'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Dear me, mh, what a tragic picture your family make You've done well to come out of that such a sane and loving person!!

I used to use the word "trick" for that, as well! I believe it was because the concept of training with kindness was alien to me. Just like yours, my dad spoke of "training" children, not bringing them up - and his methods of training were based on fear & punishment. When I discovered you can do it just as well with treats, it seemed like magic! So ... a magic trick

I did an exercise, today, with a picture of myself as a child and the words "care", "concern" and "compassion". The child I was seemed very cynical about those words - a pity to feel such harshness in a little girl (especially when that girl was me!) Thinking through her, I reminded her of the people who did show her care & concern, and were compassionate to her: my Granny; a teacher named Mrs Smallwood; a lady we met on holiday. It was reassuring to feel that she did know compassion, after all. The cynicism was what my parents taught her, but all the same she felt the warmth of adults who knew how to care.

I need a hug, too, mh, so I'm sending you some nice big ones and taking some from you
xx

Hugs to grace and mh....

I had Mrs Robertson, my English teacher. She was so fab, she would check if I was wearing a vest, and give me minadex. She even told my parents off one parents evening. She thought at the time they were crap...but never had to actually SAY as much to me. I loved her.

I am confused by my h. He has not only asked for a referral to mh services via the GP, but is starting private counselling this Saturday. I have said that I do not , under any circumstances, want my children anywhere near my mother. Even though he says he accepts that, he still thinks that it is sad that they don't have contact. He just doesn't get it. Although he acknowledges that I am much further on through this process.

He still is incandescant at my labelling him as abusive.

What am I saying? I don't know. I hope that the therapy picks up on the real issues...his gp notes are flagged, even though he has changed practice, that should still remain in place.

I am learning slowly what is acceptable treatment of me, and what isn't. The lack of acknowledgement of what my mother has done to me, has made me feel that horrid sick feeling, that having your soul ripped out AGAIN feeling.

I know that I am doing the right thing...and coming here helps me to know that. My therapy is teaching me that she is a very, very poorly woman. And the impact on the whole of my life has bee devastating.

I wore heels on the school run....innerchild thinks it's very naughty, but very good fun to do that, playing dress-up. She must be heard!

oh dear, I have been getting the dog used to times alone, and just went in to see, she had ripped the bin bag and there is rubbish everywhere, so I ignored it took her aside and gave attention, at the end of the day it is my fault for leaving her bored and it was boredom that got her to do that, she is now by my feet after some attention giving!

Grace, it is nice of you to say I am a loving and sane person, I used to feel as if I was, I don't anymore, the uglyness in me came out so much due to all the stuff ex husband did, the lies the injustices etc, I was so angry, it was like every bit of anger that had been welling inside me my whole life came out over those few years, when i think of some of that stuff now i am so dammed sad, I think I am getting to the point I will never get over it and will just accept it was part of my life, I would love to blank it out as if it never happened! no one can understand, no one wants to, they have no idea!

It is interesting what you are saying about magic trick's yourself, training children, I supposed in my family it was a case of children being raised by children, there was little parenting, it was all anger at not having done the right thing or having said the right thing, I think that was why my justic in life was related to me being such a strong rule follower, if I knew the rules it meant less likely I would be attacked, if I follow the rules, justice and things wil be ok, I think that when ex did not follow the rules and got away with stuff, it was so upsetting for me!

Your exercise sounds interesting, CARE, CONCERN and COMPASSION... I am now cynical as apposed to nieve, I am working on being somewhere inbetween, it is not easy for children to have this view, I wish I had sorted this stuff out when they were younger, it is so hard for them...

Grace, you are given back hugs and hugs and hugs, and I am taking yours with lots of love too!

What did you get in the end from the picture Grace? What do you do with work like that when it is finished Grace? What are you up to today?

I know that people do care in general, it is a case of getting them to lock into caring about us, finding the key's and keep trying different one's... I think of all those people who have so many people care about them, how have they achieved so many people to adore them so much, it is the type's of friends they make, I think of the most popular people I have known in life and they fall into two camps, one is the bitchy controlling person, and the other is just a fabulous person with boundaries, I want to be the latter, not for what it brings in the case of being liked, but for the case of liking myself and the way I lead my life...

oh the naughty heals thing sounds good x

TIHIF, wow you have come on leaps and bounds, well done, your boundaries sound like they are working so well for you.

