'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

exotic I meant to say to you that I was cheering when you wrote that you would take the money and manage it/have it managed yourself.
Think you have made the right decision. This must be a huge stride for you. I understand only too well how these people work to make you depend on them. My father is similar, which is why choosing and buying my own car was quite a big thing for me. Yes at 41 years old
I dont think I properly left home til very recently mentally I was still there even when I'd left physically. Every time I left physically I had some kind of breakdown.

atilla In answer to your question I think it is because they 'need' that child to depend on them.
This is the most sinister type of narcisstic mother in my opinion, because they come off as so loving and nurturing but it is still all about their needs.
I mean if someone is going to be a rescuer in the family they have to have someone to rescue.
They literally sacrifice their adult childs' right to an independent being so they can continue to feed off of them.
If I had to pick between your DH and BIL I know which of the two I'd rather be.
Whatever way you look at it sure 'aint pretty is it.

I thought I was doing good today,went to coffee morning at WA and shared insights into how my experiences with all 3 fathers of my 5 dc's were unsurprising given my relationship with my parents,oh so grounded and clear...Looking forward to future with dc's;being the kind of mother I never had....

My parents turned up unannounced within half an hour of my return, and got stuck in on my "self imposed misery" and how I'm "wallowing in ridiculous sadness " whilst "preventing my baby from having a father"

Yes,but ,like my xp,they deliver this stuff ina cheerful ,friendly way,almost as an aside to the wittering on about wonderful brother and sil and their perfect story book life.Anyone else listening would be unlikely to notice,or would hear it as dotty and harmless,well-meant even.

Only my xp ever "heard" them or "believed" me.

I "disappear" into silent passivity when they are here.Partly because they don't notice if I speak or not - unless I "misbehave"( step outside script) and also because I have no energy and am almost constantly breastfeeding - spoiling my baby to meet my own needs, apparently .

Prettylegs - I so empathise.I don't feel suicidal this time.Not sure if I'm numb,post natal or have moved on...Belly crying..always in the middle of the night,when I ache for the bastard that has not contacted me for a week now (how can he care so little about his baby?) even though I am healthier and calmer without him and relish the validation at WA.

The feeling of loss and abandonment about him were magnified a thousand times during and after their visit...Now they have gone,I really,REALLY want to phone him and beg him to come and hold me..

So is it "mummy" I want/need/crave/ache for ?

If so,that is irreparable and an irreplaceable loss...and if the nearest I have ever had to a "loving" partner is an abusive twat and also confusingly enmeshed in my thoughts and feelings with what I never had from mother and father.....Then does that mean I 'm facing years of lonely therapy ,or risk further twat-bonding abusive relationships- if I ever feel up to trying again (god help me,can't imagine it)

Sorry if I am posting selfishly and not engaging very well with everyone.I do find everyone's posts so moving and brave.Thank you for letting me share.

argh going round in circles a bit with trying to get out of this black and white thinking that is part of dysfunctional families

I am thinking a lot about the times in the past when I have acted immorally and hurt people. A lot of this behaviour was driven by my survival stratagies learnt in childhood. I am not excusing it as ultimately we are responsible for our own actions but I can see so clearly how I nearly acted out the same script as my family. I would love to go back and make amends to certain people but I can't.

So I could act immorally and hurt people. I am pretty sure I would not act like this again though especially after all my soul searching and realising the drive behind these actions i.e. low self esteem, fear, searching unconditional love etc. I was also young and drunk a lot of the time.

I am allowed to be imperfect and to make mistakes. If I have hurt people I am allowed to forgive myself if I regret it and feel deeply sorry for what I have done. I am shades of grey after all

But what of my abusers? Are they shades of grey? If I have acted imperfectly surely they are allowed to? If I can forgive myself should I forgive them?

Is nothing black or white? Surely abuse is very black indeed - wrong, bad, evil or whatever label you want to give to it. Some of my past behaviour has entailed abuse of others so I know how easy it can be to slip into the role of abuser when you feel like you are fighting for your life.

I worry that all these shades of grey will force me where I don't want to go, and that is to have to forgive my abusers.

