What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

Yalla

I just wanted to say.

PEOPLE LIKE THIS DO NOT CHANGE.

Please say you are not even considering staying with with this torturous emotional fuckwit for any longer.

If you do, it will be even harder to go in time, and God forbid there may be even children around then for him to stunt their lives with his incredible, abnormal way of living.

Save yourself. Get out now.

Be strong and go. x Bestest wishes. x

It's fear of the unknown that keeps you powerless. As soon as you realise that there is a name for the 'monster under the bed' and that it's even predictable and unfortunately, common, it becomes completely demystified. Armed with these facts about how it works, it can no longer control you because you understand it.

Knowledge is power and it's not always enough just to know what it is, personally I need to understand why it's like that. So that any action I take from then on is informed.

Another one here saying Oh my god, my exP used to go and hide under the duvet too. What is it with these men? (He was a silent-treatment merchant too.)

Yalla I won't bang on about you leaving him as I hope you've already made up your mind to and I wish you luck with your talk tonight although I am concerned for your safety as he has threatened you.

Yalla

I don't say you are "revelling" in the drama as if you are 100% enjoying this whole thing as a thrill.

I am just saying that there comes across a frisson of this aspect when I read your posts, a bit dramatic as if you are playing a role rather than actually living life. Perhaps this is so because this is how you actually feel, how the relationship has made you feel.

It is difficult to put my finger on, but it is just a fleeting impression I get. I got that feeling when you posted your pre-update post, and when you recounted the episode of the near-DV incident.

I may be totally wrong/unfair and I apologise if so.

Your husband sounds intensely frustrating at best and abusive/controlling at worst. As you say, its make or break time. Things can't carry on as they are as they are driving you insane and making you very unhappy.

biscuits Loving your forthright views!!

madonna Yes, I think that's it really. Now I think I know what I'm dealing with, I can understand the behaviour but also more importantly predict it. It feels like the mask has slipped (corny but true). And I do feel much more powerful now I know what's going on. Unfortunately that doesn't stop me feeling upset though.

fizi I will tread carefully thanks. Another man who hides under the duvet?! Perhaps they're related!

bumps - a 'frisson of drama/playing a role'?? Could you please explain? (genuinely interested)

i think we can get stuck in a role and on some level we thrive on the drama - look at the language - he "abandoned" you in unknown city - but actually you knew your way back to hotel...

you were furious,
he has these extreme moods,
you play out your "usual tactics "...etcetc..

not criticising - just pointing out... is too easy to get caught up in the dramas and keep playing out the same little dramatic scenes, again and again....we forget there are other things in life...i think i did this--my life was based around the dramas caused largely by exP - i just followed/reacted... then told the story...

it takes a leap to say hey - leave him out of it - what about you and what you want? what you deserve? what about respect? why is your life based on everything he does and his moods? the drama of the cold silent treatment - then the drama of the coming out of it...you become a willing participant - because maybe the alternative is humdrum and boring...

he enjoys the role too - ultimately he gets your attention... and tellingly you think he will get nasty if/when you tell him you will leave....

and leave you must - even if only on "i need to get away to think" basis...

i agree with cestlavielife.

sometimes it's automatic because we've maybe seen our own parents react to each other in the same unhealthy way.

you're not being accused of anything. it becomes a pattern of drama. i've done it so i understand- the slapping, swearing and histrionics to get a reaction.

same goes for his behaviour- he'd be the same to anyone so in a weird way it's not personal, just something he's learned. and it works- look at all the attention he's getting.

take the drama out of it, be as honest as you possibly can without labouring the point and don't expect things to change overnight.

i sound like fudding trisha but work on yourself.

eh? last two posts an utter load of tripe

OP can do with the posts what she wants, after all she's asked for opinions. i didn't write it to please you, UA.

sorry but I think you are wrong. and your approach seriously undermines what we went through. do not be offended or think I am unneccessarily having a pop. I am not.

proper full-on long-term silent treatment and denying and lying, is bad. A begging wife is bad, sad and a travesty.