Your english teacher raised a flag for you all those years ago, it sounds like it helps your innervoice now? What a lovely gift she gave you!

hugs to you too also today tihif x

Can i pile in for a hug as well god knows i need one right now. Any port in a storm I feel so low right now.

mummieH, i am so thrilled for you you have a dog. You will get unconditional love from a dog day and night. Ex took the dog back to his parents, the house feels ever so empty, there is no one here to love me and I need it so much right now. I started crying when I read about your dogs in the shed. Greyhounds have such gentle nature and such sweet faces I don't know how anyone could,i try and get my head around it but I just cant understand it, I agree this sounds so horrific to witness this.

I told ex I was thinking about getting a new one from dogs trust, I just keep looking at the pictures of the dogs on there and i want to just cuddle them all. He was hurt as he sees us all being back together again one day me, him and the dog. The dog means everything to me, I have never felt love like it, no matter what I do she loves me, and when I cry or am sad she licks the back of my hand or sometimes even the tears off my face.

My dad never allowed us to have pets saying 'we cant even look after ourselves' what he meant was he didnt want a defenceless little animal draining him or being dependent on him. im glad we didn't as I don't think he would have looked after it properly and would have probably punished us for "being soft" the irony is that when the dog visits he seems to adore her, spoiling her rotten cuddling her.

I am so interested about what you say about doing illegal things. I am asked to do illegal things at work, it is causing me immense turmoil and has led to a lot of self hatred. I am not this person who is nasty I am NOT, but if it walks like a duck..... but it has made me this way because I am so weak I cant say no,although I have tried I have been mocked by my employer,I totally hate myself for this.

sorry for dumping from 1foot

1 foot, that is where the counselling and boundaries comes in, learing how to handle such situations, when you feel better inside and have had a bit of practice you can work out how to stnad up to people, some can do it with people already in their lives, others such as I have to start again with new people, it is too hard a challenge for them!

What you say about dogs, I wonder why you don't just go and get a dog if that is what you and a dog need right now? I wonder what is actually stopping you? I have not read up back posts, too busy right now, so if there is an obvious reason forgive me x

I think father who grew up in a farm thought of amimals as just being there to serve humans's needs, I was scared as hell of it, jumping all over the place and barking when I went near it as a child, poor thing needed attention, I did not realise that at that age, I think I spend most of my childhood in a state of fear!

Well now I can share some of last night... I got achillies tendonitis from too much dog walking at the weekend, I had not realised that during the extended ashcloud holiday and the excessive walking I had done there, I had started it off and have recently made it worse, I am used to pain have a medical condition so did not know! Told to rest, feel scared and out of control, got a scooter last night and it was emotional. What made me stressed more is I was given instructions by man, kids and dogs got excited and kids were making huge drama with it all, i suppose it was emotional for them and they were back to toodler emotions and not thinking, stayed calm at first, but straw before the break was dd running along behind me on scooter, I was so upset along the road where we live with dog and I was embarrised as it was, and then when I got here, opeend garage and she had wrecked it and lost keys and all sorts and it was a wreck again, I could not get scooter in and had to move stuff and it was wrecked and everywhere and I was in pain and staw that broke camels back and snapped at her, man told me I was harsh on her, and then lectured me about my weight and I was a small child again, crying my eye's out all night over so many things, getting upset now going to go for a bit x x x

hugs to you too 1food, and love to all x

terrible typos' apologies x

when you are disabled you are vouneralbe and not ok for some people, and I loved being not ok and pitied and i hate it now, I am ok and i hate people treating me like I am not ok now and I fell for it with that man last night and i now realise that part of it was allowing myself to be a small child again and letting him talk to me like that, he was right I did snap at dd, he was not right about lecturing me about my weight though!

mummiehunnie- No he wasn't right about mentioning your weight, where do people get off like that, makes me

I am not sure about the dog because if we might get back together then its not right for a rescue dog to have another dominant dog, it might be hard for them to cope with? could end up with 2 upset dogs because of "what i wanted"

I also don't know where i might live, everything is in the air at the moment, might have to move form where I am now, not sure where to, stay in this city, stay in this country? I just don't know - I don't feel like i fit anywhere at the moment.

from 1foot

My therapist said on Monday that I may have a "reaction". I think I am having it now. Overnight and this morning I feel very helpless and hopeless, that life is pointless, it's all been ruined by my mother and it's now too late. I will always be damaged, therapy doesn't work, and I will always be abused. I don't know if I am not a controlling abuser myself now.

I have had two offers of help getting things going workwise and neither if them rang when they said they would, so now I feel paranoid...has someone said, don't go near her, she's mad? They were right I am so horrible, no one wants to know me, I'm never allowed in the "gang". That's why my h hates me. That's why my mum didn't want me. I wish I'd been aborted.

