Over the Shoulder Boulder Holster

[ItsGraceAgain]

How are you?

I think you are bullied enough, Over. I'm not going to tell you off. What some others have said here, about 'normalising' abuse, is very true. Even now - seven years after my divorce - I'm still recovering memories from my marriage. Not that I'd forgotten what happened, but had forgotten to feel affronted/outraged/sad about his behaviours. You get so into the habit of excusing, rationalising, ignoring, switching off ... that it becomes normal.

My mum did that, too. Because she did it, I absorbed her manner of "coping" - which was not coping at all; it was an abysmal form of self-denial. I denied my own suffering, and I did that because it's what my mother taught me.

Your story and mine are very different, Over, but they are the same genre of story. I'm almost free now, but I know exactly what it is to feel resigned & numb. It's disempowering. You have power, lady, and I trust you to use it!

Take your time but keep moving. And keep on reading about domestic abuse, NPD and covert child abuse. Call the helplines as often as you can; you don't need to make any commitments. Information is power.

This sense of inertia you're feeling - it's not you it's a consequence of the Emotional Abuse directed at you.

It's not just the mean words, the insults, the threats that hurt.

The sum total of those things screws up your mind - tis well known. That's what makes you unable to act. But you kind of know that already. You are getting there.

You are not just scared, sad and overwhelmed, you are also (from your posts) strong, articulate and assertive - and soon you will take charge of your life again.

Until you do, we are here.

Understand, we are frustrated for you, not by you. It is your life, you don't owe the strangers on the net anything. They're all jumping up and down because they know how it goes, many have been there, the rabbit in the headlights, totally thrown by the nice-nasty cycle, trapped by love and terror and weariness. They know how hard it is to leave. They are pleading, praying to whatever they believe in, that you find the strength to save yourself and your children from this unnecessary suffering. You can do it... let it be soon, before he does anything even worse. You're so likeable, it's horrible standing by and knowing you're going through this and being able to do nothing for you but type, type, type - helpless - useless. That's what the frustration is for. Not your fault, you're not a wicked person who brought this on yourself, you're a fellow human being and a nice one to boot. This should not be happening.

We know how the game works, you see. It is horribly effective, that's why it's so common. It's working on you. It's worked on women, and sometimes men too, even more intelligent and strong-minded than you (few though they are!) You're not an idiot. You've had a number done on you. We want you to see it, break out of it; we want you to be safe.

Over,

I think he will kill you eventually.

He is destroying both you and the children here; he only cares for his own self. You and the children are but mere posessions to him, he treats you like he owns you to do with as he pleases including rape you.

If you somehow think that you are protecting yoru children fully from the horrors that go on within your home you are sadly mistaken. They are learning from you both and you are both teaching them damaging lessons. Your parents taught you damaging lessons which you are now enacting in adulthood.

Why by the way are you too scared to go to the Police?.

One generation has already been affected by a dysfunctional childhood; this process is already happening within your household to the next generation i.e your children.

What are you BOTH teaching them about relationships here?.

I fear that your DD will end up with a man just like her Dad if you do not act. Your way of working has not worked and will never work - you need to act and fast.

brilliant words annie.

You are in denial and this inertia borne out of that amongst others issues is costing you very dearly.

It will take you and your children years to recover from the legacy of his abuse and that process of recovery is delayed the longer you stay with him. I would urge you to get away from him asap also before you are in the morgue and I do not say that at all lightly.

Attila??

I am frustrated for you over, not BY you. There is a difference. You were conditioned over the years and by various people to accept all this as somehow "normal".

Your children are also being hurt here by his actions towards you; this man does not know the meaning of the word love and never has. Probably never will. You are but mere possessions to him and he treats you all as such.

Grace...I don't think that Attila is overstating the case here

A man that will use a woman's body like some sort of sexual blow-up doll and attack his very small daughter is capable of anything

Hello Over, I've come out of lurking to say I think I can understand why you'd be reluctant to contact services given your husbands occupation. I imagine you may feel that the services will just trap or betray you rather than help you find freedom. I can also hear how alone, paralysed and hopeless you feel right now and probably how familiar that is to you.

I've some experience of some of the things you're going through and can only echo those who have said that your situation is made harder as you've a lifetime of conditioning to believe that this is normal life. But a husband raping, abusing and terrorising his wife is not normal and has nothing to do with love and everything to do with making you the vessel for his hatred, anger and pain. It's not about you Over, he'd do it to any woman. Listen to your sil's view of him. She seems to know him well.

I read how de sensitised you've become to being raped and I really understand that. You sort of survive by numbing yourself to everything. It ceases to become the worst thing he can do to you as there's so much more that he does.

Over, having read a lot of what you've written and one thing I do know, is you're a survivor. Look how you have survived since birth in these hostile conditions and not allowed your abilty to love, your humanity,empathy and compassion to be destroyed.

