'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Oh, thisis, I so know that exercise! The first time I did it (it was 15, but same thing) was in one-to-one counselling. I took the task home and it took me THREE WEEKS to complete it! Full time

I've since done it in group, in various forms. I've become quite good at poking people to think of, at least, some of their admirable qualities. People often end up dissolving in tears. Isn't it sad, and awful, that we become so distanced from our own assets? Well done on doing yours

I keep my list on the wall of my stairs. I update it, by hand, whenever I notice a new one. I don't care who sees it!!

Super-congratulations on staying Adult this weekend. Well done, smarty! How did you feel about it, this morning?

mampam, whenever you see this - welcome to your new baby, and to a fresh & better life for you all. xxx

Good luck mampam,thinking of you and your new babyxx

Hi Grace, Diving, Mampan,
Reading the past few days' posts has helped me very much. Thank you.

Good for you for going to the bbq, Grace, and I'm glad it went better than expected.

A while back, I believe (maybe on another thread) you wrote about the difficulties of just talking to people. Me too. I am reading "How to Talk so People Will Listen" by Steve Brown. I'm only about halfway through it, but it has some good logic and tips. I know I will never be a great conversationalist...but...well, there is that negative thinking again.

Had a conversation with dh recently (two weeks ago) about my circumstances and I told him I felt I was in a cycle of getting out making contact with people just to say something stupid or be the target of rudeness that all ends up as additional recommendations of solitude-like I've been right all along. Then, I cried. My silent rivers of tears, but then the damn sinuses overflow and I give myself away. He is very caring and said he didn't mean to/want to upset me. My ending feeling was a shrug, it'll never change. I am such a misfit.

And grief, me too. I think you recently said you were two or two & a half years into this process. I first posted on Stately Homes in Oct '07 although I knew I had to distance myself
(I almost typed it my self !!)
from my middle sister a year before that. But actually, acknowledging a feeling here: I had the feeling to detach off and on for years, decades even.

There is no fucking way on this earth(wheeeee-anger)
that I would have had a fair chance to be successful in my chosen career (architecture) because of the emotional damage my mother did to me as a child and as Middle Sister did continuing to carry the flag for mother after she died. My lost potential; no matter graduating with a masters degree with honors and passing state license exams...sigh. Acute disappointment at my failure? It took ages for me to see/admit it was absolute failure. But only recently I have come to realize the source; it wasn't my fault really.

The seeds for my chances were never planted by my parents. But it is deeper than that. Anytime I said anything, I was ridiculed and dismissed. I learned to be silent. I learned it was safer to not participate in conversation.

It was the same with my feelings. Degradations, disrespect, no value. I learned it was safer to never express feelings-which eroded into never have feelings. Keep an even keel, I thought was a virtue. Take no for an answer, I thought was being mature. I'm a fool's fool.

Then the codependent enmeshment of self- sabotage. I know the painful interaction is coming, so I might as well set it up so it can be on my terms and if I sacrifice my bit voluntairly then maybe they won't thrash me to bits. If I have had the courage to speak, I follow it up with, "Well, you don't have to take my word for it." Let's just give people permission to dismiss me and be up front about it.

I am ignored, then it turns out what I said was the most accurate answer...am I there to say "I told you so"? Of course not. I only receive EA, I don't dish it out. That is childhood training: Middle Sister could dish it out but never take it, so I was always the one punished if I said anything in self-defense.

If you've read through this, thank you. Presently, I am working getting Middle Sister's name out of my brain. It pops in so often!!! I just say, "NO, middle sister" and that is how it goes round and round-but she is still there. I am going to try to substitute an object for her name. But that isn't dealing with it is it? So perhaps I do need to think about all the crap-perhaps more discovery is in store for my weary soul.

Take care, Grace, I'm on your team and I care how you are, and no, I don't know how long it takes, but I'm not turning back now.

Hello everyone

I hope you dont mind me saying hello and possibly contributing to this conversation?

I am new to MN, not yet a mum but Id like to be so thats why I stumbled accross this forum.

I'll be frank, my life is a total mess. My partner ( fiancee) and I are on a break, possibly splitting up, the way I have behaved recently is pure toxic and I have become a hateful person.

