What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

Especially if, like me, you have no family to go home to, either so it's friends' sofas or the benefits avenue until you get back on your feet.

You could be back in the uk within a few days and in your own little place before long. If it would be hard living on freinds sofas for a while now , can you imagine what a difficult choice that would be with a baby ? Would you be able to just take it to the uk or could he stop you ?

YallaYalla,

If your counsellor determined that you are in denial with regards to your relationship what would your response be?. Would someone actually saying that to you face to face make it somehow more "real" to you?.

I do feel sympathy for you and your unborn child - he/she does not need a Dad who hides under the duvet. What if his/her Dad did that in their prescence?.

I know I know. I hear everything you are all saying. I would be saying it to myself if another friend told me this.

And I know it will be a million times harder with a child in tow.

I just feel frozen for some reason, god knows why. Probably the logistics as much as anything else.

Thanks for all these posts. I am exhausted, going to bed now. I will be trying to see my counsellor tomorrow.

Thanks for sitting with me and helping me. I feel so much pain that such a happy time has turned into an utter nightmare. It seems happiness is not something I'm allowed right now.

Hi Dittany,

Yes I take your point but does YallaYalla really want to think about, let alone listen to, the likely meaning about being left behind in a foreign city?. I hope so for her sake, painful though that will be.

Yalla , i note you saying you want your baby to have two parents , yet he wasnt really interested in the first place , he wasnt even willing to say whether he wanted a baby or not.

And now you are pregnant hes telling you to fuck off and goading you claiming your sensitive.What man speaks to his pregnant wife like that then hides under the duvet ? It will only get worse.

You are most likely frozen because of the combination of fear, obligation and good old fashioned (but truly misplaced in your case) guilt. You probably still feel very responsible for him and worry about him even now he does not show you anything near the same consideraion.

Talking of him, where is he now?.

YOU can only make you happy but your H will never allow you to be happy because he is not happy within his own self. He wants you in a gilded cage, a cage of his own making.

Can I just say before I go to bed THANK YOU for all these posts.

They are making me think, really think, about my relationship. And making me ask hard questions of myself.

Yes - what kind of man tells his pregnant wife to fuck off on their wedding anniversary, when they've only found out the happy news two days ago? And then makes HER apologise first because she snapped at him.

He's still under the duvet - 4 hours now.

Hi Dittany,

There's absolutely no need at all to say sorry. Such written conversations can only serve to help YallaYalla and make her think some more.

I hope counselling will prove to be helpful to Yalla, she needs face to face talking.

My friend is in not too a dissimilar relationship to YallaYalla (there's been a lot of sulking on his part along with emotional abuse) and it has destroyed her emotionally (she has admitted as much to me) and caused untold harm to her child. The same patterns that were present in my friend's relationship which over time became more abusive are all present in this one of YallaYalla's. This is why I post often on this type of subject matter.

Can I just chip in again - have been out this evening and I see things have moved on a lot.

Just on the point of him being v romantic when he wants to be. The NPD that I knew was VERY hot on being romantic. And very hot on over the top presents. Even when the relationship was finally severed he was still sending huge overblown bouquets of red roses for a birthday present. Totally inappropriate. And tring to "just drop in" to deliver other unwanted presents. It was as if he could batter the other person into submission with grand gestures, which he obviously had convinced himself were sincere.

God, Yalla, he sounds EXACTLY like my mother. Either get out now (I would - do you really want him to set an example to your child? Do you really want him to be behaving like this in 50 years? He won't change); or book a flight to the UK, get on it and leave behind a note saying hhim he is going to change DRAMATICALLY if he wants you anywhere other than on a flight back to the UK.

The walking slowly, the "have money and a phone" as a solution to his f**kwittery and most of all the silent treatment ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I've lived with these for 34 years, my mother is only getting worse as she gets older, I can't bloody stand her but I'm stuck with her. Just don't tolerate this tripe, ok? You don't want to sound like me.....

the whole world revolves around him and his wants. how will things be when you have a dc around? he's already said he doesn't understand why his friends give their kids so much attention.

but i think you don't have to make all the decisions in one go.

start with the most important one: what do YOU want to do about this baby?

and then take it from there.

it's not a go-to-uk-with-no-money-and-no-job-and-a-baby or stay with abusive [d]h. i'm sure there are lots of possibilities and opportunities that will crop up.

can you also have a trial separation to give yourself some space? maybe also so that he can think things through properly.