I hope one day you'll be able to show yourself the love,compassion and empathy you so deserve and I wonder if posting here has been the beginning of that and one day (perhaps soon) you'll feel able to leave. I think you'll make changes when it's right and possible for you to do so - I know I did.

I saw you attempt it when you spoke with him about some of the things he was doing that were making you feel unhappy. It was an incredibly brave thing to do and I saw how you felt - by his response at that time - how things suddenly felt possible. I imagine you feel hopeless now as he's trying to push you back into place and exert control so you don't try it again.

I really don't underestimate how hard and painful this is for you, none of us do and now you really know from him, that he doesn't have any intention of changing and wants to punish you for challenging him.

I hope you can stay safe and play the game at home until you can get out and I hope you post again, Over - if or when you feel it helps you that is. There are a number of people supporting you here if you need or want it.

It's only 8 weeks since Over discovered she's being seriously abused. Her original post was about her husband's demands over her housekeeping duties. In the course of that thread, she courageously faced the revelation that she's being subjected to systematic, long-term abuse.

She did what would be the reasonable thing, if he were a reasonable man - stated her concerns and negotiated some more flexibility. That was 11 days ago. Now the honeymoon has worn off and he's started punishing her for her temerity. That makes this the first time Over has knowingly witnessed the cycle of abuse in her life.

I think it's asking a bit much to suppose that, at this stage when the woman is probably still in shock, that she's suddenly going to go "oh yes, I see it all now, I'll just drive away with no money and no plans".

I apologise for speaking for you, Over - that's not my intention. There have been other threads here, where people bully a vulnerable, abused woman - evidently with good intentions, but a fairly self-deeating effort I should have thought.

Wonderful post, iso.

What bullying is there here Grace?

I respect people's motives - and this is a forum, the point being that everyone may express their views in their own way.

Some of my responses to some of the above posts would be along the lines that:
telling another person what she feels and/or what state of mind she is in;
threatening her with violence and even murder;
telling her she's a useless mother
and insulting her:
are manipulative behaviours amounting to abuse.

Here are some quotes from this page (5) alone:
You are in denial
I think he will kill you
If you somehow think that you are protecting your children ... you are sadly mistaken.
... use a woman's body like some sort of sexual blow-up doll

That's just a few.

Just getting to the point where you accept what is happening is so horrendously difficult, that big moves are just not going to happen quickly, and that in order to BOOST the self esteem of women in over's position, gentleness must be used.

I think we all know...including over how potentially dangerous this situation is, but when it's all you've ever known, and you are in shock, it's a insurmountable leap of faith....for now.

The unknown is a dark and terrifying place, and the familiar, however disgusting, is at least that....familiar.

over, I hope you are still with us on here, You have come such a long way in such a short time. You ARE a survivor already, that's true. And you are stronger than you realise just now.

thisis x2

Hi Grace

I do respect your opinion but who actually wrote this:-

"Just in denial I suppose - quietly analysing everything my dh says and does - trying to convince myself that it (the exemplary behaviour from dh) will not last and that I am going to have to be more pro-active"

Over herself posted the above on the first page of this thread.

I wrote that she is in denial and said as much on the previous thread. She did not disagree. How can that be in any way construed as bullying at all given the above?. I am only stating fact, nothing has really changed as she is still there. How can her children not pick up on the underlying tension between these two adults?.

I realise it is bloody hard to leave and that first step is always the hardest. My concern is that it will never be taken.

Two women per week in this country (yes I realise she is overseas but domestic violence is no respector of class, creed or race) are killed at the hands of their partner and or ex. This lady's husband is a truly dangerous individual who thinks nothing of raping her or treating her like a mere possession. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that this lady could come to very serious harm at his hands, she has already been sexually assaulted.

I agree she is very afraid of him and I do fear for her given her H's actions. Her very real fear, shame and embarrassment (her perceived shame and embarrassment are completely misplaced though) are potentially stopping her from escaping him and bringing this man to book in a legal sense.

Grace, I think OTSBH needs a reality check. I don't think she's a bad mother, but I certainly think she's in denial about the effect of her H abuse on the children.

I have personal experience of such situations and therefore feel quite qualified to point this out. I've seen the denial in my mother's diaries, I saw her outright put words in my mouth to service her denial and I don't think this is uncommon for women in domestically violent situations. It's generally a sign that they're reluctant to leave still, because "At least the kids are OK". Well, I'm here to testify that they bloody aren't! I wont watch another mother make up fantasies about how it's not affecting the kids without challenging that.

Also, I really don't think it's bullying to point out that abusers as coldy caluculating as OTSBH's are the more dangerous ones. Think of the lines he has crossed already, violence towards the children, routinized rape, total control. Abusers like that don't just let go easily. Abusers like that are really fucking dangerous. I'm mindful that there are children involved in this who are doubtless already emotionally scarred who may well end up having to witness even more brutality (I shudder to think what) in the near future.