Maybe whilst I have abused there is a spectrum? I know I did wrong and regret it and if I could put it right for those involved I would. My abuse I feel was not on the scale of my adoptive parents' abuse. I was acting out and desperately trying to fill the huge gap in my life by drinking, flirting and cheating. However I feel the real me always surfaced gasping for air and stopped the damaged part of me before I totally ruined myself or others.

My abusers took it to its ghastly conclusion, totally confusing script with reality and erasing out any remnants of their real selves. They have no insight or regret and maybe that is the huge difference. Does this allow me to side step forgiveness?

It is so confusing

PM- If only I knew the answer...but I do wonder if its tantamount to reaching for the nearest pain duller/addiction.
After all that's what I'd always want to do after contact with her (thats my own bastard mother by the way ). I'd want to just numb the f'ing pain after seeing her because it was literally like having old wounds ripped apart. So I'd reach for the cigs, the bottle, the E's, or the latest twat of a boyfriend. Anything but feel it.
Maybe he's your pain duller (or numb-er if there's such a word)

rose I think it does make a huge difference.
The fact that you seek insight and you seek forgiveness for any 'immoral' acts as you have called them.
Have your GM and SGF ever sought either of these things I doubt it, I'm sure they believe themselves to be above reproach.
What you have done in the past was misguided, borne out of a mixture of pain and adolescence but you must remember you did not systematically abuse anyone. There is a difference.
Recently you lashed out in anger, that was wrong and you admitted that. But your son has not been brought up in an 'atmosphere' of abuse, as you did where knowing acts to be wrong they are still repeated over and over again.

I can't keep up!

I read something the other day/week that said that forgiveness is over rated. It cheered me because I....well we, here on this thread, have had the wherewithall to face this...and they haven't.....YET. If they do then I can and will forgive, but until then, unless something else changes, then no.

And it's the systematic nature of it, and the fact that it is so natural and second nature that it does indeed become "tittle tattle". My God, what poisonous and destructive power that tittle tattle has.

I also think that a child can sense that unconditional love or not. It is an instinctive drive for what babies and children have needed in order to survive millenia. In purely animal terms it is the difference between the cat that licks, feeds and nurtures her kittens and the one that abandons them behind a fridge (a story I read)

My children are unconditionally loved. They are loved because they are the only them in the whole world and they are mine. They are allowed to fail, to be imperfect and to be whoever the hell they want to be. I think they know this on some unconscious level. I have always apologised when I have overstepped the mark with ds and taken time to tell him it was not him, but that his mummy was very tired and stressed. Sorry is a big and important word.

I didn't have this and I knew it. I think abused children know something is wrong but they turn it on themselves and think something is inherently wrong with them.

yes I think true forgiveness is rare and only reserved for particular situations

Thinking forward to when my children are grown, if my ds ever came to me and said 'mum I remember occasions when you got really angry and lashed out, it hurt'

I will say sorry I was wrong but it had nothing to do with you, you were a wonderful kid and cherished so dearly. I was stressed and tired due to personal problems and I failed because I took it out on you.

However these moments have been rare thankfully. He gets lots of love, fun and laughs and I hope these are his predominany memories.

I just have no memories of cuddles, stories, warmth and laughter. I have come to the stark realisation that there wern't many. Any hug was offered as a bargaining tool of silence after something terrible had been said. Those hugs make me shiver with disgust. So cold, so fake and lifeless - I could not stand her near me.

My hugs with ds however are all consuming bear hugs! When he curls he seems to fit perfectly into the crook of my body as I lie in bed and I can bury my face in his thick brown hair - if he is still sleepy it is best because he lingers before he realises he wants to jump all over me, all limbs and cold feet!

Rose....that's right, I'm sure it is.

I always knew that my mother did not love me, or want me to exist.

It sounds trite but it's that "he's just not that into you" thing. People just know.

I knew from being very small indeed that I did not matter. I used to beg my mum to love me....as I have all my boyfriends/ husbands. (hard to write but true).

