What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

I did wonder where Blinks was coming from at first, but I think I see what she means now. The abuser has a script in their head, the drama, the fixed idea of what "ought" to happen, and keeps manipulating the partner until he/she eventually plays it out. The partner doesn't know what the game is, indeed why should they even suspect there is a game, when in a normal healthy relationship there wouldn't be? It's only when you recognise there is one being played, on you , that you're able to step back from the conditioned response and break out of it - either out of the cycle of behaviour, or out of the relationship altogether.

I never realised it was a game until after I was out of it, looked back and realised, and what a bloody fool I felt. I'm still not totally out of it (as we have joint parental responsibility for DS4); sometimes I can't help having a go at him, then I see him give a little smirk and think dammit, he still gets off on knowing he's had some impact on me, even if it's a totally negative one. Must not engage...

No, I did not enjoy the drama one bit. By trying to get everything back to normal, though, spookily enough, I was unwittingly perpetuating it. It's like being on a see-saw, feeling sick, trying to hold it straight but the person at the other end carries on pushing, ignoring your pleas to stop. As long as you keep countering their actions you are effectively participating. The day you say "Wait a minute, this is a see-saw, isn't it?" you realise you can get off, and then they can push all they like but they won't be pushing you anywhere.

Yalla - that he reserves the behaviour exclusively for you is a clear indication that it's his problem and that the problem is that he is an abuser.
He thinks he's entitled to bully you because you're his property. Men like him don't change. Very best of luck in getting away.
(BTW if you have a shared mortgage or somesuch, do take legal advice before you actually walk out. Even if you are not married and don't have children, you don't necessarily have to walk away with nothing - and you know, don't you, that there is no way on earth this man will deal with the separation in a fair, ethical manner unless legally compelled to do so).

that's exactly what i'm saying anniegetyourgun.

it's easy to get drawn into it and it's not a criticism to point it out. it's only once the cycle of behaviour is stopped that you can see the cycle clearly.

my parents were similar so i recognise OP's desperation to make him stop/change and the inevitable disappointment and anger when he doesn't.

you have to watch you don't lose yourself in that kind of relationship.

no no no - i didnt explain myself properly - i meant that we get caught up and until we see the light we can carry on playing the drama - it isnt "willing" and i am sorri if i implied that -

i have been there done that... had nice evenings ruined by his actions or his verbal comments etcetc... routine outings became huge dramas - caused by him but i repsonded in awys which made it even more dramatic - catastrophising - him catastrophising but me getting wholly caught up in it....

later when i was in counselling i went in saying "and he did this to me.... "and then he did that..." "and then he ..."

counsellor then said - look leave him out of this - he isnt in this room. he isnt here. this is YOUR life...

is easy to get cauhgt up in his anger/reaction/behaviour - it was a revelation to somehow learn to realise "i am not repsonsible for his anger/behaviour"

i was caught up in the drama of his actions and behaviours and what i did next and then what he did next....

my life revolved around him his moods his depression his everything... - just as he wanted it to be...it was his control...

he STILL tries to do that - stuff he does (eg losing our ds last sunday while in his care) becomes my fault "well you should have come with us to look after him")

not sure if i explain it clearly - but somehow their control/abusive beahviour leads us to respond and get caught up in the drama - and it is only when we realise that that we can change ourselves and can change our behaviour ...

it is a continuation of the theme - you CANNOT change him - you can change your repsonse to his actions you can make YOUR decisions...he will then decide how to react...

Phew! Glad we're all speaking the same language again.

and yeah "dont engage" ....is hard to do...i remember being caught up in one incident - him screaming at me and me screaming back - my friend who was caught up in this particualr incident (she was giving me a lift somewhere and he jumped in teh car and started going on and on) trying to say to me "dont engage! dont respond! ..."

i was there caught up in drama.... always a drama...is hard....but also that once you start the process of realising you can change your behaviour (but not his) and that you caught up in it...then you can start withdrawing and thinking about your life -- not his.

