Dh doesn't fancy me anymore and I am so angry with him it's making me grouchy and shouty - vicious cycle thing going on. Help.

[gleegeekgleek]

Dh doesn't find me that attractive anymore. We haven't had sex for about two years .

I am really angry with him for not fancying me. I am 36, in decent nick (have hair done, exercise although could lose a few pounds but not many, make up, etc so please no suggestions on that front as I already do that) The problem is I am not super skinny, toned and tanned. I am probably reasonably pretty and not overweight (a 10-12).

He has said this about the tanned and toned thing in a roundabout way and that 36 year olds can't compete with younger women and he admits his standards and expectations might have been messed up by media imagery. He thinks this is just the way of the world.

I am feeling really bitter about all this and disappointed, angry sometimes and resentful. It is making me grouchy with him and sometimes with ds.

I do like him generally. The above makes him sound misogynistic which he isn't - and he does loads with ds and his fair share at home.

He just doesn't seem to fancy me anymore. No OW I think. He has a low sex drive and always has had and it seems the hurdle for him is higher than I, a mere normal woman rather than model don't meet it anymore.

Help!

Could you tell us about his background, upbringing, number of past girlfriends etc. Do you know any of his ex-girlfriends? Does he get on well with his parents, does he still see/speak to them much? What about his own friends, what are they like? Are they equally concerned with such toned looking women?

I sympathize with you. I feel that he is, as others have also said, trying to control you by withholding sex. It's very unfair of him to make you feel unloved. Buy a good vibrator and stick up a photo of an extremely sexy looking man inside your wardrobe door if this continues! By the way, does he comment on how good looking/toned women on tv are, to you? Don't accept that without letting him know how it feels.

I hope you're able to get him to explain more of his feelings to you about it, otherwise going to Relate or something like it may be the only way to go. What would he say if you showed him these pages? He may begin to understand more from your point of view.

These are the things you should ask him:
What does he want out of your relationship? What is he getting out of it, if sex is not what he wants?

ANd if sex is not what he wants, how would he feel about you getting your sexual needs met elsewhere?

If he doesn't come up with a satisfactory, respectful answer to the first question, then he ought to be told to leave (ie if he says, well I don't know why I'm with you/.I don't get anything out of this relationship).

If his answer to the second is that he would hate you/leave you/assault you then you definitely need to get rid, this man thinks you are property, not a person and there is no reason for you to put up with this attitude.

We (me & dh) were talking about Ronan Keating at the weekend (he wanted to know why he had an affair with a woman who looks so much like his wife) and I was saying how grateful I was that he never felt the need to go elsewhere (we have been through some really rotten times recently). He said why would he, when he still fancied me so much, probably more now then ever. And I am several dress sizes bigger than the day we met/married!

Dh & I celebrate 16yrs of marriage on Friday, 21 years together all in.

We were not 'totally rampant' at the beginning & we are having the best sex we have ever had, more frequently...so you dh is talking BS!

Yes marieiguana, and not only did he say the thing about the tanned and the toned etc. but he said that 'newness' is key for him in a sexual relationship! so even physical perfection would bore him after a while.

I tihk you can get treatment - maybe hormones? It would help his self-esteem too. Don't throw it all away just because of this, maybe you could call NHS direct in the first instance to see if there is anything avilable.
It's NOT YOU its HIM

Solid - to be fair he would never ever assault me or anyone for that matter - he is exceptionally chilled out and doesn't get angry.

We had a chat. Did turn into the usual intellectual analysis thing. I said I wanted to feel loved and attractive to him and he wanted me to define how that manifests itself.
I said surely a clever chap like him should know what makes a woman feel loved and attractive but he (probably rightly) reckons everyone is different so I need to tell him.

He backtracked a bit about the attractiveness to him comments and said the 25 year old versus mid thirties comparison wasn't about me and was about women in general i.e. most men would normally think 25 year old women are more attractive than 36 year olds but he wasn't comparing me to a 25 year old .

So he said that he thinks there is a foundation for us to rebuild the sex thing and that there is an attraction there.

He thinks some of his needs weren't being met and recognises mine weren't/ aren't either.

He has suggested we write down what we want and share it with each other, being as specific as poss. I'm still struggling with the idea of having to define exactly what would make me feel loved without it becoming prescriptive (hug me three times a day etc. )

At least he wants to improve things. We agreed we'd try and sort it out ourselves initially through further chats but if needed he will agree to see Relate.

gleek well done for bringing it up, it does sound as if he's prepared to try and you might get somewhere. Don't stop talking about how you feel. The writing down thing could be really helpful. In yours you could explain that you'd like physical affection and nice comments etc. but it would mean more if they really came from him instead of feeling like he was following a script.

I would also explain to him that whether or not he meant to make you feel inadequate, there are some things a loving partner does not say to their OH as they get older - it's your job as husband and wife to cherish each other and make each other feel loved and fancied.

I know fine well for example that when a certain type of fit, dark-haired young lovely walks past my DP will probably be thinking "phwoarr!" I do it too, privately. In fact everyone does - look at threads on here about who we fancy off the telly. But you don't bring it up in conversation and compare your OH to them. Loving someone and being in a LT relationship with kids is a completely different thing and much more precious.