There is no joining in on some kind of 'drama' in these cases.

'OP can do with these posts what she wants' ...

that is a shitty insensitive thing to write.

....chuck herself off a bridge for all I care. I am just making my point...'

can you not see ? ffs

i'm not offended at all.

you've got me all wrong. i'm not saying that she's enjoying the drama of it all.

an believe me i absolutely have experience of passive aggression. it is horrendously frustrating.

THAT is why i'm trying to communicate that unwittingly partners of people who stonewall often start playing a role that feeds into it. the cajoling, trying to get him out of the horrible mood, the begging and finally the display of anger is very very familiar.

actually, this man would be like this with anyone. he clearly can't deal with conflict, no doubt due to his own upbringing.

all roads lead to rome. unless he faces it and has counselling for himself in which case he as a chance at changing the pattern.

the 'drama' is understandable but will get her nowhere.

and you must know i didn't mean 'OP can do with the posts what she wants, after all she's asked for opinions' in a flippant way... it IS up to her whether or not she takes any of it on board.

C'est and bumps - I did the ranting, crying thing too. I have only ever behaved like this with four people: my abusive parents and my abusive husbands.

I was not, and am not, a drama queen. I did not provoke the abusive situations. I am not emotionally incontinent. I have no perverse desire to be abused physically, emotionally or any other way. My behaviour was the classic reaction to abuse, as I now know.

Yet my abusers insisted I was at fault: mad; over-emotional; picking fights because I was 'damaged'. Which is pretty much what you've just done to Yalla.

Just seen your last, blinks (and I got your name wrong.) I got what you were trying to say but think you said it in a pointlessly critical way.

how was it critical?

sounds like you've been through the mill IGA. the last line of your post- Yet my abusers insisted I was at fault: mad; over-emotional; picking fights because I was 'damaged'. Which is pretty much what you've just done to Yalla.

that doesn't relate to anything i said so i don't accept that at all.

Leave this knob, love. He's not going to change, or improve, and none of this is either your fault or within your ability to change.
Just because you are a woman doesn't make it your job to manage, service and nuture a man who doesn't give you anything back unless it temporarily suits him to do so.

If you physically torture someone, they bleed. If you psychologically torture them, they rant. It is a symptom of abuse: not a "pattern of drama". That stuff about re-enacting parental drama and "working on yourself" is exactly what abusive partners say.

As you suggest you've been through this yourself, I'm very, very sorry that you still feel it's somehow a flaw in you that led you to it. It isn't; it's what the bastards do to you.

Yes, there are subtle patterns going on in us, as well as them. Prolonged abusive conditioning works, unfortunately. Those are issues to look at after you've extricated yourself from the bully's mind-bending clutches. Which will never happen if all you do is KEEP TRYING to modify your behaviour ... just like your bully tells you to.

"very glad that when you had a horrendous argument with your husband and you were both aggressive and shouted at each other, that afterwards you were both able to chat about it calmly, comfort each other, apologise and move on.

That has never happened to me in 8 years, whether the argument was big or small. I have never had my concerns heard, and after 8 years it does tend to drive one a little round the twist. "

Eight years. He's hardly going to change now, then, is he?

The kids thing is pretty telling, I think. He's telling you loud and clear: never think that I will ever accept a life situation that doesn't revolve around me and my needs.

When someone tells you who they are, listen to them.

cestlavie You say to me: "we thrive on the drama - look at the language - he "abandoned" you in unknown city - but actually you knew your way back to hotel..." I said in my OP that the situation wasn't particularly dramatic security-wise. It wasn't late, the area of the city was fairly safe and I was able to walk home without incident. But it's the principle that I find so crappy. What word do you think I should have used to describe this situation, without daring to come across as someone who wants to indulge in the frisson of drama?