Morning all, more hugs and kisses from me today to you all x x x

I feel a bit stressed, my general mood is a bit more upbeat this morning, so much on, arrrggghhh how am I going to do it all, will post later if I have time x

ifoot, I totally understand your reasons, you make perfect sense in waiting for your home situation to settle first x Is fostering an option for the mean time?

Sometimes life has to fit in with us, rather than us fit in with it, I know that I was far too adapt at fitting in with others and now it is time for me to do my thing, you will fit things into your life ifoot that suit you x

tihif, yes that scarrying being back to a child thing is normally, and yes I have worried about being an abuser and controlling myself, I think we all have that in us to an element, that is part of the challenge learning what is normal behaviour, although I imagine that you like many on here are more adapted child, if that is making sense to you?

tihif, I don't think you are the first or the last to think the way you were in your last paragraph, I wonder if your therapist has taken enough care of you, I do think that you should trust our gut and if this therapist is the one for you, I tell you this as I had a bad reaction not long ago to one, I have seen counsellor a year ago and had no reaction like that severe, and I had family therapy for about two years and no bad reaction like that, she advised me and did gp that to have a severe reaction means the therapist is perhaps not working at your speed, it is down to you to work out if the various ways forward that are options for you will work for you.

Good morning to everyone today

TIHIF- " have had two offers of help getting things going workwise and neither if them rang when they said they would, so now I feel paranoid"

this is a trap i find myself in all the time, its as if people dangle help like a carrot of help and when i want it it seems as if it was never there, and im chasing a shadow, feeling confused and stupid. I dont know about your work, could you ask again? I know some therapist somewhere would call it "naming your needs" or "owning" them. If not sorry if this is insensitive. I should take my own advice that is for sure. I dont even know what my needs are right now, "owning them" seems like something would apply to other people.

I haven't really spoken to anyone for over a week apart from to take some advice about a job, to my therapist or to talk to medical receptionists. I wonder whether i even have a voice now or what it would say. The only thing I can say is "im sorry".

thank you mummie i will look into fostering and let you know what I find out. I am now starting to wonder whether it is selfish of me to want a dog to be with as I want the love and company for "my own ends"

All this thinking is paralysing.

love from 1foot

I think that I must grieve for my childhood, and the adult that was abused by her. I think tat it is part of the heaing,to really grieve. And now I know what am grieving. I really was that bad.

I went back to bed after the school run and cried until I slept.

Funny, I never thought I had any business being on this thread. I know that that is common. But I have every right. That woman has caused terrible damage, not just to me, but my sisters and neices too. It's just that they havent see it yet. Nice place, denial,if you can avoid all the elephant poo.

I know that I should just ask again, there are probaly very good reasons why they haven't got back to me. Maybe I should start again, and pay to have things done for me. Maybe I deserve that?

I think that loving a dog for your own needs is still loving!

I need a new keyboard...this ne is riving me nut

< Nice place, denial,if you can avoid all the elephant poo. >

thisis, as you're so funny when you're down, I reckon you should start a new career in comedy when you're back up! Thank you!

Yes, phone the people. All very well for me to say: she who's still mustering the courage to ring friends - but write yourself a little script if you need to. All these things add up to taking charge of your life again. I'm still pretty much a candle in the wind, too, but I am going to be a blazing beacon - and so are you.

Let yourself cry. Eat chocolate cake. Have a hug. xxx

hugs to you all, read your posts, don't have much time, needed to sit down in amongst kids drop off, buy milk, bring dog to vet, tidy and clean for emergency viewer who is despirate to buy this house and has sold there, oh please I know you are ill just do this viewing, dammm me I said yes.... and then got to go and get car and bring hire one back, after school pick up, and all with kid who is ill, and my legs have gone back to as stiff and painfull as they were to begin with, and the day is not over yet!

Amongst this cleaner I had booked cancelled, long story, mistake made by lady at agency, and mother rang, and had a chat with her, was cut short by estate agent who is taking over from other who wanted to take photo of front of house....

take care girls, and it is not selfish to have a dog, they need homes in rescue centres! good for you in so many ways to have a dog, even to foster right now till your life is settled, better than in kennels for dog!

hi, I just want to offload really, feeling really sad about the conversation with my mother this morning, I kind of feel sorry for her in one bit and the other bit of me thinks you know, you are in denial, you won't listen!