I started my therapy yesterday , I did not feel very brave at all but something was suggested that im renacting some previous situation from my childhood, it didnt make sense at all. However, I read so much of what you have all written and there were a lot of pennies dropping for me last night and today as I have been reading through this and other information on the internet.

I feel total shame that i have allowed myself to get so out of control.

Anyway, things are very raw for me at the moment so I dont know if i have much else to add at the moment I am just about managing to breathe.

I just wanted to say how wise and wonderful your contributions and how strong you all come over, and that has made me consider joining in so I wanted to say thank you.

from 1foot

Helo 1foot Congratulations on the pennies dropping - it's a peculiar feeling, isn't it? Please don't judge yourself: shame is the enemy of good health. I bet you're going to find that your 'shame' is actually a little present from your family, who should have cared for you properly instead of blaming you.

Thank you for your lovely & thoughtful post, bears! You seem to be 'working' very hard at the moment; I hope you're remembering to treat yourself gently. Good to see some real anger there

I suspect you're right about Middle Sister sticking ever more tightly in your brain, the more you tell her to get out. Have you ever seen that Fawlty Towers (John Cleese) episode, where some Germans come to stay and he runs around yelling "Don't mention the war!" Of course, no-one can stop mentioning it after all that. In meditation, you learn to mildly observe a thought (as if it were a passing cloud or similar), and just gently bat it away. The ideal mindset is one of amused tolerance ... "well, well, it's that thought again ..." and waft it away.

Dunno if that's any help?

Hello 1foot.

You are wise and wonderful for having the insight to notice those dropping pennies!

It is scary, but worth it. This place is so very good.

Grace funny to mention John Cleese. He was speaking to Robyn Skinner on the radio, when my first penny dropped.

h has started to see a counsellor. I am pleased that he has acknowledged that help is needed. I don't know any more than that at the moment.

Thank you for your generous welcomes. They are very gratefully recieved at the moment. I really do feel so fragile.

I hope in some way when Im more ordered my tumbling thoughts might be of interest to someone, or even help in some way.

I note many of you ar trying to deal with Narcissistic parents. I have read these links and they dont really apply to my situation altho I am ashamed to say some of the traits I have displayed myself

I am now coming to realise that I am living in a way that is fearful ( there i said it) would anyone have any links that I can look at to see if I can learn more?

I feel like the biggest can of worms has been opened ever and i have no clue if i can ever get comfortable with it....

thank you 1foot

Everybody has narcissistic traits, 1foot - some of us don't even have enough!! what do you mean when you say 'fearful'?

Deep breath Ok

My dad had anger issues. The rage.He used to shout and really lose it-totally lose it. I cant always remember what was said or what it was about as I seemed to just blank it out. I was always scared of him. He did do that "weve given up everything for you" routine as well.I always replied "I never asked to be born!"

He was controlling, I am only just uncovering this now. I know he never approved of many of the things that I did, and I would often be scared of his reaction to things, I became furtive, a liar, or defensively aggressive. Although I brazened it out for a while with the i dont care attitude, ultimately, I did, I still do.

I cant bear violent films for example or a glimpse of boxing on tv makes me feel really anxious. I have never played any violent computer games, never would, am scared by people who do - sometimes I even get scared seeing an advert for them, even a poster.

I prided myself on never having arguments throughout my life but recently I have turned into my dad and lost my temper ( I didnt even know i had one) all the time. Throwing things, saying terrible things, the self hatred is apparent in every breath i take. I am scared of being controlled and scared of how i am reacting to lots of things in life. Maybe these are the "triggers" making me feel very scared and I lash out, verbally, physically. Sometimes I dont even know how these episodes start.

I know my partner is also very fearful, and to a degree has controlled my behaviour. It is very hard for me to judge him as I know he had a dysfuctional childhood too that he is to his credit addressing.

Im wondering whether what is happening is that I am reacting to his restrictions in the same way I reacted to my dad. That my partner who i thought was the polar opposite of my dad has the same worst traits and im scared of that. I know my partner will be devastated when he comes to understand this in due course. Some of the controlling things he has said he doesnt remember and is horrified. We are on a break at the moment

Sorry thats quite a lot, I fear if I start writing i might not ever stop.

thank you for listening from 1foot

Hello.
Sorry to jump in.
I have not posted for such a long time.

