DH says I've turned him into a chauvinist.

[HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been together 2 years, married for 1 and we have an 8 month old DD.

When we met, he was a laid-back, tolerant liberal man. Very much a live and let live sort of person...especially when it came to gender roles and women.

However, since we married and had DD, he has really started to alter his perception on relationships, marriage, men/women and just about everything.

We have a traditional set-up. I am a SAHM, he goes out to work. He works full time and has his own business, so he works really really long hours. As a result, I do all the housework, cooking and the majority of child-care.

Recently, he has begun to make comments in regards to a 'woman's place being in the home', he doesn't like the 'feminisation of the work-place' and says that when he was younger he was led to believe that there was no such thing as a happy housewife so he gave up thinking he would ever meet one. Until I came along apparently...

I am a v. laid back sort of person. I don't mind picking up dirty socks and towels off the floor, I couldn't give a fig what he wears, how he does his hair and I don't give a crap about clothes/jewelry/shopping etc. I hate confrontation, so if something trivial is bothering me, I just let it slide. Because of our personalities, DH is very much the dominant one in our relationship.

This is just who I am naturally, it is not planned nor is it a conscious choice.

However, it seems that my laid-back, do all the housework and generally let him get on with his business/go out to pub/fix up his cars, attitude is bringing about a really unpleasant side in him.

He now spouts forth that all women should stay home full time to raise their children and that no man really wants to do housework and change nappies...and any man that does so is just pandering to 'his woman' because he has been mis-led by the feminist movement and the media into thinking that he has to act 'like a pussy' in order to keep a woman...

I've tried pointing out how wrong this attitude is...I've argued with him. All to no avail. He just smiles at me and says 'Well, I'm just glad you're not a career-woman type. I go out to work, you stay home...this is how it should be'. He even said our marital set-up has made him a chauvinist.

What should I do? We are fundamentally very happy with our marriage, he treats me really well, is always there for me if I need him and is a completely devoted father. But I'm v. worried about the impact this new 'thinking' could have on our DD as she gets older...

Have I made a rod for my own back here? Should I stop behaving like this? What can I do?

Advice really needed here...thanks if you got this far!

justabout i totally agree. I have told him in no uncertain terms that it's not on, but he either dismisses what he says as a joke or tells me that I don't really know how things are.

Neither are satisfactory replies, which is why I posted asking if I should alter my behaviour...

I've come late to this thread but HDIMHU - when I first started reading the thread I thought your DH was probably making thoughtlessly silly remarks without realising how much they upset you.

However, as I read your responses I began to feel genuinely chilled and horrified at the picture you're painting.

The thing that it most worrying is the frequently recurring theme about not wanting to go against him because you don't want to rock the boat or upset him - even that you think to express your real feelings might "ruin your happy life".

WHY? WHY WHY WHY? What do you think will happen? How can someone claim to love you if you have to hide your true feelings for fear of "rocking the boat"? How can your marriage really be happy if that involves laughing along with comments you find repellent and upsetting?

I don't always agree with what my DH says. Sometimes he says things that I find unfunny or twattish. But I would never, never fear expressing myself to him. There is nothing I can't tell him, nothing I can't say to him. Whether that's "I love you" or "you're being a dick".

I don't care if your DH likes having his dinner cooked. I don't care if he loves you being a SAHM. I don't even care if he makes twattish comments about his female co-workers. None of that really matters.

What matters is that you are afraid to tell this man what you really think and feel. And that is terrifying.

I think it's worth saying that to have a man working outside a home and a woman working inside the home is much less of a 'traditional' marriage than some might like to think - married women have been regularly working outside the home in the UK and across Europe for hundreds of years. The jobs that were available to them may have been restricted, but I'd hazard a guess that probably at any given time in the 19th century, say, the majority of women held down jobs.

I think I might have to change my name after this thread!

Well we are Christians but to be honest I'm not sure how much that has to do with it. Most of our Christian friends do not have the same set up as we do. I think it is more to do with my personality and possibly the family life that was modelled to me as I was growing up.

I do realise that my choice is contrary to that of most people, but it is my choice and I am happy with it. I believe it is right for me and my family.

To answer your second question, my DH hasn't really changed since I've been at home full time.

It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the main problem with your husband is that he loves your set up, and thinks it is so great that it is what everyone else should be doing.
And it is just not socially acceptable these days to say that what you are doing is right (thereby condemning everyone else to be wrong). I'm not saying that this is good or bad, it's just the way things are, as evidenced by the reaction here.

I'm off to bed now to avoid the backlash, will check in tomorrow!!

Ok, there have been a few posts where ppl have said I am afraid of rocking the boat so I hide my true feelings.

theyoungvisitor I don't hide how I feel. I tell DH openly and honestly what I think and feel. I don't wish to rock the boat by changing my behaviour if it is not necessary.

I am not afraid of my husband or of expressing my opinions and feelings to him.

Oh...and I do not 'laugh along' with his comments. I tell him that I disagree and that he shouldn't talk as he does.

hmm it's all starting to feel a bit...Mail on Sunday to me.

His views are appalling. Not just slightly off-beam, but really unpleasant.

Do you think maybe you are a little too laid back? Perhaps you need to stand up to him, not just in words, but in actions. Stop doing so much around the house, for example. Claim back a bit of time for yourself, e.g. social life.

You don't want to wake up in 10 or 15 years time and realise you are a drudge, serving the needs of a horrible, chauvinistic old man.

But what do you mean by altering your behaviour?

