Over the Shoulder Boulder Holster

[ItsGraceAgain]

How are you?

Over - I wish you luck with everything.

If you are being completely honest about your situation, you would be quite easily identifiable, so PLEASE be careful about what you post. You never know who else is mumsnetting. The internet makes me nervous!

How are you Over?

Thinking of you.

I was wondering, too

menonthenet - I am fine, thank you for asking and for thinking of me.

I have given my situation a lot of thought and I have reached a conclusion. In my marriage, so far 5 days have been absolutely horrific - not bad considering that I have been married for 5110 days (yes, I calculated it). Of course my marriage sounded like one from hell, because I only highlighted the worst parts on here - it is physically impossible to relate my entire married life on here, so I do not blame people from reacting to my OP and subsequent revelations, in the way that they did.

The one thing I did learn is that I have allowed many of the things that were wrong in my marriage - I take full responsibility for that - I am aware that I have allowed it, because of my own dysfunctional upbringing. In my original OP I asked for advice about how to deal with the workload imbalance in my marriage, but I walked away convinced that I had to leave my husband, as he is abusive. I agree up to a point that he is abusive, but I am guilty of allowing him to be. I have read many similar threads, about abusive partners and the consensus seems to be that an abuser cannot change - I have not yet made my mind up about this.

The one thing I do know is that I cannot walk away from a man that I have loved for as long as I can remember. Apart from some serious misconceptions he has about how a marriage should work, he is wonderful. I decided that I will not leave him until I have done everything in my power to change things. I have spoken to my H about many things (since I first wrote here) and he agreed that we can employ a housekeeper twice a week (I only need one twice a week) and a gardener. He supports the fact that I need my own bank account and money and he is giving me R4000 a month more (over and above the housekeeping money) to do with as I please. I spoke to him about helping me with the workload at home and about the care of the children and he now sets the table for supper every night (might not seem like much to some, but considering that he did nothing before, it is a huge change), he packs the dishwasher and helps with the children - reading to them, bathing them and entertaining them. I asked him to please not email or skype me with list of things to do and he has stopped. Before he leaves for work in the mornings, we sit down and discuss what needs to be done and how we are going to do it.

I am not living in cloud cuckoo land - I know that we have got a lot to work on and there is no guarantee that he will not revert back to his old ways, but if he does, at least I will be able to say that I did everything in my power to make things better.

That's very interesting, Over, and thank you so much for the update!

I understand what you're saying about your role in your relationship dynamics, and feel sure that everything you've done as a result of your "awakening" is very positive. Congratulations on the housekeeper, gardener and pocket money! Brilliant. Your kids will also benefit from his involvement with the daily routines

Keep setting your boundaries, and of course we'll be here if things look wobbly. (Routine namechange, btw.)
xx

Well done, OSBH, and the best of luck with it. If he continues to listen to you and meet you half-way on your extremely reasonable demands (and doesn't let his Neanderthal father talk him back into the bad old ways) you could both be in for a happy rest of your lives together. If, on the other hand, he does revert to type, you'll know what your options are now, and hopefully that will give you strength. At least this way, as you say, you will know that you did everything you could. Zero tolerance on the abusive stuff from now on, mind!

good to hear you are ok Over.

Tis good to hear that you have managed to make some improvements in your relationship. And of course, if he is a wonderful man with some bad habits, it may well be possible for him to change.

I must say, though, that some of the things he did went far beyond mere "bad behaviour" and until he fully accepts that he was never and never will be entitled to act like that I fear you might see this again.

It's understandable, when you basically have a good life together that you want to give it every chance of working.

I guess many of the others will come on here and tell you it won't last. Just remember, though, we are all here if you need us. You are well informed now, and well prepared, you know you do not have to accept that treatment again. If it ever looks like going that way again, please act.

Sending strength.

My first reaction was a kneejerk "Oh God, denial!" But if he has listened to you, heard that you're unhappy, and made a genuine commitment to change, well, there may be some hope.

Just one thing - you're very keen on emphasizing your responsibility for his behaviour (you "allowed" it to happen). Stop taking responsibility. It's his decision to act in certain ways. A feature of abusive relationships is the attitude "If you hadn't done X, then I wouldn't have been forced to do Y". Be very wary of this logic. And making it your responsibility can give you an illusion of having more control over the situation than you do.

Good luck. Don't let your guard slip, though.

And the thing about 5 bad days out of 5110 - he only needs to erupt rarely to keep you treading gingerly for the rest of the time.

Can you truly, honestly say that you have no fear whatsoever of this man and what he might do if he was angry enough? You don't have to tell me, but at least think about it for yourself.

