What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

"But I am a nice wife. I am a good woman. I am not a horrible person".

I believe you. No-one has suggested that you are not all of the above.

But you and he are not right for each other and never have. This is a failing marriage. He is at fault here; you've woken up to his ongoing abusive behaviours and he does not like it one bit. He wants to bring you back into line so he can further manipulate and demean you by his words and actions.

What sort of man takes to sulking under the bloody duvet?. He, this immature manchild, frankly deserves a bucket of cold sick chucked over him!.

It's NOT about you. It's about him (hasn't it always been??) He would do this to anybody he was involved with. He can't help it, he's faulty. Nobody can fix him, except himself, and he won't do it because he feels good about himself.

He is incorrectly wired. The real him is the mean-spirited bully. The nice man was pretend. Don't blame yourself, how could you know he was just a fake?

IT IS NOT YOU...IT'S HIM!

Too bloody right!!.

It's good and nice and normal people that this stuff happens to. Because they keep doubting themselves, and feeling that they must somehow be misreading or provosking the situation because the truth (ie that the other person is a manipulative narcissist who lives on a different planet) is untenable.

But how could this go on for 8 years and me still not notice? It's just incomprehensible.

My BIL is a narcissist, this man sounds exactly the same. It's all about him. The nice man was a ruse designed to draw you in.
Not your fault you got taken in by the smoke and mirrors. Would also add that regardless of whom he married, he would have acted exactly the same with them too.

I've known my BIL for much longer than 8 years, he's always been a pita but in the last few years he upped the ante to where he is now (dark place indeed). He no longer speaks to us, thank my lucky stars.

Abusers are very plausible to the outside world.

But that makes me an absolutely awful judge of character doesn't it?

How can I have got it so wrong?

He is still upstairs under duvet by the way, going on 2 hours now.

Took 13 years for the person I knew to end it. You lose sight of what is normal and explain it away. "I'm not perfect either, I provoked him, it's just his temper, when he's happy it's all lovely..."

Other people on the NPD threads - it has been even longer before some of them worked out what was going on and that they had been living in a very strange place for a long long time.

If a narcissist is what he is, then you will probably have a fight on your hands for a while and lots of contradictory behaviour as you try to exit and then he will drop you like a ton of bricks (and your child) and move on to someone else. Well documented phenomenon.

I know this sounds ridiculous but I am very sure he loves me deeply.

I mean, I know a person doesn't act like this to someone they love, but he does adore me.

I hear about other people's marriages - no spark, no hand-holding - he's always telling me he loves me, we are always romantic with each other, every night he holds me until I fall asleep.

It's just everything else that is pear-shaped.

(I'm sorry, I realise some people will be bashing their heads against the wall in frustration by now! It's just incomprehensible to me that I have ended up in this situation.)

I think I need to see my counsellor tomorrow.

Gosh, have just read the first page and it seems all so familiar, including the mother part. Even down to, I once had a two hour walk home in the dead of night in an Asian city for similar reasons.

It has taken years and years and years for us to get round this. Counselling is very hard to come by if you're abroad, because it's either within the expat community, which means you probably know the counsellor or they know your friends, or outside it, in which case cultural values may be very different.

I'm afraid I had to threaten divorce. I took a zero tolerance stance. Whenever it reared its ugly head I would say: Look you are starting it again; you think you are not being aggressive with this, but silence and rejection is extremely aggressive and I do not accept it.

I would state the facts of the case ie: if I had done anything wrong I would accept it and apologise but I would be absolutely clear that I recognised his behaviour for what it was -- aggression.

It is much easier now. The latest was on a recent holiday and I called him on it straight away, and every hour until he stopped. "Look what you are doing. This is active behaviour. This is not me, this is you. It is unnecessary and selfish."

It hasn't gone away totally but he sees it, and kicks out of it a lot more quickly.

haven't read where the thread has gone but just wanted to say I know where you are coming from

Yalla I have read your thread from time to time over the last few weeks.

Your dh was quite possibly thrilled that you were trapped pregnant. Much much harder to leave when living abroad with a child.

Please leave, you are going to be more vulnerable his behaviour is going to get worse, he is going to be jealous of your child etc etc etc.

Just pack your bags and come back to the UK and take it from there. You could probably turn up at womans aid and then make your decision about continuing the pregnancy or not.

Indeed you do. Smart thought, Yalla

He loves the way you reflect him. Is there something, deep in your heart, going "Yes, that's how it is"?

If he knows you well, he will know things about you - your taste in clothes, the name of your first pet, and so on. I bet he doesn't know, though, how you feel; what makes you tick, essentially. To him, the fact that you have thoughts & feelings will always be an irritation because it makes you unpredictable - out of his full control. This aspect of their partners is so galling to people like him, they invariably accuse them of being "out of control". It's not always obvious, to the partner, they mean out of their control!

I have to say, I wouldn't like it if my favourite mirror suddenly started having its own thoughts & feelings

Thanks backtotalk. It's good to know others know where I'm coming from and that I am not alone! How funny about the Asian city thing.

How many years did it take you to get to this stage with your DH, if you don't mind me asking?

The thread moves on quite a bit though from the initial posting, but I'd really welcome any other thoughts you have, if you mange to plough your way further through it.

Yes it is incomprehensible...but IT'S NOT YOU...IT'S HIM.