I have always used the phrase...."someones most important thing". I used it first about my neice, and there was planet load of transference going on...that she has never been anyone's "most important thing"

I may go over the top with my dc's to let them know that they are the most amazingly precious creatures on the planet. I hope and believe that they feel unconditional love, because they surely have it.

They love each other too, which gives me that warm, lovely, roast beef dinner feeling that I crave so much. One of my stated aims in counselling....tick it off!

rose That's absolutely what seperates you from them. You 'are' shades of grey but in the right way.
You bring your son and dd up in an atmosphere of love and warmth, but you are human and like all of us occasionaly you screw up.
Your Gm and SGF on the other hand brought you up in an atmosphere of coldness, callousness with a smattering of love thrown in.
If you went to them tommorrow and expressed your pain at this, would they express sorrow, ask for forgiveness? I doubt it.

prettylegs I knew that from and early age too. So sad isnt it.

I have expressed my pain to them and my SGF responded by cutting me out of his life - he won't speak or have anything to do with me

It wasn't part of the script you see so I have to be punished until I agree to act my part again. But I won't this time and I never will again. He cannot bully me anymore.

I cannot express enough how my experiences fit in with the theories discussed here about scripts, roles and narcissism. It is like my whole life now makes sense which is scary but also liberating.

Surely there is a need to raise awareness about this in the public arena? I know it would be hard but I feel it is these themes which underpin all abuse in dysfunctional families.

I have the more obvious memories of abuse but it is the more subtle forms that troubled me the most and which were almost impossible to explain to others. They now make perfect sense thanks to this thread and the literature I have read on the subject.

I am sure my mother's mental illness was made worse by the abuse and neglect, if not caused by it. One eerie piece of information sticks out at me. On the application for adoption forms my SGF is asked for his opinion regarding taking me on. He talsk about my mother being free of her responsibilities and able to start her life afresh. It is like he has no concept of the impossibility for a mother (a normal one anyway) to just switch off from her child. He could feel like that so he thinks everybody can feel like that in his classic narcissistic way. He has proven his own theory by turning his back on me just like that. I know that my mother never did switch off her feelings for me though and it made her ill knowing I was with a man who had tried to seduce her and a her mother who was a narcissist. It broke her heart that I called them mum and dad

Prettylegs - it is those lovey, warm roast beef dinner moments which you have to hang onto, which I feel are the essence of family life.

You're making me think a little harder about my ishoos of the day.

In order to retain the support I get, I have to demsonstrate that I can't cope alone. I do a pretty poor job of that, with all my "I'm FINE!" guff. More alarmingly, though, I am expected to show I need my mother's help. On an intellectual level, I'm OK with this - the people who process my forms neither know nor care about my parental relationship. But, emotionally, I am not okay with it. Mum gets a lot of mileage out of how much she helps me (hahaha). I resent having to reinforce her script.

I realise that my sibs have arrived a halfway point where I'm concerned. They know our shared childhood caused loss of confidence, trust issues, etc for all of us. To that extent, my problems validate this for them. But they can't face the true horrors of what happened, so choose to characterise me as paranoid, over-sensitive, blaming and so forth. Intellectually again, I'm satisfied with that. But I am angry really. It plays into Mum's hands - and makes my job harder.

The birthday party's an odd one. When I announced it, I got loads of approval (Grace takes care of family needs, hurrah; Grace looks out for Mummy, good-oh.) As soon as I started asking for commitments to help, though, it all went watery. The only person who has made a definite commitment is a SIL - who is her family's caretaker. I will make this work correctly, but I'm a tad pissed off at all this triggering when they KNOW what I'm going through. Hrrrmph!

I wish I didn't find it so bloody hard to clarify my own needs - and put them first.

The other day, I comforted myself with some therapeutic baking. I posted on FB along the lines of "I've made a thousand chocolate cookies and am going to get fat." My sister posted back, like lightning, "You mean fatter!" WTF???! Who says that sort of thing - in public?

PM, I am SO HAPPY you had a good experience with WA! I really believe this is the start of sanity & good stuff for you. Hope you do, too!