I am only responding to posts like this one where you wrote:

"My worry is that by altering my behaviour and confronting him, forcing an argument and making him face his sexism, I will be ruining what is actually a very happy life for us."

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post - but you say here that you are worried to "confront him" and to "force an argument".

I think there are other ways that you can address this than by retraining to be a solicitor if that's what you mean.

Aside from making it abundantly clear that when he makes broadbrush generalisations about "women" you consider that personally insulting to you and your DD, you could start by taking control of the family finances for a start. Tell him that as you are at home it makes more sense for you to handle the money.

thanks kitpuss. I thought you might be Christian

I'm inclined to think you're right...DH does seem to think we've got it right and that other people would benefit from doing the same.

He gets really wound up when he hears about friends/colleagues who are going through a messy divorce or seperation.

One particular colleague DH was friends with got into a fight with his wife, he picked up a lamp and threw it across the room. She says it hit her and she called the police. He was arrested. He maintained it didn't hit her. A messy court battle ensued and they subsequently divorced. He lost access to his children, he had to rent a dingy bed-sit and pay out a large sum of money to his ex-W who quickly found another man and re-married.

As I said, he seems to know an awful lot of men who have had messy divorces or marital problems. as a result, he seems to think alot of women are only out for what they can get and that men are not allowed to stand up for themselves anymore...

I don't agree obviously.

Also you've posted completely contradictory things.

You say in one post that you aren't afraid to tell him when he's being unreasonable. Yet you say in another post that you are afraid to confront him.

You say in one post that he doesn't make you feel like a servant, yet you say in another post that he has a list of things he expects you to do which is exactly the attitude of an employer towards a servant.

I am a SAHM for most of the week (I do work 2 days) and I have a list of things I do because they need doing - it would never even cross my mind to consider what DH's priorities were! It's MY decision what gets done. If he doesn't like it, he can do it himself!

Of course I work hard to cook and clean and I'm grateful that he earns a good wage and that I can spend more of my children's early years at home.

But I don't think about our relationship in remotely the same way as you describe yours.

So a guy you know physically assaulted his wife, she left him, the guy now has a shit life....and your DH sides with him? He sounds like a woman-hater to me, sorry.

theyoungvisiter

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that since I already do pull him up on his language and challenge it to no avail, for me to get a proper reaction I would have to take things to another level and get really confrontational about it...raised voices etc. Or I would have to refuse to do certain jobs around the house to drive the point home...these things would of course bring about tension and unhappiness between us. As it stands, he treats me and DD impeccably well...I don't want to make our home life unhappy. Not because I'm afraid of him, but because I'm hoping there is a way to get through to him without causing a big upset.

Bafana The assault case was dropped and no charges pressed. He maintains he did not assault her.

theyoungvisiter when did I say I was "afraid to confront him"?

OP, you are changing the emphasis of your words because of the reactions you have got

you now sound like you are defending the indefensible and regretting how candid you have been

he has actually done quite a number on you

I'm really sorry, OP, but I don't get it. You acknowledge there is a problem, but you don't want to have to actually do anything about it.You don't want to have to change your behaviour at all, make any sort of meaninful stand, cause anyone any discomfort, rock the boat in the slightest. What advice do you actually want?

I am sorry if I sound harsh. I just don't really see why you have posted?

I'm sure that you can make your point without shouting or going to extremes.

Just tell him the truth - that his comments are revealing a really unpleasant side of his nature to you, and you are worried that in time his attitude towards women will sour your feelings towards him completely.

Tell him that if he wants to retain your love and respect, he needs to speak about women more respectfully. And that if he continues to make misogynistic comments, you'll be forced to conclude that it's because he doesn't actually value your love and respect.

All of that's true, isn't it?

Agree, AF.

HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand - it looks increasingly as though you can't make him understand. Because he understands already.

But I'm not defending what he says. How am I defending the indefensible?

I don't regret how candid I have been, not at all. I wanted some honest reactions and I have got them. Some I expected, but others were really out there.

I have said so many times that he is not abusive, or aggressive, I don't feel frightened or intimidated by him. But there seems to be a determination to somehow prove that he is a violent, dangerous man who is going to cheat on me in 20 years time.

So when you say AF that he has done a number on me, I really don't know what you mean.

He says really quite awful, misogynistic things to you.

He has extremely dodgy ideas about women and their 'place'.

What would happen if you decided you wanted to go back to work? Would he still be this lovely, supportive, caring husband?

I think you are in denail.

Abusive doesnt have to mean shouting and hitting. It can mean subtly, over a long time, destroying someone's ability to act like a grown up.

denial

aint just a river in Egypt, as they say

"theyoungvisiter when did I say I was "afraid to confront him"?"

In your post of 12:24:13. You said that you were worried... to confront him.

I know you've said that what you meant was that you were worried about changing your behaviour - but I'm afraid to me that just sounds like semantics. It comes down to the same thing - you think he will be unhappy if you take a stand.

Oh really this is getting ridiculous. You've asked for our opinions, you've been given them, you've found a new friend (how lovely) but in general people have said that they would be uncomfortable with his attitude.

You just keep defending it and defending it, so what's the beef, chief? Don't like it? Do something about it, you've been told, by a large consensus that his opinions are shit and aggressive.

And now, now you chuck in a little bit of DV for good measure. How revolting.

There is no magic wand to wave away misogeny. But you don't want to hear that really. You want us to say "ah well, if he's lovy most of the time that's ok, even if he thinks we're all harpies, bitches and liars"

Never. Going. To. Happen.