That sounds promising... Keep us all updated

He doesn't dare phwoar at other women in front of me so is okay on that front other than the comments he has made in these conversations about why he doesn't seem to want sex.

I think it probably has come across as a bit worse than it actually is - he definitely doesn't go round eyeing up women in front of me all the time etc. That's not to say some of the other issues are not hurtful to me even if they're not intended that way.

I am a bit perplexed that he seems to detach sex from making love but maybe that is a bloke thing. And also still hacked off that I need to define things so much about how to make me feel loved but maybe it's a women are from venus men are from mars or whatever it's called, type of issue.

Oh this does sound promising. It even sounds as though his comment about 23-year-olds was careless rather than deliberately hurtful and he regrets it - and his idea of writing down the things you want is a really good one. Best of luck.

He definitely wasn't being deliberately hurtful at any time - not his style. More that he doesn't understand that his super rational view of the world can still hurt my feelings.

oh OP this has made me so angry.

i bet there is nothing wrong with you, what an arsehole, making you feel like this. and fgs 36 is not old and past it, how dare he lay the blame at your door for HIS issues.

please dont stand for this. just get rid of the twat, there will be plenty of men who will fancy you and will love you for what you are.x

Sorry glee, I still think you are bargaining.

It is not a men thing to detach sex from making love. It does however tend to be a porn addict's thing.

It is not that he's from mars either, or any of the other sexist nonsense peddled by that particular book. Other men really aren't like this, you know.

This is useful to know. I will talk to him again tonight.

I think his idea of love is different to mine.

He actually really isn't into porn at all by the way. Well not unless he has a secret habit but I find that very, very unlikely.

Hang on a minute: detaching sex from love isn't necessarily a bad thing (it;s actually very sensible to understand that sex and love are not indivisible).
ANd don't take any notice of the Mars/Venus stuff, it's complete bullshit and totally unhelpful. Your partner is different from you because he is another person, neither men nor women are one homogenous group and TBH what other people do or feel is irrelevant.
The important things to deal with when you talk to him are that both your needs and feelings matter, both of you matter but you are both entitled to be treated with common courtesty and not belittled or insulted by the other.

It may be that a possible answer is to ditch monogamy and agree to have other sexual partners. It is perfectly possible to do this and have a happy relationship - but don't start doing it without thorough discussion and lots of thought and maybe a look on a few swingers/polyamory forums to see what other people think. Monogamy is neither compulsory nor the 'best' option for everyone.

SGB I agree that sex and love can be detached by both sexes, but I hate it when this is described as being a thought process that is peculiar to men. The problem here then is perhaps what you say; the OP doesn't want to (and cannot) detach sex from love and wants a monogamous relationship. But she is in a monogamous relationship with someone who has detached from her. What I want the OP to consider is that this has got nothing to do with his gender, but it is more about him as a person.

No he has pretty much always been this way and I was a bit blind to it until the last couple of years.

It's actually the opposite - I am more confident now than when I was younger and we first met. I was quite needy and grateful for him just being with me, so wouldn't have criticised him and in fact barely noticed. Love is blind and all that.

Your last post is illuminating OP - it what I was alluding to downthread. I suspect he likes younger women with less self confidence, precisely because they are sometimes needy and "grateful", whereas a woman who knew her own mind and body wouldn't be attracted to a man like this at all.

I think it is no coincidence that just as you have started to grow up a bit and form your own views, he has started to punish you for that.

Yes although he isn't intentionally punishing me as he isn't doing this on purpose and hasn't really changed much.

Hi glee. I think it's interesting that you have just said that you have developed over the years to become more confident, but that he 'hasn't really changed much'.

Several posters have talked about how sex gets better and better the longer they've been together.

That's surely partly as a result of change and development within the relationship, and within each person's idea of what part sex plays in a relationship.

As for his not intentionally punishing you, I think in this context that ignorance is no excuse.

If he is a rational thinker - a logical thinker, then he must know that feelings and emotions have to be taken into account when you're in a relationship. Ignoring the fact that words can hurt is the very opposite of rational thinking.

Most people learn at a very early age that making remarks about someone's appearance is hurtful. Does he do that to other people? Why should he treat you with less respect than he treats other people?

I don't think he sounds very rational, tbh.

You're finding yourself and becoming more confident. That is attractive to any sane person. It's attractive in a woman and in a person and in a friend. It's attractive to everybody but him.

I know it's totally, totally different, but I think I was needy and had the bar set low when I got together with my x. He eroded my self-esteem (in totally different ways) but there is only so much you can take.

SGB - have you done the swing thing? did it work?
I think for a couple to do the swing thing/polyrelationship they would have to very secure in their relationship , i dont think it would last otherwise .
If you have a partner who has made the other feel insecure or lacking in confidence ,sexualy or otherwise ,surely swinging would increase the insecurity ?
If its a couple/triple/whatever who are solid then if they can handle it -whatever floats your boat.

Magaly - he is now with new p - funnily enough she is quite well upholstered but is obsessed with heathly eating!!

Quite a few parallels /alarm bells with op though

1. rationalising/intellectualising emotions etc

2. Power imbalance in all relationships also each one gets younger

3)things ok while no dcs and esp whilst living in his house -things started to go downhill once moved to joint property

very interesting thread