Yalla - this is not your problem, it's his. You've just got caught up in the middle of the web of his game.....

It's soul destroying to be driven to the edge of sanity/reason etc. by someone who winds you up and then just stands and watches you while you go mad......

It is not your fault. In my honest opinion, I think you are flogging a dead horse. He will not change his behaviour because he doesn't want to. It suits him to be an emotional bully, whether it's his upbringing or not - everyone has a choice. He's made his - now it's your turn to make yours....

Yalla, how are you doing today?

Everything ok Yalla?

Hi from me, too

this thread has been rather sobbering for me. Your OP could have been written by me its exactly how my husband behaves, rarely, but often enough for it to have started worrying me. The stone walling and the moodiness (often about nothing to do with me but he takes it out on me) make me walk on eggshells around him.

Thank you for posting this as I have literally had a lightbulb moment but I don't know where to start from here.

We have never had any violence at all or threats of it but he has a terrible temper which goes off and is awful to be around.

Like yours he a wonderful Dh in so many other ways, I always thought I was quite lucky. And now I am reeling. Like you I consider myself to be strong and independent and I am totally independent of him financially which is suddenly looking like a good idea.

How do I know whether this is abuse or whether I sometimes have a grumpy husband who does not want to talk about things but just stews for a few hours?

OP I really hope things get better for you and am sending you un mn hugs.

Sorry to hear what you're going through, Susie.

I'm copying in a few bits from the pages that are linked below.

*

Do you:

• feel afraid of your partner much of the time?
• avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner?
• feel that you can?t do anything right for your partner?
• believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated?
• wonder if you?re the one who is crazy?
• feel emotionally numb or helpless?

Does your partner:

• humiliate or yell at you?
• criticize you and put you down?
• treat you so badly that you?re embarrassed for your friends or family to see?
• ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments?
• blame you for his own abusive behavior?
• see you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person?

Does your partner:

• have a bad and unpredictable temper?
• hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you?
• threaten to take your children away or harm them?
• threaten to commit suicide if you leave?
• force you to have sex?
• destroy your belongings?

Does your partner:

• act excessively jealous and possessive?
• control where you go or what you do?
• keep you from seeing your friends or family?
• limit your access to money, the phone, or the car?
• constantly check up on you?

Read the whole page, it's very good:
helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm

*

The more subtle forms of emotional abuse can be the hardest to escape from, because the gaps between the loving, caring behavior and the emotional cruelty can span several weeks or months.

Not all emotional abusers criticize their partners directly - sometimes it can be as simple as constantly criticizing how someone keeps a kitchen, or complaining about the mess in the house, or continuous grumbling about the laundry, or complaining about the noise and mess the kids make. He will make her think it is her job to keep him happy, and imply that household things are contributing to his unhappiness and bad temper.

Emotional abusers may use punishment tactics like leaving (without a word to you), a party or function that you both went to. They will have socially plausible, pathos-laden excuses for their unannounced departure, like they couldn't find you, or they were tired and wanted to go home. However, the REAL reason they left without a word, was to punish you; to wind you up, to get you worried about them, and ultimately, to have you feel guilty for not paying enough attention to them.

Although this is a very long page, it's the best description of emotional abuse I've ever seen. Read it and see if you're in it!
www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml

*

• They put your friends down and / or make it difficult for you to see them.

• They lose their temper over trivial things.

• They have very rigid ideas about the roles of men and women and can't / won't discuss it reasonably.

• Their mood swings are so erratic that you find yourself constantly trying to assess their mood and only think in terms of their needs. A healthy relationship has give and take.

• It's difficult for you to get emotional or physical space away from them - even if you directly ask for it. And if you do get it, they 'grill' you about where you've been and who you were with.

• They criticise you all the time - about your weight, your hair, your clothes, etc.