She came out with the you have changed stuff, complaining that she wants me to hug her and hear that I love her, I said you just want me to forfill your needs, I am not here for that,then she was moaning about me again, and I said you are using me as a vessell to dump again, then she went livid blaming the family therapist, who never told me my family were abusive at all... and on and on it went, she said I did this that the other for you, I said, I am not taking the guilt you are trying to offload on the vessell of x my name, and I said if you chose to go and do something that I did not ask for then that is not something I should be made to feel guilty for. Then she went on about how she was a good person, I told her that god had it all down on record, she then went on about all the good things she does!

I can't be doing with this right now! She won't go and get therapy, she won't take responsibility and she wants me back to how I was I won't do it!

She was quite pittyfull really, she just won't see what did or take responsibility for anything!

Then the stuff about my bro and niece she saw abaroad, he wants me to meet her apparently, I said I have no interest, the child will be used to hurt me, there will be a secret that will accidently on purpose drop out, an atmosphere, control, someone else will have met her before me to spite me! I know how it goes!

I said the kids can meet the baby, I will never meet the baby. I don't want anything to do with any of them unless they sort things out, I know they won't so what is the point? They will just hurt me more and I can't carry on putting energy into that family, I want to make a new happy life free of being used and abused!

Right am off to cry when I sort out my bedroom that was wrecked by the kids, ready for the viewing!

take care all x

ThisishowIfeel-It is hard. I hope you can get through ok. Live on for and with yourself, screw the turkeys. Try a bit of aerobic exercise to get your heart pumping and lungs working hard to really feel feel alive. Push ups (yeah, the girly kind with my knees on the floor) are me pushing away all those crappy people in my life.

I have wondered why my mother had children at all. In fact, my folks had to adopt because they couldn't conceive, then had 2 (I'm the youngest). I think she did it just to fit into the sahm role (early 1960's). Kids as props, fck me- another piece of the puzzle right there. How* ironic: that was my self-image description: a props person living between acts of a play dressed in black not seen or heard, but evidence of changes were noticed, but never recognized.

Elephant poo indeed. So desensitised to it. Then I thought (too late) maybe I shouldn't have had children...glad I did, they have helped me heal.

Screw the turkeys, and shoo the elephants to go crap somewhere else.

Hi Grace,
I printed out your list of tools. Thanks so much, you have given me a great deal of help indeed. I love the idea of carrying around a tool box. I probably need to drive a whole truck full of tools. Or! It will be a slow transition, but maybe my freight train of emotional crap will be transformed into a train of tools to deal and heal from it all.

The counting to ten concept is so valuable. I don't actually count, but I know I need to pause, sometimes, and let my brain function, iykwim. Down reflexes! and think...and give a positive attitude a chance. I am learning that if a positive attitude doesn't work then it is probably time to walk away, or at least shields up . Sometimes it does feel like 'acting' and a superficial performance (cue fingernails on chalkboard) which I loath...must be a trigger somewhere in there. But I must say it works and I often walk away with a 'well, that actually went well' sort of feeling.

Munhun-well done on manifesting your backbone. Stay the course!
I hope the showing went well. That is true stress. Good luck.

Thanks, stuffed, it's lovely to know my invisible toolbox is helpful to someone else!

I just deleted a long paragraph, in which I worried about being abusive towards my mum. Because, you know what? I'm not! I'm polite, considerate and detached. Hurrah!!!
Bloody hell, my magic scissors must be working

Grace,
If (big IF) you were abusive, she deserved it. End of.

But that is an important milestone. To be able to say what you mean, that which the other person will find uncomfortable and you know it will make them uncomfortable, but to still be able to say it while being civil and intelligent and staying in 'adult mode'. Well done. The holy grail of detachment! Have a good weekend, Grace.

(So much for my 'end of' bravado....)

Good afternoon all!

Grace, what are you going to do with the breadbin?

No news on viewing, so I imagine that was a waste of time, hey ho!

Miserable weather here today, and not able to walk much, would love to go and see sex and the city, thing is I can't leave kids and it is probably not appropriate for them!

I loved when I had girlie mates and we went out and spent time on girlie thing, going out, clothes all self indulgent in my teens and early twenties before kids, some of those friends were messed up and some were ok! Seems like a life time ago! When I was single again after ex, the single mum's I met all seemed to have problems, one problem person would introduce you to another problem person etc, hey ho, better off without them I know, just missing it all, slowly making new healthy friends though taking time, which is better as I rush into frienships and made mistakes in past!

grace, sorry not breadbin, I mean breadmaker, that and typo's, oh the shame!

lol and thanks, you two.
Haven't decided yet whether to clean up the breadmaker of just dump it. Oh, look, I have decided! Dump it is

go girl!