Still suspicious of possible affair, months on....

[loves2walk]

I have posted my situation here before a few months ago under 'How do I tell if my DH is having, or about to have an affair' and I'm just back now for more advice.

Nothing has changed - briefly my DH admitted an attraction to someone he works with and socialises with, a single woman with 'boundary problems'. He then spent a couple of months being odd, secretive about his phone, cranky with me and DSs, emotionally detached from me and not intimate, aggressive a couple of times and very very stressed. Said it was all work and there was some truth in this, and we were also moving house. However he would be really cross if I questionned him going along to an out-of-work event that she was involved in - like drinks after work or football, he just would not allow me to express upset about those things and dismissed me as being 'ridiculous'. So I stopped mentioning it and quietly gritted my teeth, as I wanted the bad atmosphere to go away, not to make it worse.

So after loads of fabulous advice on here I tried snooping and did not get far at all. No idea of email password, blackberry blocked, no evidence on visa cards. Nothing. A RL friend suggested looking him in the eye and asking him to be honest and tell everything - she does not get him at all. He would not admit an affair as he has too much to lose. He loves me, loves DC, has been through 1 marriage breakup already and does not want to go through another. So I believe he stopped the affair to protect his marriage and family. BTW we were great before this started - happy, regular sex, every friday night out as couple, even a few nights away on own, so not a marriage in trouble at all, I didn't think.

BUT I am now struggling to get over this and let him back in. I can't be the same with him. I don't laugh genuinely at jokes, I can't connect emotionally with him and I don't want him to touch me. If I tell him why, he will deny everything so I feel there is no point opening up to him.

So I have carried on snooping and was really hopeful that I could get into his blackberry to read txts and emails. Then I did. I found his password in an old filofax of mine and I had an opportunity with him out and his phone left behind to go through it. My heart was pounding. I saw loads of boring work emails, quite a few friendly warm txts but nothing incriminating. The friendly txts were very cosy and intimate even but nothing that would show any inappropriate behaviour and if I mentioned them to him, would make me look paranoid and blow my cover and make him hide even more from me. Atleast he is relaxed enough to leave his phone lying around. But both txts and emails stopped showing beyond a few weeks - there was no way to scroll down further. I know he clears out his in-trays so I am now realising this is not the answer I hoped it would be. I can't think of other ways to find out for sure and am wondering how other people have found out about affairs. Short of getting him (or her!) blind drunk, then asking for confession I just feel stuck

I remember you, I am sorry you are still feeling so shitty

You won't like what I say.

If someone made me feel like this, over a long period of time, refused to explain why, and showed no interest in helping me feel more secure, I would end the relationship

It wouldn't matter that I couldn't find "proof"

You know how you feel. He sees no need to change his behaviour to help you.

He makes you feel bad, about him, about your relationship, about yourself.

That would not work for me.

Sorry.

I don't like it much I suppose, but I do want to understand it. AF - would you even feel that if he was making more and more of an effort as time went on, and if your DC were happy in their little family unit. Not happy all the time, sure, but happy most of the time and certainly well loved.

I think it has to take a huge amount to break up a 'good most of the time' unit

You may never understand it.

You may never find "proof"

L2W, I don't want to negate what you have said, but if he really is "making more and more of an effort", why the new thread ?

I am not criticising, nor saying you shouldn't post.

There is a reason, however, you are asking for advice again.

And that is because he is doing a very poor job as a husband.

L2W...is your happiness and security not a big enough reason for you ?

Perhaps I am a very selfish individual (I suspect I am, actually, MN has taiught me that) but it would be a good enough reason for me.

Certainly enough to utterly and irrevocably force the issue.

My view may possibly be a minority one, however, and you should weigh it against more tolerant and unselfish views (which I am sure you will)

Well I suppose I feel I should be joining him in re-invigorating the relationship and not hanging back like I am. And if I can get to the bottom of what went on, we can address it and deal with our problems and maybe then get back like we used to be.

??

He isn't doing a great job as a husband because I'm left feeling he's had some no-strings-great (probably) sex with someone other than me and now I'm supposed to get back close to him without knowing what went on. And I can't. But I can't tell him that either because I know he'll deny it.