I hope everyone is doing ok. I have been concentrating on getting on with real life, with some success and some setbacks.

I have stood up to my parents, and I will not be contacting them again until maybe in the autumn, and I think this is a positive step but a difficult one.

Just under a year and a half ago when I started dealing with all this I felt that my life had never been my own and that it was over, wasted, and I planned my own death every morning in order to comfort myself with the idea that I just had to exist today and it would be over soon. I had gone on like this for decades, but once I became a mother I felt conflicted because I was now trapped, I could not escape myself because my children would be broken by it and so my anxiety grew to such a point that I thought my head would explode.

I want to thank this thread and the people on it for setting me on the road to starting my life, properly this time. I have a long way to go but things are soo much better.

Thank you.
Love and hugs to all.xxx

grace shame is the enemy of good health. That is genius, I shall remember that.

Have had a truly terrible day. I sent a text message to my best friend last week about my Dad's sexual abuse, my sister denying it and insisting her children were not at risk and I was worried. I sent it to the number I had stored on my mobile, didn't hear back until I got a call at lunchtime from a complete stranger saying I had sent it to her. My friend had upgraded and changed her number, I hadn't changed my address book.

We had a bit of a gallows humour laugh about it. But then I got a call from the police in Merseyside today. My text was inadvertently sent to a schoolgirl on the Wirral. She showed her teacher who passed it on as a child safeguarding issue to the police. My local police are calling me tomorrow to start an investigation.

And my first thought? My sister's going to kill me, she will be so angry at me for messing things up. This is my sister who I told about the abuse and she e-mailed back saying she didn't believe me (nor about the DV I experienced at the hands of my abusive ex). She thinks I am a fantasist who needs psychiatric help.

Fuck.

Thank you Grace. Wonderful imagery, I will try it.

Tie her to a balloon and let her drift away...forever. But I know it won't be forever...buy more balloons, silly.

Who was it that used the shield of blue glowing light as a personal/emotional boundary? I think I need that too, to just block her.

Hello 1 Foot.
It sounds like you are well on your way to figuring alot of things out. I think this phase is called 'discovery'. Not pleasant. I am sorry you were emotionally abused when you were little.

I think you are right to take a break from your relationship. You are listening to your gut feeling, right? Hold on to that, trust it.

That you never had arguments in your life (before now) was probably childhood training/brainwashing from your enraged father. The 'crisis' now might represent a fork in the road: be an active participant in your life (express your feelings) or the other way is permanent dormancy: serious depression. Perhaps the trigger was the reality of marrying a controlling man.

"Congratulate yourself on your escape" might seem a superficial thing to say and I don't want the comment to seem dismissive of the pain you are feeling from the break up either. But still, your awareness and intelligence have raised the red flags and rang the alarm bells. I am glad for you that you (or even if it was your partner that initiated the separation)acted on it.

Pinky-my family has saved my life soooo many times. Just wanted to let you know that I know what you mean. I've been just a pulse beat away from not existing (my invisibility) for so long. I'm pretty much past that now, though. I had another baby in Mar '08 (first two were '92 & '94) and she changed everything for the better. She is the best thing that could have happened to me and my family.

Congratulations for standing up to your parents. I hope you are floating in a placid pool of relief and are planning to have the best summer of your life (even without making plans, iykwim).

That was brave of you, 1foot. Thank you. I know what it's like to lose it - I've sometimes heard my own screeching voice and thought "Is that me???!" I did it out of frustration, feeling theatened & powerless. As you so perceptively said, my partners triggered all my old 'Dad' buttons. It took me longer than you've taken to figure it out: much longer!

I think most people fail to realise how generalised this fear/flight/fight response becomes, after years of conditioning. My partners didn't behave exactly like my dad but they made me feel the same way. It's strange but, looking back, I actually said this to them. (Not that they cared.) What I'm trying to say is: it gets into everything, as you've noticed.

I think the only way past it is THROUGH it, iyswim - by understanding how you were 'trained' to feel this way, you can then start to re-train yourself, better this time!

I'm sad to hear your boyfriend's in a similar predicament - though not hugely surprised. Good that he's also working on it and, dare I say, good that you're taking a break, too.