I imagine you're spot-on with your evaluation of why you miss Arsehole even more after you've seen your P&M. That "hole in the heart" is something we all share: yes, it is the deficit of love we suffered when small. In his book, "The Compassionate Mind" - which I'm still working through - Paul Gilbert describes how failures of 'attachment' in infancy actually alter the brain's development. Not for the better, you'll be unsurprised to hear. The good news is that we can fix this in later life. "Love your self" is bloody good advice. It's just that we need guidance on how to do that! And you're getting that guidance, at last

I do forgive my mum & dad. I got told off when I tried to explain this before; I'm trying again. I don't mean I Forgive them in any Christ-like, sin-washing sort of way. I mean, very simply, I comprehend that they did what they did because of their own pain. I understand that when my mother says she wants to make amends, she does mean it - her 'amends' are very self-serving, but that's because her own damage renders her incapable of any other sort. I see my family as you might see a dangerous pet. They're the way they are, I can't change them. As long as I protect myself (and handle them adequately), I can enjoy what they have to offer without getting scratched/bitten/eaten.

This is all proving extra difficult for me now, because I'm reviewing my own relationship to them - again. So many of us are going through a comparable process, it's unbelievably helpful to read others' thoughts & feelings and to share my own. I'm confident that I shall achieve a new, sounder level of detach/attach-ment and - along with it, a higher level of self-functioning & balanced emotional strength.

I'd like to quote my wise friend S, who is cursed with a majorly NPD, sexually-abusive, kiddy-fiddling family. She says: "We're like visitors from another planet, where people have better emotional eyesight. There's no point trying to tell the Earthlings what they look like, because they can't see as well as we do!" All you can do is check back with your clear-sighted fellows, now & again, for a laugh. And never, ever be tempted to 'go native' with the blind majority

I did mean to write more specific replies to today's posts. But I've blurted instead. I hope some of what I meant to say has come through?

Rose, yes it should be more widely known! I think it's happening ... might take a few generations, though. Meanwhile, we are the clear(er) sighted aliens.

I literally jumped around the living room for joy, when I saw the news item about kids being taught the meaning of abuse in school! That kind of thinking can, if allowed, wreak tremendous changes in less than one generation. let's hope, eh?

I have been through what I am going through before....almost exactly the same scenario.

BUT: The view of the support services couldn't be more different. Like PM's MW....she's trained to pick up the signs....my nurse practitioner, who knew from what I told her the whole picture almost instantly.

The way my counsellors have been chosen by the mental health team to tailor the help to exactly where it needs to be, firstly to get rid of h, and now to heal from the abuse from my mother.

I am amazed.

It will filter through to the masses in due course. On MN there is a new case of EA almost every day, and it is picked up, recognised and supported brilliantly.

WA, the freedom programme, ss, the police....even the police!!!!

I know that myself and my family are in the system, and it's good, it's working....wish h would join in willingly, he's not bad enough to be dragged kicking and screaming into ppro active help, but who knows what will come.

I've just had a letter from Mum. She says she's horrified that I think she left me alone. She says I must have stored - and misinterpreted - a sense of abandonment from the draconian method of getting a baby to sleep through, which was imposed by midwives in the Fifties. She's got some stuff in there about how Dad couldn't do night feeds, for good measure.

I'm going to have to let her retreat into her comfy denial. I'm angry that this means, undoubtedly, she will spread reinforcing ideas about my 'instability' through the family. I've just guessed why she told me about it - and about how much she hated me, etc - while I was in The Priory. To her mind, I imagine, it was safe (for her) to do it there because I was in a mental hospital ... and therefore mad.

I am mightily pissed off. Very grateful for this thread, where I am believed! Also glad of my recent journal. I binned all my old diaries, including the Priory one, before she hijacked me to her house. But my group and counsellors there heard, and believed, me. In fact, some of them heard her at the time.

Oh, how frustrating. It never bloody stops, does it?!

I am developing a powerful urge to break free again - which is a good thing; I'm just worried that this is exactly what motivated me before! I ended up with crap friends and a breakdown back then. Must take care to apply everything I've been learning ... [sighs wearily]

Hi Grace - I think I too comprehend why my adoptive parents acted in the way they did. They had terribly abusive childhoods and I suspect that my grandmother was never the same after losing a baby at only a few days old. It makes me wonder if she wanted to steal me from my mother and that in some was I was supposed to replace that lost child? It was a boy she lost and she never had another son. It explains why she acted so terribly when I had my ds who amazingly was born on the same day as her ds.