I should have known that it wouldn't last (the peaceful stage we've just been through) - we are having a bank holiday in SA at the moment, so H is home (not now, he took ds1 out). He gave me a list again this morning - 2 A4 pages long. This after I decided to stand up for myself this morning, after he did something which I felt was disrespectful towards me - he did not become physical, but he shouted in my face - told me he doesn't care - told me he does everything right - he goes to work to provide for us, comes home and helps - he does his part, he says. I am the one with the problem - I am the one who never gets anything done - I am the one who is spoilt and lazy - not him, he is perfect, he does no wrong, does his part of the deal. Told me I should be grateful that he doesn't fuck around - he can, he says, without me ever knowing about it - I should be grateful for that, he says. He could easily do it - he says that I must not think that I can control him by withholding sex - he can go for 10 years without having sex with me - he is not like my brothers and father he says - he doesn't care he says - he doesn't care...

He is out now, I should start with the list, but I cannot summon the strength to do it - took my son's Ritalin tablets and drank 1/2 a bottle of wine (in the middle of the day). My 3 year old is being very demanding - I don't know where to start - there is so much to do. I feel like telling him, when he gets back, that it is over - that I release him from being with someone as pathetic as me, but I do not have the strength for the repercussions - not today - maybe tomorrow.

Hi Over, I'm so glad that you've come back, although I'm sorry it's for these reasons. I've been thinking about you.

You know it's not getting to get any better than this, don't you? Don't tell him in a fight that you want to get out - start planning it properly. Go back over the threads and look at the organisations/helplines for SA that were listed. I know you're exhausted and beaten-down, but you can still take the first baby step. Get the information. Make a plan.

You have the advantage that your H cares about his public image. Stop despairing, start planning.

Oh, sweetheart.

I didn't reply to your last post, because I didn't know what to say. Your '5 bad days' were so incredibly horrific that any one of them should have been It, The Last Straw, This Relationship Ends NOW. He has beaten your small daughter, he has humiliated you in front of strangers and in front of your children when you were sick, he has hit you...this is not a man who can be talked into reasonable behaviour.

You live in fear of him. On your 'non bad days' he gives you lists of tasks and puts you through humiliating housework exercises to punish you if you don't stick to them - like emptying all the cupboards out and making you refill them. He treats you like dirt, and this is the good days.

you don't have the strength today. Do you have the strength to do something, anything? Ring a helpline, talk to someone, pack a little bag just in case? just one move in the right direction, Over, just to remind yourself that you can do this.

you cannot live like this. You cannot look your daughter in the eye and know that you're allowing the man who threwherâgainst^walls to continue to run your lives. You just can't.

From what I know about these men now, I would say that he has just told you that he is also sleeping with other women. I could be wrong. He went on a bit about it though didn't he? Wonder why?

Don't be so hard on yourself.....take baby steps. re read the thread...maybe speak to a helpline. You will get there you know.

I'm glad that you have come back here too. Always lots of support, anytime, and for as long as it's needed.

Hi Nickname and tortoise - the odd thing is that he seems happy to carry on the way things are - I don't understand why, if he despises me so much, that he is still making plans for us to go overseas together in October - on the list he told me to arrange for the holiday - get our passports ready - arrange for our luggage etc. We have been planning to have our house renovated (quite extensively) - on the list he included all the things I need to sort out in preparation for the renovations - he seems quite happy for all these things to go ahead. As for me, I am petrified of going overseas with him - what if he is abusive to me there - what if he abandons me in some godforsaken spot? At home, I can cope up to a point, because I am in familiar surroundings, but I would feel utterly vulnerable if he went mental on me on our trip - yet, it doesn't seem to bother him - I don't understand why he wants to do things with me, if he despises me so much.

I am feeling completely overwhelmed (again) and helpless - it doesn't help that I am now drunk either - alone at home with my with my little 3 year old

It's not odd at all that he wants to the relationship continue - he has put a lot of effort in getting you exactly where he wants you: very submissive and trying to please him at all costs. There's a whole chapter in the Lundy Bancroft book setting out "what's in it for him?" ie, an abusive man. His goal is not to turn you into the perfect housekeeper with immaculate cupboards - his goal is to keep you off-balance and desperate to please. If you ever did achieve perfection in the tasks he sets you, he still wouldn't be happy. Seriously - he doesn't want the tasks done: he wants the power of setting them!

My ex was always worse on holiday - but you could be gone long before October!

tortoise is right about your DD. Seriously, on Sunday afternoon I was thinking about her and the fact that you getting a housekeeper/gardener in no way makes up for what happened.