Hi,

Well. Another morning filled with tears and desperation. I honestly don't know how this baby has survived all this emotional upheaval - my body is in a constant state of utter stress and I'm either depressed and withdrawn/stressed or so upset I'm lying on the sofa howling.

Last night I eventually went to bed when there was no sign of him by bedtime. He tried to cuddle me in the middle of the night but I just lay there and didn't reciprocate.

This morning he was relatively calm/contrite. I was in tears on the sofa, silently weeping, he came over and sat with me. We talked on and off for the next 3 hours as he packed (he's now left on another work trip).

We went round and round in circles but the pertinent points were:

• He doesn't accept any responsibility for having wound me up yesterday (apparently I am simply 'too sensitive')

• I kept on trying to say that our relationship is in grave trouble, but he refused to acknowledge this. He made a big list of all the things currently stressing us out as a couple (the pregnancy, my job not going too great, us being unhappy with where we currently live, us not knowing where or when our next assignment will be, the fact he is currently doing 2 jobs, uncertainty over how the next few months will pan out baby-wise etc etc).

He says our relationship problems are just one tiny aspect of this. He says I am choosing to home in on 'his faults' rather than look at all the other things that are wrong. I can't really argue with this - lots of things are stressing us out right now - but that is no excuse to treat each other poorly (or, to put it correctly, for him to treat ME poorly)

• He correctly pinpointed that my behaviour has changed over the past month (because I have realised I am fed up with some of his behaviour). He correctly pointed out that it has only been since my pregnancy that I have started calling him out on this behaviour, and therefore said/hinted that my emotions are playing a big part in my current unhappiness. I don't buy this one bit, but I DO find it amazing, almost creepy, that it IS exactly since conception (I think I conceived literally as we had that argument in Asia) that I have begun to investigate and probe his behaviour. Why now? Perhaps my body knew something my mind didn't.

• He kept saying that I had 'changed the rules'. That I had been perfectly happy with his behaviour for the past 7 years and it's only now (that I'm pregnant and by default hormonal) that I am changing the rules and that is unfair. You knew what you were getting into, he said.

• He refused to go to counselling. I pointed out that he had already promised to, he said he didn't promise but he said he'd think about it if I did something (can't remember what it was). I said he'd gone back on his word.

We went round and round in circles. Said he thinks it's a waste of time. Doesn't want to talk to a stranger about our problems. Doesn't think it's necessary. Thinks the fact that the counsellor told me we need counselling and our marriage is in trouble is because she's "touting for business" (even I had to laugh at that).

A few days ago I mentioned a book the counsellor suggested I read. When I kept insisting on counselling he finally said ok, let me see that book. He flicked through it a bit, and then came bouncing into the room all triumphantly and said "I've got it, a compromise!". He said "I'll read the book, and do all the exercises in it etc, as long you forget about the counselling." I said no way obviously, it's not ABOUT the frigging book, the book is not going to fix our marriage. He then kept saying "it's not fair".

• My 10-week scan. I talked about trying to get him to commit to a date for our first counselling session. Realistically this will be just around the time of my 10 week scan (by the time we factor is his work trips and another holiday we are supposed to be having). I told him the date of my scan (which I booked before having even told him about the pregnancy) and it turns out it clashes with a work trip of his. I said well you'll have to try and change the date of your trip then (private doctor, he's fully booked almost constantly).

Because he sensed the 2 things were somehow linked - scan and then counselling - he got all shirty about the scan. Why do I need to come? etc etc. I went a bit ballistic and said You WILL be there. Frankly if he said he didn't want to go, that would have been it for me. But of course, he knows that. So he said yes yes, I'll come to the scan. But he stressed that that didn't mean he was going to counselling.