Does writing stuff down help you make sense of it? You could try keeping a journal - and/or posting here, of course

pinky So glad to hear from you. That is amazing news I am so pleased for you.
May your life be a whole lot lighter as a result of their absence in your life.x

1foot Could I ask what you're reacting to specifically. In order to find your trigger you may need to take a step back.
You feel anger and rage and throw things, What happens to set this off. I'm assuming its something yur partner is doing or saying?
Perhaps you could write about a specific incident, it might help?

Queen It's scary isnt it...how we still despite all their madness end up putting their feelings ahead of our own.

Ive been contemplating wether I sabotage my own success for fear of being abandoned/isolated.
As scapegoatany attention I recieved was negative and therefore to succeed in whatever small little way left me...on my own.
As an adult i am currently without them in my life yet it seems I still have the leftover feelings of panic I would have had as a child at the prospect of abandonment.
I am unable to really enjoy life's successes for this reason. No wonder I sabotage because I relate succeeding with feelings of emptiness not happiness, if that makes sense.
Anyway just my musings..thought I'd share.

grace glad the bbq wasnt as taxing as you thought it may have been. perhaps the tears were from anxiety for what you thought was about to come your way that day?

Whoo, Minxy, I want to be like you!!! Getting there ... I think ...

OMG, Queen, what a macabre accident! And how sad that your first thought was of your sister being cross. My sister thinks that about me, too. Fortunately, I am receiving psychiatric help so that's handy for all concerned

It's great that you noticed what you were thinking, though, isn't it? OK, she still makes it to the top of your mind, but you have realised she has no place there.

Hope the Wirral school doesn't invite you to give a talk on parental abuse ...

Still not got any better at editing

toomany It was Diving with the blue light. Not sure how it works with an internalised voice though? Naming and shaming the voice has helped me. Mines Edna . Yes, I know it's really my mum but giving her a daft name has helped.
I also do the 'lalala not listening'. Childish but it works for me.
When I did my run I heaD HER voice at 3K 'you'll never do it you know, you wont make it'. So I drowned that out literally with 'go smithfield go smithfield'...bit like some loony internal chant .
I reckon if I start flexing my muscles internally I can move on to the external after that. One small step at a time.
Also it struck me that perhaps a log of positive evidence could be useful. Every time you have a 'positive' social interaction toomany, log it, celebrate it.
Something else Im planning to do too.
Glad you have found so much love and healing with dd. x

I like your balloons, bears! I'll swap you a few for an invisible blue shield

Smithfield, one of the 'life scripts' in TA goes: "I must try hard, or not exist." It comes from a child's interpretation of two common instructions to children: "Try harder" and "Go away". Both are perfectly fine in normal families, but some - like ours - overdo it. So "Go Away" becomes "Don't Exist" and "Try Harder" means "You'll Never Be Good Enough But KEEP TRYING!"

A child, formulating what seems like a workable policy out of those instructions, might conclude it's okay to exist as long as she Keeps Trying. This is very much my script. I've made most things infinitely harder than they need to be, and am always - always - trying hard. When things go well I become suicidal (or sabotage it, so I have to keep on trying.) No wonder I'm chronically fatigued.

That is, in summary, the reason why I'm letting so much slide these days. It's an experiment - and it may take a very long time; I don't know. I'm waiting for the granite-layered conditioning, which says I Must Try Or Go Away, to yield to expperience: I'm not trying, and I haven't gone away!

Last week's grief was prompted by flashbacks - mostly from marriage #2, but also some other things - in which I suffered absurd humiliations. I was so keen to not understand, I became a shaking wreck - literally. Often. I was/am grieving for the woman, who was really a child, whose learned directive to Look For The Best, Not The Worst (turning a blind eye to my own feelings; ignoring abuse; accepting lies because I had to lie to myself ... just like Mummy) caused me to have such abysmal expectations of others. I am ANGRY and very, very sad that this happened.

I haven't finished grieving but I wore myself out.