• They make all the decisions in your relationship and ignore your needs or dismisses them as unimportant.

www.bbc.co.uk/relationships/domestic_violence/youhh_index2.shtml

*

At the end of the day, you don't need a label for your partner's behaviour (though it helps). If you're always on pins, always pre-checking what you say, always trying to manage his mood or to change how you are - the relationship is harming you & is bad for you. And you should end it.

The thing about abuse is: it only needs to be sporadic. If your partner shows you only ONCE how scary he can be - and you then remain "careful" of him ever after - he has succeeded in gaining control of you. In just a few moments!

Scary, huh? Nothing for it but to run

Yalla, great to hear from you, and im so glad you went to counselling. You asked why things have got so bad so quickly , it because your standing up to him, and he doesnt like it.

I identify with you slapping him, they wind you up to that point deliberateley, another way of controlling you and also a way to justify abusing you. You need to be carefull , as he suggested, he might well hit you back, his justification will be that you hit him first. When they realise that the current method is no longer working, and youve cottoned on, they often step it up.
Youll need to be VERY carefull.

Im glad you realise what hes doing and are objecting to it.Like others i think your chats will get you nowhere, other than very frustrated. Earlier in the thread there were suggestions of reading certain books , did you get round to ordering them ?

If not, please do, because i think an important thing your missing is WHY hes doing it.These men feel ENTITLED to treat you this way, and worse, they do not see it as being abusive. They have deep seated beleifs that chats wont resolve , he honestly feels entitled to treat you this way, it is his right as far as he is concerned.

Many of us whove been in these relationships continue to try to resolve it , often many times before we finally come away, sometimes we stick around to prove it really is IS that bad. Its hard, and an upsetting thing to come to terms with.

Please order those books and for your own safety do not try to discuss it further.Continue to read everything you can and get as much support as possible, there is often a script that plays out so stay on your toes.

ItsGraceAgain thanks so much for this, I am going to go through it carefully. Of the intial lists I am only ticking one of the boxes in some of the categories, notably They lose their temper over trivial things and avoiding certain topics but as you say, is it the think end of the wedge?

Yalla, apologies for the thread hijack but perhaps you will feel better knowing your post may have helped someone else in this position!

" But I'm worried that a temporary separation will become permanent for needless practical reasons, rather than emotional ones."

Yalla, are you still worried about that?

Because I think that the separation needs to be permanent for both practical and emotional reasons (he's dangerous to you) but if that weren't the case, please be assured that a man who genuinely loves a woman and wants to save his marriage, will move heaven and earth to make sure that a practical separation doesn't become permanent just because of a few details like aeroplane times, business meetings etc. (Your husband earns enough to cope with the logistics.)

If there is anything there worth saving and your husband wants to save it (and you do), then you will. Don't put yourself through the pointless justification you seem to feel you owe him (which also, is dangerous - don't forget, he will sense that the old tactics are not working and so may well try new ones), on the skewed logic that you have to give him a chance. There is plenty of time to give him a chance, but you don't have to be in the same house as him to do so. Any reasonable man would understand that your safety is your paramount concern and a normal man who had had a one off moment of madness would be heartbroken at his own behaviour, ashamed, afraid of losing you forever and offering to go to counselling or do anything you demanded to prove that he deserved to keep you as his wife. He would most certainly understand that you had every right to move out until he'd proved himself.

But you already know that your husband isn't a normal man, don't you? He's told you in no uncertain terms that you are not allowed to leave him - and you must know that when abusers sense that they are losing control of their victims, that is when they are most dangerous to them. So I would really urge you to re-think whether you need to have this conversation with him - he's already told you that it's pointless, and it may be far worse than pointless, it may actually be dangerous. Be very careful.

Yalla , i honestly hope you are able to take these warnings about his behaviour escalating seriously. Your wanting to chat to him about it and rescue this is completeley normal, but futile. He is not a normal man, as Herbea says, but a damaged one , one who has absorbed societys veiw that women are inferior and objects to be owned.Be very alert for covert sexual abuse as you consider leaving this relationship.