However whilst I understand and at times that brings moments of clarity and lessens my anger towards them because it exempts me. I always knew something was terribly wrong and yet I always thought I was bad in some way. A lot of my anger was directed at myself and my feelings of worthlessness. However by understanding their past and how they behave I finally realised that I am not inherently bad in any way and that anger has subsided. On very rare moments I even feel sorry for them - their lives are a tragic mess.

But forgiveness no. Somehow I have this feeling that whilst we can feel sorry for what are deeply shallow and unloving lives, they get along just fine with this facade. Narcissits seem remarkabley resilient and just switch to and from sources of supply as needed. I get the feeling my GM will bloody outlive the lot of us. It is their lack of feeling and empathy which send shivers down my spine. How can I forgive people who really feel nothing in the true sense? I think I can come to some sort of indifference towards them and at the moment that is the best I can hope for.

It reminds me of the film The Matrix with the baddie who wants to be plugged back into the fake existence run by the machines. Narcissists choose to ignore reality and I think it is a safer place for be for them. Reality is a lot harder isn't it? I mean how nice to live in a fantasy perfect world where everyone around you fits into neat little roles which support your distorted reality. How easy that you never feel remorse, guilt or empathy for those you hurt in your pursuit of perfection.

In that film Keanu Reeves has to choose a blue or red pill. In our lives we have chosen to swallow the pill of reality and that is why we can break free and fight the abuse. It makes me feel spiritual, not because of a belief in God but a belief in the power of humans to survive. Those who are not survivors are those who shut down and retreat behind a wall of narcissism and lose the ability to love properly. They were once very hurt and abused children as I believe no one is born bad but they swallowed the wrong pill and it has damaged them and taken away their humanity

< It makes me feel spiritual >
I really like that, Rose I'm going to cling to it for a while!

Nice to see another Matrix fan

I must watch the Matrix.

Somewhere up the thread someone mentioned about the smaller things being the worst.

I have remembered today so many of those small things.

I only had my family back in my life for about 18 months. I remembered today that even on the first "social event", the pecking started. I was too thin, and then too fat, haircut was what made me look too thin. I looked unwell, etc, etc. I looked at pictures from that day and I look just fine.

The day that my life fell apart last summer....ds's birthday, I was told that I was fat and spotty.

"what size is that dress?

"ten"

you're joking it must be at least a fourteen or sixteen, oh and are you pre menstrual, your skin looks terrible".

In my own garden whilst catering to their needs. I was later told that I have a persecution complex. Is it a complex when you are being persecuted? My Bil said I have a personality disorder. I have spent less than 48 hours in his company, and do not know his birthday or middle name....nor he mine! And yet as an oil rig worker he has this amazing psychological insight into me!!!! Sorry, getting sarcastic...hard not to!

But the point is that it was just chit chat. But my refusal to accept it...being told I was over reacting has caused utter chaos and meltdown for my dc's and me.

I want it to be REAL...not fake, that the kids can already see through.

Anyway. I crossed a bridge today.

Ds wanted to go to the Tate, and dd is at h's overnight.So this was my first trip into his home city since we split. Very hard. I packed it in though....I bought fish and chips from the chippy where.....well...doesn't matter. And you can see across the bay to where he is now with our beautiful dd. I went back to places that I knew would be hard to deal with, because next time won't be quite so hard.

Im going to start with an apology. I never drink and Im on my second glass of wine so feeling a bit - more open than normal.

The reason Im posting is a comment the OP made. The last time I did get drunk with a very dear friend (is that a df?) who experienced sexual abuse as a child I sat saying, I shouldnt complain, what I went through was nothing compared to you. Almost identical to what I read!

I was raised by very controlling fundamentalist Christian parents who ruled everything was bad. Im intelligent and I did very well at school and I was expected to go on to university but I was forced to leave at 16 because it was above me, especially as a girl, to want to educate myself, and also made me part of a "world" which was anti-gods will.