"Woo tools"

These are some of the 'tools' my therapists have taught me, which help. Thought I'd pass a few on, as they get mentioned from time to time. anybody else cares to loan theirs; please do, my toolbox is never too full

1] Impermeable, invisible shield, as mentioned above. Mine's made of blue Perspex but yours can be any way you like it. Some people furnish theirs with gardens, chaises longues, flying fish and all sorts. The important qualities for your shield are:-

• You spend quite some time & thought on creating it. It will keep you safe wherever, and for as long as, you need it, so it's important you make yours really comfortable.
• You can see out of it, hear through it, and others can see & hear you. It is, however, emotionally impermeable.
• It's readily available. I knew somebody who kept hers in her car, as she only needed it at home and always drove there. I carry my invisible toolbox most places with me.
• Upon creation of your shield, test it. Get inside, then think of all the worst barbs, arrows & thunderbolts of hurt that have been fired at you. Bouncing off? Melting? Shattering on contact? All good

2] A magic blade. Again, it's important to invest some thought into its design, for it's a valuable tool with a special purpose. It's for cutting the 'ties that bind you'.

• Mine is a pair of golden dressmaking scissors, studded with diamonds (ethical ones) and other precious stones.
• Think of an individual who has undue influence on you. Picture the relationship as cords joining the two of you together. With my ex, I saw many cords of different kinds; with my mother, it's a huge, twisted, umbilical rope thing.
• Cut the cords. Mostly, you'll have to do this strand by strand. Just take a minute whenever you have quiet time, fetch out your special blade and snip. Snip, snip ...

3] Reverse telescope. This is impressively useful when you're in an abusive relationship, as the abuser tends to take on giant proportions in your psyche.

• Visualise them at normal size (as it seems to you, which may be many times their physical size).
• Adjusting your reverse telescope, zoom out smoothly. Watch them shrink to the size of a toy, the size of a fly, the size of a match head, the size of a speck of dust ... oops! They're gone!
• I did this with my mum once, getting her to picture Dad. When she'd reduced him to just under his physical size, I said "Look at that short, bald, boss-eyed man." Mine was an accurate description, but not how she usually perceived him - she burst out laughing.

4] A safe place: somewhere you will go (in your mind) whenever you feel too wobbly, anxious or distressed. Mine's a real place but yours can be anywhere. Choose carefully.

• For creation of your safe place, pick circumstances where you can be calm & peaceful. Take several deep, soothing breaths. Think about your safe place - picture the colours, the quality of the light, the sounds, temperature, how the air smells and so on. Are you stationary or moving? (Mine's a boat, so moving.) Is it warm, cold, or neither? Feel the sun on your neck, hear the snow crunch under your feet and so on.
• Feel your well-being. Enjoy it for a few moments, or longer.
• Still visualising your safe place, press your thumb into the palm of your hand or your wrist.
• You can revisit your safe place, and your good feeling, whenever you wish. Just press the same thumb in the same place, take a deep breath and relax. This got me through several trumped-up disciplinary hearings at work, so I can vouch for its efficacy!

5] Meditation. People talk a load of mysterious bollox about it, but it's one of the least "woo" techniques in my list.

• Get comfy. Uncross your limbs. Have your back supported. Open your hands.
• Breathe in quite slowly & deeply. Feel you tummy puff out as your breath fills your diaphragm; feel your ribs expand sideways as your breath fills your chest. Hold the breath for a fraction, then let it out slowly.
• Do it again. Just think about your breathing, nothing much else. Notice how it makes the inside of your nose feel cold. Imagine your breath swirling round in your body, all clean & clear.
• Feel a bit nice. Let your face relax in a slight smile. Let a bit of tension leave your neck & shoulders. "Thank" your neck & shoulders for keeping you strong, and taking on your worries. Just let them go for now.
• That's it, basically
• To help your mind relax, don't bother fighting any thoughts that come in. Notice them slightly, then let them float away while you do some nice breathing. Oooh, I could do this for hours!

And not at all "woo":

6] Deep breath an count to ten. Possibly the best-known - and least-practised - mental health tool in human history.

• Triggered? Hold it, now ... just a micro-millisecond, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RESPOND IMMEDIATELY. Really, you don't. You don't have to do anything, in fact.
• Breathe in and out, fairly slowly. There are two tricks for this; both work. Either do a 7/11 breath (breathe in smoothly to count eleven; breathe out to count seven) or just breathe in and out as smoothly as you can, counting slowly from ten to nought.
• Then reply.
• The urge to react instantly is what makes aggressive situations escalate. This is appropriate when operating machinery (driving, for example) and, arguably, in a life-or-death crisis: but not appropriate to human interactions.
• The difference this simple knowledge can make is astounding. I have seen (too often) violent men defuse themselves - just because I made them wait ten seconds.