Can you imagine someone asking you to challenge your most profound beleifs ? Say you were a devout catholic, and someone came along and told you that its wrong, and a load of crap. Can you imagine how strongly you would defend those beleifs ? Would you be willing to consider that everything you know is wrong, your parents are wrong, your school and freinds were wrong, the crap that the media feeds you is wrong. You would likeley not accept it , same as hes not going to.

His actions and words are those of a man who feels right, and entitled. He expects you to put up and shut up and stop moaning about what he feels is completeley acceptable behaviour.

Its likeley you will not be ble to think straight or be objective until you are away from him. Im sorry your going through this , but equally pleased that you are not prepared to sweep it under the carpet.

I have just spent the past three months in a womens refuge with my DD after leaving a man similar to this. Trust me, it does get worse, it does escalate and it is serious.

My ex used to go silent on me for hours, sometimes days and often weeks at a time. If I challenged him he would storm out of the house after giving me vile abuse. He recently told me he had to leave the house to stop himself from killing me. And he meant it too. That made me realise what a lucky escape I had had.

You have be warned!

Hi everyone,

Didn't mean to go silent but I just felt I had to withdraw from this a little as it was all getting a bit too much, and I just wanted a break from thinking about this. I was getting exhausted!

We had a long chat at the weekend. I think it helped that we were both calm. It went relatively well. I told him clearly the behaviours I have problems with. This is the first time he will have heard this.

He doesn't want to go to counselling but said he will go if he needs to (i.e. if I say he must). He said he doesn't feel he will be able to change the silent treatment stuff, but says that he doesn't want to hurt me. He says it's not about hurting me, it's about withdrawing (some strange line about 'you [one] can only rely on yourself, I withdraw to get strength, you can only rely on yourself for strength in life and I withdraw when I feel threatened, it's about taking strength'). I do feel this is partly true (screwed up childhood where he had to rely on himself a lot as got zilch in terms of support from his parents), but told him the net result is I get incredibly upset and that's simply not acceptable. I said I cannot be in a relationship with a husband who does that. 24 hours after the chat he called and said he'd been thinking about everything I said. He said he would be willing to go to counselling if that's what was needed.

Anyway. Things get weird now! Fast forward to 2 days ago. I have not been feeling right recently (dizzy, tired, bit sick) and something, I don't know what, made me take a pregnancy test. It was positive!

AAAAaaaaaaagh !

I went to the doctors yesterday. Confirmed with a scan. 6 weeks gone. I must have conceived literally as we were having that argument in Asia because we have not had sex since that incident.

How ironic [rueful smile]. Why does life DO this to you?

Obviously this just changes everything. I phoned a friend in tears of panic the day I found out. She was, as usual, the voice of calm and reason and pointed out I have lots of options. To have it, or not. To have it alone, or together. I would definitely get financial support from DH, even if he doesn't want participation. So I could have it alone, if I needed to.

Anyway, I told him the news last night (hadn't seen him since our chat at the weekend as he's been away on business). His response floored me. He was totally happy, totally supportive, totally loving. Asked all the right questions, was genuinely pleased (this is not a man who can hide his emotions well).

So. I don't think I can contemplate not having this child. I have literally been yearning for a baby for the past 2 years, especially so in the past few weeks and months. Almost like a physical pain. Obviously the timing could have been better though!

I'm not quite sure why I'm posting. I think I need support rather than 'leave him he'll become an abusive father as well as a crappy husband'. I do have a gut feeling that this is right though. I have a feeling this could work out.

I am also wondering whether part of my at times rather hysterical reaction over the past few weeks could, in fact, have been pregnancy hormones? I am not excusing his behaviour one iota, don't get me wrong, but I'm wondering whether my body somehow knew that now, this behaviour is not acceptable, and that led me to challenge it in a way I haven't before? That on some level I was protecting myself? I don't want to mitigate my feelings, as I was massively depressed, hysterical at times, had end-of-world awful feelings. There is no doubt I was desperately upset. But I am now wondering how much this might have been hormones, and how much they might have been pushing on reactions, or making me over-exaggerate things?