I'm sorry to hear this, Over. Though not surprised - it's just that everybody's idea of "trying their best" to save a relationship is different, and you evidently set the bar very high for yourself. I sincerely hope this is ENOUGH for you.

Don't mull over this while you're drunk. Best you play 'good dog' for today. For god's sake stay off the Ritalin! The last thing you need, on top of all this, is an addiction.

Stay safe. Post back. xx

NicknameTaken - "If you ever did achieve perfection in the tasks he sets you, he still wouldn't be happy. Seriously - he doesn't want the tasks done: he wants the power of setting them!"

Thank you for that - it was what I needed to hear - I feel less stressed now (re getting through the list) - I am just going through the motions - doing what is possible, because I now understand (thank you) that getting everything perfect is not what this is all about.

IsGraceAvailable - I am used to playing 'good dog', so I should be OK for today. I suffer from adult ADD, but do not use any medication for it - every once in a while, I take one of my son's Ritalins, when I feel that I need to be 'on top' of things. I never drink - my H got two bottles of wine over Christmas from one of his clients and I had 1/2 of one today - not feeling so good.

You're doing the list - but he promised he wouldn't make lists. His bad behaviour is being rewarded again, while you suffer for merely being a human being with your own point of view.

This really isn't going to work, is it?

Oh dear OTSBH, you got sucked in by his BS again, huh? Glad to hear you've seen it for what it is though.

It's not 5 bad days, it's an entire marriage of control, exploitation and abuse. Then 5 days of absolute horror within that.

He made some (pretty minor) concessions for you, you went into a honeymoon period in the cycle of abuse, and here we are back to tensions building where he tries to bring you back to heel, under his strict control again. Do you see what's happening yet? Do you see that he isn't going to change?

I hear that you love him and don't want to throw that away, but the harsh fact is he doesn't love you, he possesses you.

I would also like to point out that this is a man who has badly beaten your little girl. D'you think that he will never hit her again? How about when she's a defiant teenager? You can't and haven't keep her safe from him, so you need to take her away from him. You are her mother and it's your duty to protect her.

What about your SIL? She knows how bad he is and wants you to leave him too. She fears for you. Is all that wrong?

I know you were abused as a child and probably think this is what love is like as a result, but it's not. Abuse is not love. Control is not love. He does not love you. You and your children deserve so much better.

You need to leave.

yes i used to wonder why he wanted me when i was clealry so inadequate...he wants you to control....

start planning, really planning. tell yourself - you will not go on holiday. it would be a disaster

oh, over I am so sorry to hear this.

As you've started to realise, over the last few months, - you really are going to have to leave.

We all know that it is not as easy as it sounds, but perhaps it will be easier than you THINK!?

Don't be afraid, don't be overwhelmed.

As the others have said, take baby steps. Do something today. While you play good dog.

Call one of the womens aid agencies.

You can do this. You can turn your life around.

Sweetheart, do you realise your ADD is probably caused by living in a permanent state of high alert? When (yes, when) you get out of this and start living for yourself, your poor, worn-out psyche will get a chance to sort itself out. Once you're safe, I bet you anything your symptoms will ease. Maybe DS's too.

I absolutely agree about avoiding the holiday. In an unknown location he will, as you say, have even more of an upper hand. Unless it could afford you an opportunity to run away? So might the house repairs.

Remember your exit plan? Keep working on it

Thinking of you.

After my H came home, from taking my ds1 out yesterday, I asked him a perfectly normal question and he told me that he doesn't have to listen to me or answer my questions, he can do what he wants, he says. Well, that was 'it' for me - I told him that I release him - he is free to go - I'll give him a divorce. He got very angry with me and said no, no one is divorcing anyone - he says that I must not think that I can try to bully him - I must not think that I can make rules for him. He says that he is going to be happy - he is going to have a happy life - he is going to make sure his life is happy - whatever I do, is my problem - he doesn't care. I told him that that is not my idea of a marriage - he said he doesn't care. We argued and then he threatened me - said that if I ever try to force him again to do things according to my rules, that he will just hit me. I told him not to threaten me with physical violence, that I refuse to live like this. He asked me "have I ever hit you before?" I shouted YES - you've kicked me once, shoved me twice and hit me once - he couldn't believe that I had been keeping count - he became all sarcastic and said he is soooo sorry about that - I walked away. About an hour later he approached me for sex - told him no - he had sex with me anyway - I cried while it was happening - he made as if he didn't notice.

He is now acting as if nothing had happened - phoned me a couple of times from work today - asking after the children (it is school holidays here in SA) - came home - had supper - chatted like he hasn't a care on the world. My bag is packed.

then for God's skae, go this time