What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

Sorry I was wrong about him not knowing your inner self, Yalla. (Does he, then, know you're questioning your relationship with him?) But glad you understand about the control - that's the crux of the matter, really.

Will be lovely when he emerges from the duvet? I have no experience of the emrgence, as I always completely ignored mine when he did it. (thisis, we should put it on our unofficial list of bizarre NPD signifiers!)

These men often drink or use drugs to hide from what they are. I believe they call it self medication.

The best thing that yalla can do is, every time you find yourself pondering him, his moods, what to do for him...etc. swap the word him, for me. It can be a revelation to find out just how much of YOUR brain space they take up. You need to be the best that you can be, to be the best mum that you can be...he can play if he wants, but he has to learn the rules first...which he won't do from under a duvet.

Baba - no, he does not have an alcohol problem, but thanks for your take on things.

Dittany - I really value what you've said and I'll check out those links you sent, thanks. However I think you've got the wrong end of the stick about 'cuddling until I fall asleep' thing. He is not clingy or smothering at all. I just gave that as an example that generally - and GENERALLY has to be in big bloody bold letters though now of course - we have what I would call a loving, supportive relationship. I mean it LOOKS normal. Most of it, 95% of the time, FEELS normal. Feels good. I feel good.

But there are times like this, and they are becoming much more regular now, when I feel like utter crap. And I am slowly working out that this is not right, and that it's him, not me. It's been a long, very long road.

The thing I find so frustrating is that I am having to drive all this analysis. I am having to do all the worrying and despairing over our relationship, because he of course thinks everything is fine and dandy.

It's just requires so much Strength. I get exhausted thinking about how to tackle it all.

Grace - lol about duvet-hiding making an official list! He's coming up for the 3 hour mark now, perhaps he's considering an entry for Guinness Book of World Records?

He will be ignored when/if he comes down.

Ah yes grace! yalla are you on any holiday snaps, general family photos'?

Does he call you by your name?

Does he maintain eye contact with you?

Does he introduce you to people in a
respectful way?

Do you feel that your existence is as important as it was before you were together?

Oh and by the way Dittany. We discussed him leaving me on holiday. He would not really concede that at the very least it was rude/un-gentlemanly, and suggested that the way to combat this is future is for me to always ensure I have a mobile phone and cash on me. So that I'm prepared if he chooses to do that again.

By the way, while we're onto lists of behaviours. Does anybody else recognise this? I've noticed it for years but struggled to place it.

Basically, if he's a bit unhappy with something, or somehow wants to make some sort of point, or even if things are going swimmingly well but he just wants to rile me up a little (can't think of any other reason for him to do it), he will walk slowly behind me. I mean, we'll be browsing downtown on holiday, for example, and suddenly he'll slow down. I'll think he's stopped to look at something, and slow down too to walk with him. But eventually his slow walking gets ridiculously slow, and I get frustrated. And say, why are are dawdling?

And then he'll say something like "I'M not rushing, I'm on holiday". Or, "You walk faster if you want to, but I'm going to walk at this pace."

And of course eventually I walk on ahead. But then we're going to get separated, right? So I have to slow down again. But if I slow down a bit, he slows down again, sometimes so much so that he's in slow motion. Ridiculous. Like a toddler.

Eventually I'll have to wonder off, do my own thing completely, and then after 30 mins or so he gets bored and decides to walk next to me again normally.

Anyone else ever witnessed this?

It tends to happen on holiday. Not often, but enough for me to see it happening and think 'oh god, here we go again'.

I am really getting fed up this is toddler man you are married too.

Christ I'm being sideways flamed for having the same experience and surviving it.

Bloody easy to say book your ticket now.

I don't think Yalla should put up with this, I can tell you Yalla that when you "give in" and "manage" it, it is pitiful, depressing and drives you to despair and hatred.

If you are on the point of ending your marriage your future happiness and confidence will be greater if you lay things on the line now and take this stance.

I hate the fact that you are in counselling for his behaviour.

I don't want a fight and I think it's pretty pissy that I have now stood up to this successfully in my marriage and am being called down for it.

The choice is entirely Yalla's of course but I think it is a choice. I think it's an option to give a deadline until however long you can stand, maybe two months, I don't know, and not even dress it up as an ultimatum. Maybe don't even tell him there is a deadline, just that his behaviour must change or you will be gone. You will know soon enough if there is any depth to his commitment.

Having read your last post (sorry my internet is very intermittent and I have to keep restarting it) he sounds much more controlling than my dh.

I'm off. Yalla, maybe you should just up and go. Christ what do I know.

Thanks to the rest of you for making me feel like a piece of crap.

I apologise for offending you, backtotalk, especially as you're working so hard to post!