He then went off on a rather strange tangent and said I was setting up 'tests' for him. "You're testing me about the scan, because of course I can't say no, can I?" he asked me. "You're putting in place all these little tests I've got to pass." Frankly by this stage I'd had enough, but I thought it was rather a strange thing to say.

• Before he left things came to a head about counselling. I said it's a deal-breaker for me if you won't agree to go. We went round in circles a bit. Just as he was due to leave he said, "so are you telling me if I don't go to counselling you are going to leave me?". I said, well not immediately, but if won't go to counselling ultimately I will have to because it shows you don't care about our relationship. He was incredulous. He said well when would you leave. And I sort of pointed to my stomach and said well before this little thing arrives.

Then he said "so you are threatening to take my child away from me". I said no, not threatening anything, and anyway it's not YOUR child it's our child. He repeated again "you are threatening to take my child away". I said he must agree to counselling. He said "well, that's it, I don't DO ultimatums." And with that he left.

An hour later he sent me a text which reads: "Love you totally. Take care over next few days. Wish you were coming with me" (he had asked me to go hang out with him on his work trip, but I refused).

ARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I am due to see my counsellor tomorrow. Can't take much more of this.

No need to reply, I just need to rant. But I'm not being unduly unfair, am I?

No he is a control freak and he will use your child to continue to control you and keep you trapped.

Sorry but all that "we are not getting divorced" the other day really freaked me tbh now it's "you're not taking my child away" and "I don't do ultimatums"

I'm sorry but I think I would start building up a fund and gathering the paperwork you need whilst you decide when and how you leave rather than if.

Can only second what CarGirl has said in its entireity.

Your behaviour has changed towards him in the last month precisely because you've wised up to the fact that he is abusive towards you. He knows this and does not like it one bit; he is trying to reassert his control over you again. His "you knew what you were getting into" comment is nasty as well. All his conversation towards you is bloody nasty actually. He is a child and you're the parent. He blows hot and cold the whole time and now he's sent you a soppy bloody text (he could not even be asked to talk to you on the phone). Small wonder you're in a right old mess, any woman in your situation would be.

I have always stated he would never go to counselling with you. What he has said subsequently has confirmed my thoughts on this matter. He'll never sit in a room with any counsellor because they'll call him on his abuse. Joint counselling for you both is a non starter anyway due to the ongoing emotional abuse you take at his hands.

What do you want from counselling though, what are the aims for you?. Do you want her to tell you its okay to leave him?. Think you need to see your counsellor today actually.

He has so many red flags I've actually lost count.

He's made it quite clear that he is going to control you as long as you stay with him and that he wants the relationship you've always had - with him controlling you, winding you up and punishing you when you challenge that.

Please recognise waht a terrible relationship this is. He has shown his true colours because you have consistently and determinedly challenged him, because you've come out of the fog and seen clearly what this relationship is.

Please leave him, now. You need to be away from him as long as possible to ensure that he can't use your baby to control you. Which is what he will do if you enable him to. The longer you stay with him, the harder it will be to get away from him. He's more abusive now than he ever was, because he senses that he might be losing control of you. Don't bring a baby into this terrible set-up - he or she will be much better off with a lone parent, don't believe the propaganda that says 2 parents, one of them abusive, is better than you on your own.

Thanks cargirl and dittany. I thought that ultimatums were good? It seems you think I've done the wrong thing.

What do I want from him? OK, well let me try to answer that.

I would like:

• Not to have to receive the silent treatment from him.

• Not to be confused as to why he's angry or sulking or withdrawn. For him to TELL me what I did to apparently annoy/upset him so I can fix it, like in a normal relationship

• For him to listen openly and honestly and without taking the piss out of me when I talk about my concerns with regards to our relationship

• Not to blame everything on my hormones or other external factors (i.e. to accept some - just some - of the responsibility)

• To apologise, nicely and openly and properly, if he has done something bad to me. Like tell me to fuck off on our wedding anniversary. Or throw a bowl in my direction. Not for me to have to plead for or demand an apology, because then it's not heartfelt. He should WANT to apologise to me if he's screwed up, surely.