Im fortunate to be pigheaded and eventually get out at 21 and meet my dh shortly after, who for all that I could choke him half the time has always loved me for being me and has fixed me to a huge extent (I function well on the surface). I still struggle with any type of deep relationship apart from him, df I mentioned earlier is the closest and she tells me I trust noone (true).

When I had dd1 I tried to give her a close relationship with grandparents but my mother undermined me continually with everything from feeding to routines to clothing (she did all the buy a buggy and car seat and feed what she thought). When I had dd2 prematurely she phoned me up in a state when she was 2 weeks old saying, I know youre keeping something from me, is there something wrong with the baby? What are you not telling me?

Everything has to be about her...I persist in trying to keep a relationship of some sort, partly as an only child I feel bad, and shes an old lady, I pity her. when I moved out her and my dad both said youll be back in few weeks, he laughed at the thought of me surviving! I thought the point of kids was to raise fully functioning adult humans in the long term...

She no longer babysits as I left dds to go to an afternoon show about a year ago, dd1 had a temp and was unwell but I thought, shes very good with small children, she will be fine. I forgot what shes not good is listening to me - I was gone 6 hours and got back to find she had given her no medicine as she couldnt remember when I said she had some and didnt bother to phone to check - dd was burning up and in discomfort.

I am FULL of guilt and resentment - and I never feel anythign I do, work, home, etc is good enough - I have a management job, 3 seperate degrees, am a phd student, 11 years married, 2 lovely kids, and she still comments on my weight (Im a size 14, not massive) and also she couldnt tell you what I do for a living....

I am sorry - I go on - she used to slap me when OTHER children misbehaved you know. Is it me????? Should I have got over this by now????

rhondajean - I can categorically state that it is not you. Your parents sound very controlling, narcissistic and abusive. Your low self esteem and luck of trust is due to the abuse you suffered. Keep posting here as you will find validation and support from people who also suffered abuse. I feel that whilst every case is individual and every survivor has survived in their own way, there does seem to be some very clear patterns in how abuse is carried out and the effect it has on children and into adulthood

Through posting here and also seeking counselling my whole life makes much more sense. You can start the process of healing and whilst it is so hard at times, it is possible to heal and see the truth

Hello, rhondajean No, of course it's not you ... and how, do you suppose, are you meant to "just get over" your own childhood? It's shocking how many atrocities are committed, in the 'sanctity' of the home, by so-called godfearing families. They seem to have taken the 'fearing' part fully on board, but chosen to ignore god - unless you know of a scripture that says "Honour your father & mother, but teach your children they are worthless?"

Your mum sounds like an absolute nightmare - and a classic Narcissistic mother. If you haven't read much about the condition before, you might also want to take a look here.

Do post back: the simple act of writing can be very helpful.

Bagofrefreshers It seems to me as if you are making a change by recognising how you badly you were treated and not wanting to parent your DD in the same way.
I didn't have much of an example either but I just strive to never make my DC's feel the way my mother did and to always let them know how much I love them.......something I was never told or shown.

It would be a shame if you didn't post here again, I liked reading your posts. Good luck with the baby xx

hahaimawitch I too am deviating from the script at the moment. Last night I had a barrage of phone calls from my mother. My home phone would ring, then my mobile this went on for a couple of hours because I wouldn't answer the phone, she even started using my step-dad's mobile phone as if that would make me more likely to pick up......I was actually in the bath trying to relax and DH and DC's were happily all upstairs too building Lego. It was getting late too and I won't answer the phone to her after a certain time as I know she'll have been drinking and I am not prepared to ruin my evening with her one-sided selfish conversation for well over an hour at a time.

I sometimes wonder why I let myself be sucked back into the script, maybe it's to have an easier life although it always manages to be the hardest thing to do.

prettylegs I hope you get to realising who the "real you" is soon. All I know about the "real me" is that I put on an act and make out that I'm really confident and strong willed but really deep down I am shy and have no self confidence.

