My children are the reason he's leaving, any advice?

[PatienceRequired]

Hi all,
I am unsure whether to post this here or on the step family board but i am a regular lurker here and so feel more at home on this board.

My partner and i have been together for nearly 4 years and we both have two children from previous relationships. His are grown and independant while mine are only 7 and 4 years old. We have one dd together who is 26 months.

He wants to leave due to the fact that he just can not tolerate my two children. We have had issues before with the way he disciplines them so harshly and gives them little positive interaction to balance it. But when he tries he can be lovely with them. This is the only sticking point in our relationship.

He says he doesn't want to leave me and dd but just cant bear my 2 anymore. He says if he had somewhere to go he would be gone but he seems to be in such turmoil, like he wants to stay but dosen't want to either. He seems in such a dark place i am worried for his mental health regardless of the outcome for us as a couple. Not helped by the fact that yesterday he found out he may be out of a job in 6 weeks.

We are still "friends" and are talking lots, we don't really do shouting and screaming with venom when we have a problem but a conversation, with calm voices and taking time to consider what is being said. last night he cried which is only the second time i have seen in cry. (the other being at his brothers wedding in feb) To be honest its like he's having a midlife crisis. He assures me its not "us" that is the problem but my 2 children. And he is feeling angrier with them each day as they mean that he can't be with me and dd.

I have suggested that we can't be the only step family to have this issue and there must be some help available but he won't entertain the idea at all. He dosen't have any faith in counselling or alternative therapies at all. Or any compassion for mental health problems. As if you cant see the injury it dosen't exist. I have discussed my concern with him re his mental health but he believes that the kids are the cause of how low he feels, when i question if they are just an easy scapegoat.

As it stands he's looking for somewhere to go but not coming up with any options. In the meantime we are all kinda walking on eggshells, and it has over the years affected my relationship with my kids negatively. I know i can't allow him to treat them badly, but feel like i am in no-win situation. If we stay together then 2 of my children may be affected but if we split then the little dd life will never b the same again. I know all about 2 seperate happy parents are better than 2 miserable together, and she is young enough to adapt, but either way some of them are going to end up f*cked up and thats without taking my wishes into consideration.

I'm not sure what i want from this really, any one got any advice, or similar experiences? how did you deal with it and what was the outcome? Perhaps i just need to vent and have a virtual hand hold... i don't know what to feel really...scared to think about how i feel in case i just fall apart and cant get it back together again for the kids. It just seems such a shame when we as a couple are happy together.

I've got a great idea. Put your eldest two up for adoption and then you and DP and new baby can all live happily ever after!

Or, contact the Police about the abuse and get him arrested.

But seriously, DO NOT blame your children for the end of this relationship. They are little children - don't hold it against them for the rest of their lives.

Or, allow the youngest to grow up blaming the older two.

Seek some crisis counselling - fast.

Do you know what, how fucking dare he???? What a rotten, poor excuse for a man. He's not allowed to touch your kids! If a real man gave him a kicking he'd ring the police and whine like a sick puppy, wouldn't he? But he can hurt children. Pathetic, low and I hope he gets everything he deserves

Oh dear.

PR, if you come back and read all this, just ask yourself some questions. What is it that you want? You want your partner to change his behaviour towards your children, yes? How could that be achieved?

He won't countenance counselling or accept that his behaviour is unacceptable. He blames the younger children for breaking up your relationship and he is intolerant, harsh and possibly (by your own admission) has mental health issues.

Can you see that this is not something that can be solved whilst you are in a relationship together. Possibly if he moved out, took responsibility for his actions and made some concrete moves towards showing you that he could change and be trusted, then you might think about next steps.

Until then, you need - as you already know - to get him away from your children. You need to step up and protect them.

I hope you have the strength and will to carry it through, because your children need you, really need you, to do this for them.

Good advice from TheQuibbler.