Have you ever been dolled up for a big night out? Having had a fantastic, romantic day with your partner? Let's say you're on holiday in an unfamiliar place, say Scotland. And as you're leaving the pub you nip to the loo. And you come out and he's vanished. Nowhere to be seen. What would you think? Probably, like I did, you'd think he was in the gents. You'd wait a few minutes, as I did, but then work out that can't be the case. Then you think he's wondered off somewhere, looking at the shops. So you walk around a bit too, looking for him. Then you wonder idly if perhaps any harm has come of him, but you can't see any signs of a commotion so you rule that out. And then it dawns on you that he's just left you because he can, and because he wanted to. And that you have no money and no mobile. And that he knows this full well. What would you do? I'm sure, like me, you'd be able to walk back to your hotel without incident. But please don't tell me you wouldn't feel a sense of abandonment. Because that's how I felt. That whether I got home ok was of absolutely no interest or concern to him. If my feeling abandoned in this instance means that I am somehow 'thriving' on the drama, well so be it.

In fact it's my counsellor who keeps bringing me back to this incident. She says that before we even look at any of the other dynamics between us, that she finds it 'incredible' that a husband would just leave/ditch his wife like that.

blinks "actually, this man would be like this with anyone". No, he's not. He may not be particularly great at resolving conflict with others, but he is not like this with others at all. I have never seen him sulk with anyone else. Never seen anyone else receive the silent treatment, let alone for days on end. This is behaviour that is reserved specially for me, his wife. That is why I still think that this is MY problem or OUR problem, and not HIS problem.

You go on to say "i'm trying to communicate that unwittingly partners of people who stonewall often start playing a role that feeds into it". OK fair enough. We all have our 'roles'. But my question to you is, what role do you think I should play in order NOT to unwittingly play into his hands?

Ignoring him doesn't work. Reasoning with him doesn't work. Begging doesn't work. Tears don't work. Anger doesn't work. So, if none of this works, how AM I supposed to behave in order to stop this awful behaviour?

In fact, that was really the question I was asking in my original post - what can I do to stop this happening? The answer, from many wise women here, appears to be nothing, and that whatever I do the behaviour will remain the same. I am beginning to see that myself.

But, please, don't accuse me of playing a role and that I am doing something to deserve this. At least, that's what I'm hearing from you - that it's my sense of drama, my sense of role-playing, that is making this worse.

ok- i meant he would be like this with anyone in an intimate relationship. i didn't mean his boss/mates etc. of course he reserves it for his wife- no on else would put up with it.

'Ignoring him doesn't work. Reasoning with him doesn't work. Begging doesn't work. Tears don't work. Anger doesn't work. So, if none of this works, how AM I supposed to behave in order to stop this awful behaviour?'

EXACTLY. this is my point- you can't change him. it's not about trying to find a way to make it stop. once you realise this you're life will change.

when dealing with people like your husband who can't deal with conflict (and i can guarantee that it's mainly down to fear), you can't buy into the emotional manipulation. it's like trying to box a shadow.

i don't think you should play a role. be yourself. be honest and if you don't get any response tell him you won't accept that behaviour and leave if he makes no effort or becomes abusive.

don't think i don't know how difficult it is to deal with a passive aggressive manipulator.

and no-one has said you deserve this. no-one. so to jump to that conclusion is unnecessary. what people are saying is that by spending years involved in this type of relationship and dealing with his sulking/stonewalling you end up participating in a cycle of events. not participating is the key.

Yalla I am so glad you are beginning to see that there is nothing you can do to change the awful way he treats you.

HE is the drama queen. He loves the drama of winding you up tightly like clockwork then letting go of the key and watching you unravel.

Of course he doesn't do it to other people. He doesn't live with and is not married to other people. You are his captive. His legal captive and he will continue to abuse you and treat you like a wind-up plaything until you leave him or get him out of your life.

What UA said.