Has your DH ever seen anyone for his troubles? My DH had a pretty tough time with work last year too, took pay cut after pay cut, his hours were halved whilst they treated him appallingly and proceeded to take on more staff. He left after feeling he was being forced out and works for himself now. Things haven't quite gone to plan and lots of work he was promised from people we know well didn't materialise and we have struggled ever since. Things came to a head for him at Christmas (he also has other issues like toxic parents) and he had a breakdown. He's on AD's now but he's very hard to cope with at times.
My DH also yo-yo diets. He's never been obese but he does go painfully thin at times when he's on a whim of say only eating cereal for weeks, then piles the weight back on when he starts eating normally again.

Grace thank you, thank you, thank you for posting that link about a 'classic Narcissistic mother'. It's the best thing I've ever read in relation to Narcissism and my mother.

Practically everything it said I could link to my mother and there were a couple of surprises too...."She Parentifies":

I never had birthday parties.....was told that people were too busy at the time of year my birthday is so wouldn't be able to bring their children.

I was never allowed to have friends over....the one time I did, I hadn't tidied my room adequately so in one foul swoop she pushed everthing from shelves, my desk etc onto the floor and I had to tidy it all up to perfection.

She never gave me a lift anywhere......just point blank refused. I had to catch the very infrequent bus in which I had to walk a mile to the bus stop come rain or shine, light or pitch black. We lived in a very rural village and all my friends lived in the town where we went to school or very close by. This meant I missed out on lots of social events growing up and always felt like the outsider in our group of friends.

I had to buy my own clothes from the age of 14 as I had a weekend job earning £2 per hour, citing the "as your working now..."

Gosh I could go on and on. I truly thought that this was "normal" although I guess as a teenager I did know that this wasn't how my friends had it but it was "normal" for me.

I just wish I could have kept this anger I have for my mother locked away for just a little bit longer. I guess it has all resurfaced again because of my pregnancy hormones and how she has treated me during this pregnancy. She speaks to me as if I am a piece of dirt on her shoe and I'm fed up with it.

It's going to be hard not to fall out with her before this baby is born. Part of me doesn't want me to because in a way falling out with her will be playing straight into her hands.....she can play the victim which will get her even more attention than just playing the doting grandmother of a newborn.

The other part of me wants to fall out with her so then I can say all of the things I have got bottled up and get them off my chest and then I won't have to put up with her and overbearing, patronising, critical ways whilst I have a newborn to contend with. I also won't have to watch her 'playing' the oh so caring mother and grandmother.

I suppose I do love my mother but I also bloody hate her at the same time. Does that make any sense?

Hello RJ.

It seems to me that you have achieved a huge amount in your life. How much more do you think you will have to achieve to gain their approval?

My mother, when I rang from hospital having my first MC said...that's far too far for me to drive, people have miscarriages every day. The other people in the office she was in were so shocked at her response she did come down to see me. She didn't stay very long. From south manchester to Stoke...not THAT far.

She babysat my ds once. I got back to find him not tucked in, curtains open and the ceiling light on. She clearly had sent him up to sort himself out and hadn't bothered to check him. He was 5.

The problem is, that these things on their own are not huge, she didn't batter anyone, but over time and as a constant pattern, they are massively damaging.

Don't under estimate what has been done to you, and get alll the help that is available.

This thread can be a bit overwhelming at times, as the revelations can come thick and fast! It is incredibly helpful though...keep posting.

Mampam...I write songs....I wrote a song when I was 14 about my mother.

So hard to go on
You're just another
just a person
but you're my mother

I love you
I hate you
Please leave me be
No don't go.

Forgive the teenager ness of it...but I knew then, decades ago.

So yes. I understand completely.

My husband refuses point blank that there is anything wrong with him. He told me he'd been to the gp and the gp had told him that he was fine, but that I was mad. That obviously is an out and out lie. He is a bright man, but clearly, if he thinks for one moment that anyone would believe that, he is in a very dark place indeed. There is nothing anyone can do for him untill he seeks hel. He is not bad enough to be sectioned. It's desperately sad.

I have no contact whatever with her now. I got tons of phone calls, so have had BT block her numbers.