I will leave this thread now, it is too close to the bone. I have a 7 year old and a 4 year old son, and it breaks my heart to think about your two little ones.

i was on the child protection register. my mother blamed me for that, and made me pay for it.so did he.

please op, you know somewhere inside that this is wrong because you posted.

apathy will hurt your children. you will fuck them up, even your youngest will be damaged, she will feel guilty for the older two if she grows up seeing them hurt by him.

i doubt very much he can change. when social services got involved in my homelife, my SF behaved for a while, had to be seen to do the right thing. it never lasted.

things got worse the older i got. it went from low level insults and physical abuse at 7, to full scale horror by the time i was 12 when i had a nervous breakdown. he hated me and i knew it and i did nothing but try to please 24 hours a day. i wanted him to like me. i wanted my mum to like me. whatever i did was never good enough. i couldnt make him like me. i was pathetic. a grovelling pathetic wreck at 12 years old, quietly taking daily beatings and insults,all the time knowing it was wrong and all the time trying to modify my own behaviour to avoid it.
by the time i was 15 id tried to take my own life 3 times.

if i thought it would shock you into doing something i would go and dig that letter out. you might think this is extreme, my mother wouldnt have. she would have you believe there was nothing wrong, maybe he gave me a little discipline now and again. nothing to worry about. are you doing this op?

not too long ago, my half sibling got in touch, he didnt get the lions share of the abuse but witnessed mine, he has been a heroin addict for the last 10 years or so. he says that now SF is dead my mother is starting to 'remember'. i dont have contact with either of them, too damaging. i left all that behind.

i left home at 15. i met my DH, who was my rock. my life is good, 2 great kids, good job in the offing, no one knows my background.
do you want this for your children?

Most people yearn for love and security and partnership from another adult at some level but sometimes that longing for love is so deep that it twists people's perception of their partner and makes them blind to and/or tolerant of extremely serious failings. As others have said, your partner sounds like he does not treat your children well at all and it's worrying that you don't automatically hate him for that and want him out of your life. This is a pattern often evident in families where serious abuse occurs. Please get some help- do you have faith in counselling? I think it might be helpful. There are usually reasons why someone has such low self-esteem that they in effect choose a man over their children.

I think counselling/therapy for yourself, PR, would be a very good option. In fact, it is probably essential.

You sound so passive about the situation. Unnaturally so.

What has happened in your life to get you to the point where you would allow a man to hit your children? Or to have a 'discussion' about how unacceptable/intolerable he finds them? Who taught you that you should accept this type of behaviour?

There's much more going on here and you must try to address it.

Those poor babies.

My ex was exactly the same, please leave him for your children sake.

There is no middle ground.

There is no magic wand.

In grown-up life, no-one holds your hand. You hold your own hand. It's called being a responsible adult. You have been given the gift of children, and you should hold their hands.

I appreciate you might be reeling, but do you understand why your OP has been met with such shock and consternation?

You are presenting yourself and your partner as being normal, happy and functional, BUT with appalling abuse towards your children being perpetrated and tolerated within this.

Happy adult relationships do not include or tolerate child abuse. I am not convinced by any of your posts that you are clear on this. Please reassure the mnet community that you are.

Something does not add up in your OP and subsequent posts. I wish you all the best and hope you make some decisions quickly.

Id be very wary assuming he has mental health problems , he sounds like a bully and an abuser. I assume he only " disciplines " them in private and talks about his intense dislike of them only to you, not to your family or freinds
I wonder if he started off pushing you around / emotionally or physically and has now progressed to the dcs ?
Very very worrying hes saying this but still has his arse lodged in your house . Hes kind of warning you really , your lack of action will be taken as acceptance.

You sound in over your head, i think you need serious help and support for both you and the dcs, this isnt normal behaviour, you sound very worn down by him , perhaps speak to womans aid and educate yourself about the way abusive men operate.
And kick his arse out. Today.

Op you say you met him when you were at a low point, its not unusual for these bullies to seek out a woman whos vulnerable. you need to talk to someone. Years of being bullied or controlled can make you feel crap and can make you accepting of circumstances that you never usually would. Once you get away from their influence you start to see things very differantly.