I'm afraid your description of how your marriage works - including 'zero tolerance' - sounds very much like being on your toes and 'managing' your husband. We'll have to accept that you and I have differing expectations of relationships. I have, in the past, been drawn into such relationships but would run very fast & far from another one like it.

IME, most of expats' worries about leaving to come back here are lifestyle-related. My own brother and his family felt the same way. They had to flee Jakarta in the riots, after which they found they weren't so attached to their stuff after all.

Yalla please leave him before you are even more trapped than you seem to think you are.

ThisishowIfeel - NO, he is in other ways a completely normal husband.

I know this sounds ridiculous compared to the bad stuff I've posted, but when we're in normal mode we are a totally normal happy couple. In fact quite a few friends say they really respect/admire our marriage! It all looks completely normal from the outside. Hell, it even looks and feel normal from the inside too. That's why I've been IN IT for so many years. Much of it is good. It's just recently that I've realised there is bad stuff that happens too, and that perhaps I've minimised/denied a lot of the bad because the good was so good.

Backtotalk - thanks for your feedback. Yes, it's much harder from overseas you're right. I can't just pack a bag and go as I could in the UK. For starters, I'd be leaving pets behind as well as possessions I've gathered over almost a decade. So, if I decide to go, it will have to be like a military operation to get everything out.

I hear what you are saying about the zero tolerance stance, and I'm amazed that you've had the strength to do this to be honest. It must have been very hard for you standing your ground all that time. You have obviously found a way to make a dysfunctional part of your relationship work in a way that at least appears satisfactory to you. And that's the main thing.

I don't think my DH would be this easy to manipulate though. He will see a threat of divorce as all-out war, not as a final booty up the backside to get his behaviour in gear. This much I know.

It shouldn't be this hard to be married.

Having read your last post (sorry my internet is very intermittent and I have to keep restarting it) he sounds much more controlling than my dh.

I'm off. Yalla, maybe you should just up and go. Christ what do I know.

Thanks to the rest of you for making me feel like a piece of crap.

Backtotalk - please don't feel bad. Please don't. It has been so good to hear that others, overseas like me, are struggling with similar issues.

I really value what you have said and nobody should be made to feel bad on account of making a marriage work for them on their terms, as long as they themselves (i.e. you!) are happy and satisfied with the set-up.

No relationship is perfect and - as you say - it's not quite as easy as just 'buy a ticket' home once you are overseas. Especially if, like me, you have no family to go home to, either so it's friends' sofas or the benefits avenue until you get back on your feet.

Dittany - yes you are right I probably am in denial of sorts.

Yalla -- excuse if I've hijacked in any way. Best of luck, stay strong, and know you are in the right.

backtotalk you have clearly found something that works for you which is good. You're very strong and your dh is less controlling.

Yalla please be very aware that if you really think your dh will see divorce as all out war he will use any child to score points/victory he will not care about that childs' emotional welfare and depending on where you are living he as the father may have far more rights than you.......

YallaYalla,

II smiled wryly at the use of the word probably in your post of 19.06.

There's no "probably" about the denial in your case from what I am reading YallaYalla.

You wrote that you were bullied into your last move by him. Expat relationships are under more pressure at the best of times because you are overseas; being stuck overseas with a husband who thinks nothing of belittling his wife at every possible opportunity is even worse. They know it is hard to leave so women in crap like this ends up staying and often for years.

Your friends, like us, do not know the full ins and outs of your marriage. But enough has been posted here by you to suggest that behind closed doors he does act abusively to you.

Is he still under that bloody duvet?.

When has this ever really been good for you?.
No relationship is perfect and this is true but this is not even coming close to being a healthy relationship, one that you are now going to bring a child into as well.

You know what I also find sad Yalla - the fact that you don't and won't know how bad this really is until you're actually out of this marriage. This will take you years to recover from if you do leave him.

The thing I find so frustrating is that I am having to drive all this analysis. I am having to do all the worrying and despairing over our relationship, because he of course thinks everything is fine and dandy.

You dont HAVE to do any analising yalla, you are in denial about your abusive husband and are pondering over the smaller issues ie the way he walks on holiday , the stupid remarks he makes instead of focusing on the bigger picture.

You say he adores you, you stress that hes been loveley for two whole days. Do you know what, he wasnt being loveley at all, he was just being normal . Next time you find yourself pondering whether its in your head or not, think about the situation and imagine its a freind saying or doing these shit things , ask yourself if youd still be freinds with them afterwards.

Things arent going to get back to normal because he was never normal in the first place. I would be on a flight back to the uk while you can still get away from him , it will be a million times harder with a baby in tow.

Hiding under a duvet ffs. I wouldnt be there when he bothered to come down.

No-one benefits from being in an abusive relationship and controlling behaviours are abusive behaviours.

What YallaYalla are you getting out of this relationship now?.