am not saying by any means that your husband is likely to do the same to you and in fact, if my husband had not done what he did, I expect that I still would not have a problem with the 'traditional' way we divided up our lives.

But post-betrayal, and seeking to stay in the marriage but redefine it on more 'equal' grounds, I find that living that way for so long has made it very difficult to reestablish myself as a person and to rescue my self esteem because i was so enmeshed in him and the family and home.

So, I would not want my daughter to get into a 'traditional' relationship like mine, and I would advise everyone to make sure that they preserve 'themselves' in their relationships; to take heed of feminism and to make sure that being helpful and wanting to make people happy, doesn't segue neatly into being taken for granted and being taken advantage of.

Sorry - this sounds like some sort of Victorian 'cautionary tale'!

The thing is that you are accepting this notion that men and women have "roles" in a relationship.

When DH and I met, we earned the same amount.

When DS1 was born I stopped earning for a year

Then I freelanced two days a week from home for three years, during which time DS2 was born

Then DH took a pay cut to do something new and I went back to work part time to earn the same as him

Now I work full time and earn twice what DH does - I am the breadwinner and we both work full time, and share child care/housework/decision-making 50-50

It's about taking turns to support each other. Makes us v happy anyway

It was both of ours really. I always wanted to stay at home when we had children so the actual stay at home bit was an easy decision.

As to the actual division of labour, I am just doing everything that my Mum used to do. I guess we must have sat down and talked about who was going to do what (it seems a long time ago now, our eldest is 4) but I can't actually remember the conversation.

It just seems entirely reasonable to me for me to do all the shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. So it was probably my suggestion to be honest. I'm not saying that I am great at doing all these jobs, and sometimes I wish he did help more, but I am completely happy to accept overall responsibility for the household chores.

Do ask me any more questions, I really feel for you and for the response your post has had. I would be feeling quite battered if I were you!!
Just remember that some of the responders will think quite differently to you about lots of things in life and try not to take everything to heart - people seem to quite quickly get into a frenzy about things on Mumsnet.

I do hope that now you two ladies have "found" each other, you won't simply disregard the and reactions you have had to the way your DH thinks about women in general, OP

and fgs, please read MrsJ's post...in fact, I order you to read it several times

put it on your list of tasks

and think about yourself in that position in 20 years time

MrsJellice...thanks for your comment, I'm sorry to read about your H's unfaithfulness...

kitpuss I am feeling slightly bruised from the reaction! I know DH says unacceptable things sometimes and I want that to stop, for myself and DD but I really don't think he is an abusive or dangerous man. He doesn't hate women or think that they should be forced into being housewife-drones, but he does think alot of marriages would be happier if more women did choose to stay at home and be housewives.

It sounds so bad in black and white but he isn't a monster...really he isn't.

I'm rather chuffed to read that you have the same arrangement. Was starting to feel like a bit of a freak. Thanks for letting me ask some questions...I'd love to know if there is any religious reason why you have ended up in a traditional marriage. Have you noticed a change in your DH since you have been at home full time?

AF I haven't disregarded anything anyone has posted. But feel free to sneer away... "found each other".

So thats how it is then...I should conform or get lost.

Misogynistic language and unfair gender stereotyping are unacceptable to me. But it seems you have no problem 'grouping' women you don't like.