Towards the end, there was aweekend where my h verbally and emotionally abused the dc's and me non stop!. He started to push my ds around, shouted at mydd so badly that she locked herself in the bathroom and hid from him, and refused to let him read her a bed time story as she was so afraid.

OBVIOUSLY...I caused all that to happen.

And then he gets into bed and hugs me, just like nothing has happened.

grace is right...they are wired up wrong...that's why they think they're not doing anything wrong. Your "horible feeling" is telling you loud and clear that it is very wrong.

and...IT'S NOT YOU IT'S HIM!!!!!

Oh YallaYalla,

. Honestly.

He does adore you?. Cough, splutter!.
You need to get rid of this denial, denial is not just a river in Egypt y'know.

I've been married for 15 years now and DH and me still hold hands. He has never belittled me like your man has; he is not abusive. There are people out there with good marriages. You tend to hear about the unhappier ones more.

This twat is still under the duvet. He would not be under the duvet if he either loved or adored you as you say he does (more denial talking there).

He likes having you around because you are so easy to manipulate and you play along every single bloody time. Do you not see that the damaging lessons you yourself learnt in childhood played into his hands here?.

If he loved you very deeply he would not demean you when driving, at the supermarket, on holiday to only name but three recent flashpoints. He likes goading you to produce a response, you being upset makes him feel happier!. He is truly a twisted individual.

You should do one of two things today:-

1. Go upstairs and throw the duvet off him (have someone with you if you intend to do this incase he turns nasty and or violent).

or my second option - booking a one way ticket back to the UK. Neither are palatable to you are they?.

You keep going on about the incomprehensibility of this situation - if you start trying to analyse this it will send you mad.

You certainly do need to see your counsellor, preferably today.
He loves himself more than he loves you. This is not a loving relationship is it.

Jeez I just caught up.

I don't think it means the end: I think it is possible to recover. He can change.

If you end it, you need to make it clear it is HE who is ending the relationship and not you. It's him. It's his choice to behave the way he is. He could choose a different path and he's refusing this. You need to tell him this over and over and not give a shit if you sound like a whiny nag. You need to tell him you don't give a shit about sounding like a whiny nag. You need to tell him you are doing everything you can to make things better but if he will not then you are off.

If this is the end of your marriage you need to make clear to him that he is making that choice, and not you, because you can't tolerate that behaviour for fifty years. You simply can't. It is dismal and soul destroying. In years to come the fight could be beaten (not literally) out of you. But now you have the strength to fight it and to be honest, if your whole marriage is at stake there is no point worrying about what he thinks about you, or how he sees you, or whether he thinks it's your fault, or how you're coming across.

You need to make clear that you know and are confident it is not a hysterical response: you are rejecting his aggression and he needs to change, or that's that.

backtotalk, would you recommend to Yalla that she live as you do, on your toes, always having to "manage" him?

Grace - he actually knows me incredibly well. Almost to the point where he can mind-read at times. He knew I was going to tell him something big before I told him about the pregnancy, for example, and when he knew I had something to say, he knew it would be a baby. (Before you get freaked out he had NO way of knowing, even by snooping etc).

This is something that I have found very nice over the years actually, as sometimes I find it hard to talk about stuff and he often seems to know what I'm thinking. Which I thought was quite lovely.

Most of the time he is wonderfully supportive of me and my emotions. But of course there are awful times when I am begging him for support and he chooses not to give any at all.

Like now. 7 weeks pregnant - we have only known 3 days - and sitting alone crying my eyes out.

I know what you mean about the control.

I don't believe that they love anyone....not themselves, and not their families. They are disconnected from their feelings especially empathic ones.

They are like toddlers....they can easily "choose chips over daddy", with no conscience whatsoever. iyswim. He has chosen duvet over teddy right now.

Would you leave a toddler to raise a baby?

My dh is not romantic, he doesn't cuddle me to sleep every night (because I couldn't stand it) but yes yes yes he loves me there is a spark there.

Dh has helped me through years of depression, challenged me when I needed to be challenged but no belittling, no bullying.

He was petrified of being a Dad but does all the work/puts in all the effort of supporting them emotionally, taking them places, loving them for who they are.

We are team.

Dh rarely says that he loves me, he doesn't beed to his actions speak so much louder than those 3 little words.

I would agree with ItsgraceAgain. You should not have to "manage" your man in such a manner. Issuing an ultimatum is pointless if it is not followed through.

backtotalk,

re this part of yoru comment:-

"I don't think it means the end: I think it is possible to recover. He can change"

To which I would respond only if Mr Y wants to and he clearly does not. He is more than happy as he is and he is still under that duvet. Its a tactic designed to frighten and belittle his wife; the person whom he is supposed to love and adore.

YallaYalla should not be living like this under any circumstances; this is a pitiful existance. I hate to think what its going to be like once he is a parent if she is still with him.

I thought I had sent a message today already but can not see it: so in case I repeat myself:
To me this sounds as if he might have drink problem. Maybe far fetched but his behaviour so erratic, maybe he just needed another drink that night... . And boy did he get them drinks! and at the same time he made you feel guilty for your behaviour (which was wrong of course- in my opinion but everyone would have flipped. And now you are so confused you poor thing. Your behaviour is now centre of attention and he avoids having to look into his.
If you think this might be true contact AL-Anon (self help group for relatives nad friends of alcoholics). They even have online meetings! LOl, Babs