• To feel that my needs/wishes/dreams are just as important as him, when it comes to considering where we might live/work in future. At the moment I feel like I'm just along for the ride.

er....sure there must be more

Yalla, I recognise every word of what you've just described. I feel for you so much!

I don't think couples counselling will work. When he agrees to it (he will, as it's your condition for remaining under his control) - he'll manipulate it in his favour; anything you agree in the sessions will become another lever for him.

Take another look at this page. Here are some quotes:

In fact, what they are looking for is absolution in advance for behavior they will later inflict on you. They may even go so far as to say, "I told you this is how I am."

And speaking of narcissism, the emotional abuser will be envious and resentful if YOU get more attention than HE does in a social setting. He will likely punish you for it by one of any number of techniques: ignoring you, sulking, disappearing for hours, or leaving the party or function without notifying you. [*or in a foreign city ...]

While someone may be emotionally blindsided by major episodes of emotional cruelty, and may even recognize it as abuse, abused partners often "overlook" the subtle everyday criticisms, "chain yanking", and emotional blackmail that are woven into the fabric of their relationship, accepting (or denying) it as just part of a "relationship". Unfortunately, it's part of a very UNHEALTHY relationship.

Other deflection techniques he may use when his behavior is exposed, are:
-to bring up stories of childhood/parental abuse (watch these, they are the same old stories each time, and if you listen closely, you may see that his behaviors closely match those childhood abuse patterns...)
-to bring up troubles and things bothering him at work
-to bring up his hurt and "pain" over something YOU did ages ago, and have long-since paid for.

If you DO manage to get an abuser to a relationship counsellor, (something many abusers will insist you two don't need - he'll insist that you "can work things out yourselves..."), the abuser will work to ensure that the counsellor sees HIM as the mistreated partner, or at the very least, that his behaviors are one-time incidents rooted in just cause.

Keep working this through, Yalla. I know how tiring it is ... and I know what happens if you decide it's easier to go with the flow

Yalla - what is it you want anyone to say?

Your husband is a dick. He is a bully. He is not liking you being more confident. He will use your child to hurt you. Why are you not getting the fuck out of there while he is away on business? Does he read your posts on here?

Attila - not quite sure what I am expecting to achieve from counselling. Maybe I'm pushing him because I don't think he'll go, and if he doesn't go then that will be enough for me to say, 'enough'. My fear is he agrees, and then we have months of farting around while nothing much really changes.

Hi Yalla,

re your comment:-

What do I want from him? OK, well let me try to answer that.

I would like:

• Not to have to receive the silent treatment from him.

• Not to be confused as to why he's angry or sulking or withdrawn. For him to TELL me what I did to apparently annoy/upset him so I can fix it, like in a normal relationship

• For him to listen openly and honestly and without taking the piss out of me when I talk about my concerns with regards to our relationship

• Not to blame everything on my hormones or other external factors (i.e. to accept some - just some - of the responsibility)

• To apologise, nicely and openly and properly, if he has done something bad to me. Like tell me to fuck off on our wedding anniversary. Or throw a bowl in my direction. Not for me to have to plead for or demand an apology, because then it's not heartfelt. He should WANT to apologise to me if he's screwed up, surely.

• To feel that my needs/wishes/dreams are just as important as him, when it comes to considering where we might live/work in future. At the moment I feel like I'm just along for the ride".

With him only his wishes are important, you do not even begin to figure. He cannot and most importantly will not give you the above any of those. He cannot do that as he's been hard wired not to. I can tell you now that none of the above is ever going to happen because he honestly feels he has done nothing wrong at all in this relationship.

This is all about him again, I asked you what YOU wanted from counselling, what are your aims in that regard?.

You shouldn't need to do that. If you want him to go, then tell him. He will not change so you have to.

IT IS NOT UP TO HIM WHETHER YOU STAY OR LEAVE.

He's succeeded in persuading you that you can't go unless he's satisified of your reasons! News flash: anybody, in any relationship, can decide they want to end it, all by themselves!