So I'm stuck. But me being stuck isn't good enough reason to disrupt the lives of 2 little guys

I suppose the big question is- if he did have an affair and it's over, are you able to forgive and move on?

You see,looking for evidence is all very well- but what next if you find it?

If all of this is in your head, your behaviour- being withdrawn etc etc- is likely to do more damage than good. If he was having an affair, then trying to mend your marriage is likely to produce the outcome you want.

What I am trying to say is that your negative behaviour and snooping is not going to make you happy, or your marriage strong, is it?

You may well never know- it is not that hard to delete emails , numbers and texts if you really want to. IMO the men(and women) who are found out usually want to be! They leave the evidence available as it makes the "confession" easier.

What's to stop you asking him outright? This seems your other option though you have to ask whether he will ever be truthful, whether a "yes I had an affair" means your marriage is over, or whether you can build it back up feeling as you do and being uncertain.

which is the lesser of these evils?

Have to agree with AF.

I doubt very much that you'll ever get the answers that you want to hear. This will just continue to eat you up, putting all your time and energy into trying to catch him out and I can guarantee that you'll drive yourself crazy in the process as you already are. Is this really anyway to live...

I don't think, dittany, that he's told barefaced lies, he has just been withholding information and I've jumped to conclusions.

Noone else sends him this type of txt. He has few social occasions actually, but they all involve her. And he's been missing things recently, not that interested in going and coming straight home from work even though, for example, she's been in a bar, sent him a txt saying 'i'll get you a pint in if you change your mind' and he said 'what a lovely thought, but I'm at the bus stop now so no, but thanks'

That sort of thing.

He is not a bad husband or father. Just cranky and perhaps unfaithful. Somedays I think I'd leave him if he had been - most days actually - but then others I think we could work through it, as he used to be my real dream guy. But it's the not knowing that is driving me crazy and I am convinced he has nothing to gain by an admission. Even if I tell him how bad I'm feeling about it.

I have only had 1 chance to read his blackberry so maybe a few more times will give me better information...

< shakes head >

I could not get through my days with this hanging over me

Shit or bust

Force the issue. You should never let anyone stonewall you.

How about just biding your time a little longer? If they have had a 'thing' then she'll probably reference it in her emails at some point. At this stage, without further proof or likelihood of hearing it from the horse's mouth, it sounds like he is backing off massively/had 2nd thoughts. Had a male friend who stupidly did exactly that - no affair but an ego-boosting flirtation.

I remember you too, and am sorry this is still ongoing. Even if he's ended things with OW (if there were things going on, and my instincts said there were on your original thread), do you feel secure in your relationship that another OW won't come along in a little while? You don't sound it, your relationship doesn't sound "affair-proof" at all.

It all comes down to whether you can live like this long term or not. What will you do when the dc's leave home?

Have you read the Shirley Glass book, "Not just Friends" btw?? Highly recommend if not.

AF - how do I 'force' the issue? You see, I think I'm trying to do that by getting evidence for what I am pretty sure, happened. But he won't say if I just ask him, so I can't see how I can force the issue myself without evidence.

I think, dittany, he did create opportunities - there were times looking back when he went out after work for drinks, then was not answering his mobile and ended up coming home really late - so several unaccounted for hours - several times that happened. They have absolutely had the opportunity.

We are by no means 'affair-proof' and I suppose I'm worried if I let this go and relax into our relationship that whenever we next have a bad time, he may go off with ms-ever-available OW. That's a crap way to feel and I'm pissed off that she is there undermining me.

I tried getting the shirley glass book but wasn't in stock - must get that back on my to-do list.

His aggression in practice means shouty, cross, angry - verbal aggression is horrid and I've told DH that it is unacceptable and he's trying to respond in different ways to being wound up. I really think he is trying to work on that and don't hold it against him that he has temper control issues. He has never been physically aggressive and I've pushed him on occasion, tested him to see what if. I feel safe, just wondering if I'm being taken for a ride that's all.

If I wanted to excuse to end our marraige, I accept I have enough here to do that. Fine, but I don't. I want a way back to what we had.

You ask me how I would "force" the issue.

I don't think you will like my answer.