Or perhaps this is all new-age hogwash .

Anyway. It's early days. Obviously I had NO idea I was pregnant (2 doctors in fact told me that I didn't ovulate last month - so much for their expertise) so I stopped taking folic acid, ate crappy foods and drank alcohol. But there is a realistic prospect of a child coming into all this now.

Anyone with sage advice, please feel free to add some.

Tell it like it is, but please [whispers]... gently.

Hi YallaYalla,

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

I am still not hopeful re him as he is only going to counselling at your instigation (an approach that is often doomed to failure). He has also said he will attend "if he needs to" - that to me says he is still taking no responsibility for his actions now or beforehand or even admits any past wrong doing. He does not think he has done anything wrong at all - his mother acted like this also and he has learnt from her. All his talk about "strength" (pah, that's his Mother for you) and now after a further chat with you he says he'll go to counselling. He changes his mind more often than the weather!. Actions though speak louder than words so when is his first appt?. BTW do not attend counselling with him under any circumstances!.

I would ask you this all the same. Are you at all prepared for the risk he could well do the same silent treatment to this child as he has to you?. What has really changed here?.

Re this comment:-
"I am also wondering whether part of my at times rather hysterical reaction over the past few weeks could, in fact, have been pregnancy hormones? I am not excusing his behaviour one iota, don't get me wrong, but I'm wondering whether my body somehow knew that now, this behaviour is not acceptable, and that led me to challenge it in a way I haven't before? That on some level I was protecting myself? I don't want to mitigate my feelings, as I was massively depressed, hysterical at times, had end-of-world awful feelings. There is no doubt I was desperately upset. But I am now wondering how much this might have been hormones, and how much they might have been pushing on reactions, or making me over-exaggerate things?"

Or perhaps this is all new-age hogwash".

What!. More like one step up and two steps back. You will hang yourself by your own petard if you truly believe the above as it is a triumph of hope over experience. You want this to work out so badly with him regardless of the facts. I still think you are in denial with regards to the state of your relationship overall and this is partly due to not wanting to really believe what has happened to you. You, a strong woman!. Also your parents (like his) taught you some skewed lessons re relationships when growing up. You have not unlearnt those at all but you are both repeating them.

You are living in a foreign country without a great level of support. You are still reliant on him and now being pg you are even more vulnerable.

Your pg hormones will have you all over the place emotionally but that is seriously NOT why you have acted as you have these past few weeks. Its gone on longer than that although it has taken you a long time to see it.

You need to consider your future with him as its all gone "rosy" again, it is seemingly rosy for now but really for how long?. How will he cope with the realities of parenting?. I can't see him coping at all well but he will because he will carry on being at work all the time and go off on business trips. You will be left holding the baby in a foreign land and further isolated.

Do you think his threat to punch you in the face was your pregnancy hormones speaking?

Do you think his assertion that you won't split up (because he decides when and how you split up, that's his decision, not yours, because he's in control), was your hormones speaking?

I don't.

It is no co-incidence that 75% of domestic violence begins in pregnancy or in the first year after having a first baby.

Be prepared for a very rocky ride. You need to put some really firm boundaries down right now. Remember, all abusers are loving and supportive and fantastic at crucial times when if they weren't, they'll be dumped. They sense when they need to pull out the stops. If he hadn't been supportive, do you think you'd be blaming your pregnancy hormones for his abusive behaviours?

Sorry, forgot to say congratulations on your pregnancy - hope it all goes well for you.

The domestic violence in my relationship began in ernest when I was 7 weeks pregnant. It escalated slowly but surely throughout the relationship. The baby made not the slightest bit of difference to him, he spared no thought for her at all. Through out her 7 years DD has witnessed everything.