7] There is no shame in: walking away; saying "That's not a conversation I'm prepared to have right now"; saying "I don't know"; saying "I disagree, that's all"; calling for help from someone who knows; telling another person about what you're suffering; being yourself.

8] Know the difference between shame and guilt.

• Shame is the destructive, self-hating weapon used by aggressors & abusers everywhere (also by addictions). It acid-etches scars on personalities, and serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.
• Guilt is what you feel when you have hurt somebody - it's what motivates you to try and make amends. It's painful, but constructive.
• If you can't tell the difference, it's probably shame. Guilt doesn't lie.

9] Keep a journal. Or, if you're not the verbal type: paint; draw; carve; compose; play. The point is not to create a great work, nor to wallow in your bad stuff. It's just another way of observing your thoughts & feelings. They can surprise you sometimes!

10] Write your best qualities on small cards, and keep them handy - like speech prompts, only these are for your personal use. Mine are always in my handbag, and frequently used.

• Actually, I wrote them on the backs of my business cards ... and accidentally gave them out at a meeting! I wasn't ashamed - after all, they did state my best qualities I've got them on coloured cards now, though.

This has taken ages to type! I hope it doesn't make me look like a nutter. Though I am, of course

hello again

I purposely never had arguments with anyone because I wanted to be better and different from my parents. I wanted to show them too there was a better way of living and that I didn't have to behave like them and I could be happy this way. I was very happy this way and my lack of arguing was like a trophy I polished for myself, holding it up whenever I could to show 'i can be different'. Now I don't have that anymore, its been smashed to bits. Worse is the fact that the person I argue with I love more than anything, a kind person really someone who is just very scared just like I am.

I guess he doesn't really see that there are issues with my family. I of course have gone through the "it wasn't that bad" routine and I guess he has believed it as i did. Also his family have a lot of problems that are obvious to anyone and mine dont ( on the surface), he thinks they are 'normal', and he always would want to choose my family over his for spending time with. We both have toxic dads and scared mums, i guess there is no real difference between them apart from "output" and B came off a lot worse than I did in many ways. Not to negate my stuff of course.

one of the recent triggers has been that I have been considering going back to university and giving up my job as I need to get away from my employer- he wont support this but wont tell me why I know the answer he wants to say is no but is scared to.

"Why wont you answer me? Why wont you tell me what you think" the disapproval is obvious to me. I know its because hes scared I will leave him if I go to university, even when at first I was considering doing the course from distance learning at home. Like my dad who hated any idea that I might want to do something for myself or more that I would be out of his sight, dad went totally mental when i left home to go to university even though at the same time when he talked to other people he sobbed with pride cos I was the 1st person in the family to go.

B used to be the person who was proud of me. the only person in the world who ever had been, i felt really strong, but then weak at the same time, why do I need someone to back me I never did when I was single? Now i feel if I don't get that backing I cant do anything and am paralysed. My confidence is shot to pieces, it didn't used to be, I used to be ( pretend?) really confident and was well known for it.

Sorry for the essay there is a lot there!

QUEEN- sorry to hear you are anxious about the text meesage. Personally I think you have nothing to worry about, you are just raising the flag, to your sister, its not your fault that the message didnt get through to her nor is it your fault that she is choosing denial over truth. You can only do what you can do and it sounds like you are just trying to protect the little ones, nothing wrong with that.

1foot It sounds like you are not really seeing each other at the moment? Instead you are projecting your father onto you BF (lack of approval support), whilst projects his feelings of abandonment/rejection on to you.
You need his approval/support as a partner but you dont need it in the same way as you did from your father, which would have felt more like 'needing permission'.
Wrt the arguing, Im not sure you will be able to get through the rest of your life without arguing with anybody. Arguing doesnt have to be toxic, if you can stand in the present and talk as adults. Sounds like you are both retreating into child selves currently though.
It doesnt sound like it has to be the end of your resltionship if you can both understand and recognise where these powerful emotions are emerging from?

grace Woo tools. Love it. I was supposed to design a beautiful room with cushions, all white and peaceful and reassuring. I see now I need a masssive window.