I would make him talk to me...not push me away

I would separate from him if I felt he wasn't being truthful...or lying by omission

I would not accept I was "nagging" or "paranoid" or "ruining our relationship by not letting it go"

In other words, I would apply conditions, and follow through on my threats if I wasn't satisfied with the response

You don't need evidence...I cannot reiterate that enough...your feelings are valid

Perhaps the threat of losing his family will restore his decency ? Perhaps he will find the backbone to be honest with you

And if he takes the opportunity to fuck off to a whole new life of shagging young and attractive colleagues, then you have your answer

And if he continues to stonewall you, then accept he doesn't love you enough to try and keep you

L2W please look back at my threads and the advice I received from various MNetters.

I lived with suspicion for 3 years, it drove me insane.

I snooped and found nothing, or what I thought was evidence he always had a good reason for.

I knew he was up to something, asked him so many times, looked him in the eye and he denied it.

His phone was always locked.

I eventually found a txt by chance and confronted him.

He admitted all and now lives with OW.

You cannot live with these feelings, it is soul destroying.

Despite the pain and hurt that me and DC's are going through, the relief of knowing the truth and that I was not going mad was tremendous.

You need peace of mind, you need to talk to him about your feelings. It will hang over you until you have your answers, good or bad.

Thanks all

AF - I don't like your answer you're right! But I do appreciate it and the time you all have taken to post. I am thinking about your comments. I worry that my feelings alone can be dismissed, that I need the evidence as back up. but you're right I need to address this full on.

And thank you dittany and partytime. I am hitting a block with one thing - this idea that I can't get back what I have lost - I feel like a 2 yr old having a temper tantrum - though a quiet and restrained one - I just don't want to accept I've been betrayed and my relationship that I put so much time and investment in, might possibly end. I really love this guy, he's made me so happy in the past and we had a closeness I've never had with people before.

But I don't want ongoing suspicion and your situation partytime is so sad, what you went through. I don't think I could be strong enough to go through that and try and maintain a stable home for 2 DC. It's all a bit scary. I am posting now as DH is away till next week so I get a chance to do some thinking, assisted-thinking

hey op - sorry you are having a hard time. if it was me i'd be looking for proof too, however futile that might be.

i think the desire for evidence is about needing a concrete reason to explain dh's change in behaviour. i would be desperate for proof of an affair to explain the behaviour because otherwise theres another reason for dh being so mean and thats even harder to stomach - hope that made sense x

I think you need to consider all possible scenarios while he is away. You cannot second guess him, you need to be mentally prepared, for whatever happens.

I say this because when the affair was finally revealed I couldn't believe he would chose OW over me, DC's, our home, lifestyle, everything we had built.

I was in total shock for many months, physically ill, lost a lot of weight and suffered panic attacks.

I had never considered that he would leave, I thought we were too strong for that.

Being unable to understand or accept his choices has been/is a huge hindrance to my recovery.

Maybe if I had thought about him leaving while I was suspecting the affair I might have been better prepared.

Equally I hadn't ever considered throwing him out. I'm sure lots of others on here would have thought of that as the only course of action.

Hi loves2walk, I too read your previous thread and am so sorry to hear you're going through this. I don't have anything to add to AFs advice, which I think is spot on (as usual), but if it helps, you can get a second-hand copy of the Shirley Glass book here: www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1254197570&searchurl=an%3Dglass%26bt.x%3D0%26bt.y%3D0%26 sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dnot%2Bjust%2Bfriends

L2W

just one more uncomfortable thing I want to point out to you, then I will stop

you say DH is away

what a coincidence your head has cleared enough to post again, after months of this heavy, heavy weight dragging you down

what does that suggest to you ?

AF - I knew I would think about this problem, and therefore possibly post, once DH had gone. Him being away gives me space - what else? Don't think that is such a bad sign for a relationship or am I missing something? Yes, the house is calmer, we go at our own pace, I feel like I only have 2 people to manage not 3 - but is that so different to 'normal'? Think several of my friends would agree.

I read your post partytime and think I feel like you did then - I don't believe he would chose her over me, her single, quiet but surely bit boring life over our busy, fun, noisy family life. Why would he? A friend said to me - sure, he wouldn't be interested in her - why would he bother going out for a burger when he can have steak at home? Thought that was sweet but maybe I'm deluded