So, whilst I have every sympathy for OTSBH and her horrible situation, I'm even more acutely aware that there are children involved who are totally powerless to change their situation and reliant on their mother to protect them. I don't believe she is and I think that pussyfooting about isn't going to help, I think it may well hinder.

We all know how this plays out. What's served by pretending we don't?

Before I posted my situation on MN, I had no idea that my H was being abusive - I thought that we had a fairly normal marriage, not unlike others, with its own ups and downs. I excused the attack on my daughter as a once-off lost of control - that was 3 years ago and in those 3 years, he has not laid a finger on her - strengthening my view that it was a once-off mad episode. However, after I told my story on here and read the responses to it, I realised the true extend of his abuse, on many levels - I read the responses with dread and mounting terror. I felt and still feel that any insults, abuse and anger, directed at me on here, is justified.

I want to be the best mommy in the world to my children and I cannot even begin to express the guilt and disgust I feel towards myself at this very moment - for indirectly exposing them to the tension in hour house. I am fiercely protective of them and have shielded them as best I can from what is happening. You have to see them to believe me when I tell you that they are happy children - I know where you are coming from dizietsma and I hear every word you are saying.

Reading many the responses on here has given me false courage - so much so that I got very angry and became cocky with my H - in retrospect, that was the worst thing I could have done, as I have now opened myself and my little family up to even more obsessive control and abuse from my H. I now realise that I am going to have to play the good dog (as Grace says)for a while, as I am not able to make things better by being more assertive, in fact it has made things worse. So, even though I know that the more direct posters mean well, I am trying not to be whipped up into an emotional state, where I challenge and confront my H - he has already threatened to hit me and I believe him - I am going to have to do this quietly and over time. For what it's worth - I draw the most strength from posters who are encouraging - but I do understand where the more direct posters are coming from - I know that their advice stems from concern for my children's safety and well-being and I appreciate that.

"I felt and still feel that any insults, abuse and anger, directed at me on here, is justified."

You are showing courage, strength and wisdom, Over. Don't hate yourself. You deserve a MUCH better life - and you will have it, with your DCs. Take care; I hope the weekend is fairly painless!

You know that hundreds of good wishes are coming your way, every day, don't you?

Just de-lurking to wish you well OSBH.
Take care. I have read threads where women in your position have been supported through planning and executing a break away.
It can be done and you have the experts here to help you, step by step.

My intention has never been to give you "false courage" to confront your H. I have never ever advocated you confront your H. I have always urged caution, stealth planning and leaving.

You chose to confront your H because you decided that it was only 5 bad days and you wanted to work on making things better because you weren't convinced things were so bad. I have always told you that is not possible and you need to see the situation for what it is- dangerous and critical.

I have a great deal of sympathy for you, OTSBH. I too was abused as a child, and know it can train you to accept abuse as love from your partners. I don't think you're a bad person, but you do need to stop making excuses for why you can't act to free yourself from this man, for your sake as well as your kids.

So please get help, call a helpline. Throughout this thread and the last people have scattered all sorts of resources for you to access to get help and you keep finding excuses not to. You need to face up to what is happening and act.

Grace, I'm sorry, but your advice to "play the good dog" is dangerous. You have given OTSBH license to further ignore a dangerous man and not seek help. We are not the right people to deal with this, other agencies are. She cannot do this alone. It is a very dangerous game to play particularly if she has no support or agencies aware that she is in danger. If OTSBH had spoken to DV helplines or the police and they were aware and monitoring her situation whilst she played at submissive victim when actually planning escape that would be one thing. I fear that what will actually happen is that she will play submissive and he'll feel more secure so be less overtly abusive and then we'll be hearing about how he's not really all that bad again.

When will it all end?

OSBH, I encountered similar resistance with my ex when MN made me start to realize just how horrible he was being. He got very, very nasty when I tried to up my levels of assertiveness and confidence. It made things much worse. I have since left him, after a few false starts. I kept my head down and smiled when he looked the other way, tried to keep my spirits up in the last weeks but did not at any point want to challenge or annoy him, as the balance felt very delicate. I imagine you know what I'm talking about, your H sounds a thousand times worse.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't take action and fast - just that you should keep things covert, and OUTWARDLY behave in a way that is least likely to annoy him. This is similar to the advice given to women who are about to leave or have just left violent men: it is the most dangerous volatile time of all, and as such you should tread carefully. I think Lundy Bancroft mentions this in his excellent book.
But that is no excuse for sitting around. You are in a frankly AWFUL situation and you simply must act swiftly to get you and the children away. Yet I agree with Grace that a more subtle approach can be safer - in the short term. When you have an immediate urgent plan to leave. Long term, it can be a very dangerous tactic indeed.