Even though I have left him he continues to abuse and try to control me. He is presently taking me to court for having moved my daughter to a school local to the house we are now living in. I can't see an end to this man's abuse of me.

Congratulations on the baby but please do not let this distort the truth of what is happening to you.

Congratulations, Yalla. Please ask yourself (now or in a little while) whether this fragile, tiny and precious foetus of yours represents, to you, improvements in your relationship. It's a fresh, new & innocent life, dependent on you for everything it needs to become a happy grown-up in due course. Are you hoping it will help you?

I really mean that as an open question, not a judgement.

Thanks for your advice ladies.

I only found out the baby news 48 hours ago, and part of me just wants to be able to take a few days to be happy, to revel in the news a bit, to have a nice and normal reaction.

But I recognise I can't just bury my head in the sand, although it's by far the easiest option.

I think I have to give this child a chance at being brought up by two parents. That is the best scenario, as long, as course, if it works out well. But I think that while I am in a marriage with a man who will provide, who will step up to the plate etc, that I would be mad just to walk away now without a backward glance. I have to TRY to make this work.

I do hear all of your points though. In some ways, I think it makes things more clear cut for me, and possibly easier.

There will be no grey areas. There will be no 'just this once I can let this slide'. Although the timing of this is in some ways awful, in others it could be good. Because the veil has been lifted, and I know what I'm dealing with now. So if anything happens in the future that I am not 100% happy about, or 100% happy for our child to witness, then I will hopefully have the strength and the awareness to be able to do what it takes to get out.

I imagine a lot of you will worry about me becoming 'trapped'. I don't feel like that. He earns a good wage and if it goes pear-shaped I will get enough to be able to set up a good little home alone, me and the bean. In some ways that makes me feel I have some control (although I am under no illusions).

He has said he is willing to try counselling and I will now suggest that we go ahead and do this. If he refuses, that will be a red flag. If he can't commit to that, then how committed will he be to our little family?

Grace again - yes, a good question you pose. I think that is something I should keep in my mind all the time. Things simply must be as right as can be for this little person. I certainly don't think this baby will be a sticking plaster of any kind. I recognise this is when the hard work starts! And that even the most stable of relationships are totally rocked by the arrival of a child.

I think, at this stage, all I can do is proceed while hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

Attila (or anyone else): If he goes to counselling alone, how will I know what is being discussed? Can I get him to see the same woman I am, but separately, or is that not correct procedure either? We live in such a tiny place there are literally only 4 or 5 counsellors, so not much choice. What should the set up be? I need to know a counsellor won't be counselling HIM, but counselling his behaviours, iykwim.

Hi YallaYalla,

Re your comment:-

"Attila (or anyone else): If he goes to counselling alone, how will I know what is being discussed? Can I get him to see the same woman I am, but separately, or is that not correct procedure either? We live in such a tiny place there are literally only 4 or 5 counsellors, so not much choice. What should the set up be? I need to know a counsellor won't be counselling HIM, but counselling his behaviours, iykwim".

Short answer to the first question is that you will not know anything.

He may well be able to see the same counsellor as you but in his case I am actually doubtful if he will attend any counselling sessions at all. I think if he did, he will drop it after just one or two sessions as he may not like what is being said to him!.

Actions speak far louder than mere words here, I am wondering whether he will actually go to counselling at all.

I realise you would like this child brought up by both of you but that may not ultimately be possible in your case. You need to bear that in mind. Children are very perceptive and this child will pick up on all the unspoken tensions between you particularly when he starts the silent treatment again. Why would he stop that?.

You both learnt damaging relationship lessons from your parents; are you really wanting this child to protentially see your overall damaging relationship thus perpetuating this cycle?.

You have said you will try to make this work, what about him though?. All he has done is pay lip service to date. What has he really done other than threaten you in various ways covertly?. He's told you that you won't split up!.

What has really changed now between him and you?.

As you say hope for the best and prepare for the worst. You may ultimately have to buy you and baby a one way ticket back to the UK.