Im doing a similar thing to you currently. I had all these grand plans for what I would do/what I would become on finishing work.
I have decided to see how doing nothing feels. It should be ok to just be me.
Struggling with this concept but getting there x

1foot sorry just read that back and it sounded a bit dismissive, it wasnt meant to...was typing quickly before heading out with two Dcs.
I meant with the arguing thing it was something you had suppressed but Im guessing you would need to keep suppressing feelings in order for you to never actually disagree.

No its ok Smithfield, i wasnt feeling dismissed- dont worry. I am quite resilient really (!hahaha!!)

I am a bit busy at the mo, I just wanted to let you know I will read your posts, which are always helpfull, and catch up soon, so busy at the moment, just wanted to give you all a virtual hug and a kiss, kiss, take care all x

Good morning all, How are you all today? Is anyone around to chat?

I am very busy at the moment, I can't seem to get knuckled down to do what I need to as I feel the need to be stroked so to speak, I am seeing people later, I just need to know that I exist to other humans, outside of my children!

I had a bad few weeks, I am thinking positive and working through, making plans etc, invoking the adult within.

My innerchild is in need of some recognition!

I am going to set up something to do each night, I am not sure how I will do it yet, it is like an alter type meditation thing, someone told me they do... It is to aid grieving and saying goodbye... You light a candle and wrap a blanket around you and hold it tight around you like a hug, and you spend so much of the time thinking or crying or what you need to do, so that the rest of your day can avoid the leakage of pain, I want to do that, I think it will be healthier for me! I will get back to you how I get on, has anyone else done something like this?

I was crying yesterday and feeling vounerable, I can't even talk about what about just yet, I keep working on making life positive and things out of my control are causing problems again, I just want someone in the real world to show me some kindness, not to use or abuse me, I am reaching out slowly, I don't know, I need to work out what I want, I know I don't need people anymore, that self imposed exile has given me strength, I would like understanding I know I will never get, I want people to know the truth and believe me and I know I will not get that, I want my parents to have loved me and I will never get that, it was all about what I could be used for!

I got a new dog at the weekend, from a rescue centre, not a lot of history is known it is young and had milk, and was found abandoned, the children and I are so pleased, she has a lovely temprament! I don't know a lot about dogs, and read up a little on dog training, I also used what I have learned about human psychology, the dog went from pulling on the lead, not knowing how to play with toys, not knowing any commands etc, well I learned a trick to teach it how to sit, and it does, I used tricks learned on how to handle my youngest daughter who is hard work on the dog, and we have a lovely dog now, training classes are starting soon. It is making me think of so many things in life...

One I would like to discuss, is animal cruelty and using something for your own needs, I think that is all my father thinks of others, he had greyhounds, he locked them in the shed, and took them out to race, when they were no good to him anymore he drown them, he had two dogs like that, I was so scared of them they would go nuts if you went near the shed, so I avoided the back garden, they were not pets, I think now how sad the life for those two dogs were, and I think i was just there for him to use too...

The thing with mother as well, allowing that... getting my head around his controlling ways and her controlling ways...

his were through violence, her's were through psychological manipulation!

I think back to being 12, sitting in the kitchen typing up illegal documents at a typewriter, not a great speller myself as mild dyslexia of course not diagnosed as a child, come on as if they would care.... anyways father who is illiterate standing over me in his strong accent getting me to spell things I could not spell and him screaming at me and scaring me to type things I could not telling me I was stupid etc, getting angry at me, and me wanting to run away, but despirate for any attention, I know why I was typing them not mother who was in living room watching tv with brother who is just over a year younger with their feet up on sofa, if he was caught it was my fingerprints on the paperwork and the typewriter... god I feel so used and such a fool, I am so upset they did that to me...

Mother by the way had a good profession, respected and good earner, father was a builder, and never wanted to learn to read, even when my children were learning i offered to teach him with them, he refused

I just looked over and saw that my words were trick... interesting.... to explain further...

to teach a dog to sit, you get a treat and put it over dogs head so far that the only way to keep looking at treat is to sit... it is not a trick it is a way of teaching i suppose, it is just interesting that i chose the words "trick"!