Your teaching your dcs some seriously damaging lessons here , they are watching and listening all the time . You, and them are worth so much more.
I also note your concerns re if you split. If you split ( and you should ) you are not screwing up anybody, you are showing your dcs that your all worth more, that its not ok to have someone bullying you or pushing you around , and that they are more important than some bullying arse who picks on little kids.

And as for being single, the sky wont cave in , you wont die , life will be fun again without this bully about. My day has consisted of meeting freinds for lunch, shopping , laughing, and i mean laughing till your tummy hurts , night out with freinds , more laughing , too much drink, giant kebab on way home, more laughing, arrive home 2.30 am, 2 packets of cheesy wotsists and a nose on mumsnet.

Wasnt long ago i was married to an abuser and a bully and you wouldnt beleive the shit i put up with . Now im like who ? You mean that fat little fucker ?

So what does he want you to do? Choose him and ditch your poor children?

The quick way to end this is to fling his stuff out on the front lawn and change your locks. He will be just fine. Please don't waste any time worrying about him or feeling sorry for him just because he cries. Do your children not cry?

Tossing his stuff out and barring him entry is also the only way to deal with this so-called man.

A man, a real man, does not blame two small children for the breakup of his relationship with their mother. You have a really immature, angry, abuser on your hands.

Hi, PatienceRequired, I'm afraid I'm another one whose mother put her marriage to a horrid man before her children's welfare. I won't bore you with the details.

I came back to your thread, having read it at lunchtime, as I found myself getting more & more angry at your ridiculous husband. Now I've caught up, my anger has turned to contempt for him - and concern for you. Somehow, your values have become so warped that you're prepared to give thought to a husband's demand that his wife abandon her own children. Of course, this is nothing to do with the kids themselves: it's all about him, and his power over you. Having a baby will not change him.

I'm very sorry you've come to this pass. It must be painful for you to read your replies here, and I salute your courage in trying to face the facts of your life at present.

You can get out of this, and you should.

I hope you'll find a chance to ring Women's Aid and talk things through with somebody who's seen it all before. You really do deserve better, and so do your children.

OP, you had the strength to come back on here and respond to everyone and are no doubt taking it all on board. Therefore you have the strength to act too.

One of the bitter truths that any psychiatrist will confirm is that you will not get someone to deliver 'Bahaviour A' when you keep rewarding them for delivering 'Behaviour B' and that is what you are doing. Whist you (and in turn your children) take what he is giving he will carry on treating you in exactly the same way. As well you know.

So: here are the possible outcomes:

1. You carry on as before. The posters on this thread have told you in no uncertain terms how this will damage your children.
2. You try desperately to get him to see the error of his ways to avoid breaking up the family. How is this change of behaviour going to happen? The truth is he has had 4 years of having his behaviour vindicated because everyone has put up with it, there's absolutely NO VALUE to him in changing that behaviour now. Why should he? His self esteem is so low that only by kicking you and your DC's around can he achieve value for himself, so he's not likely to address his inadequacies unless there is something in it for him. Sorry, but he is not on some kind of road to Damascus here, is he?
3. You leave him and he hates you violently for it and his DD grows up without a functional relationship with her dad (Um, is that actually a bad thing?). You will have a horribly volatile period of instability and it will be a struggle. You might worry about how you will cope.
4. You leave him and he realises the error of his ways and promises to change, giving you the chance to get him to accept he is the problem: Then he either comes good, proves himself and you get back together, with a possibility that he falls back into old habits and you go back to option 2 or 3 above (ad infinitum).

That's it really. I can't think of any others. And given the above is it any wonder why we are all saying that (3) is the answer. You have to do it. If he is a man worthy of you (in your eyes, regardless of what we all think) then he might - just might - go down route 4 as a result.

Good luck. You need at least that whatever you do.

OP - have you seen this thread?

here

I totally second what Stillsquiffy is saying.

I also think the ONLY way he can change, and modify his behaviour to become a fully functionally normal grown up man, is if you kick him out. You can then see if it is possible to work on the relationship. You can then ask him to come with you for councelling. Only by kicking him out will you be holding all the cards, and you will be in a strong position for negotiating what you want.

Please, kick him out. It may be the only way to actually save your relationship, and save your children.

Then, do NOT accept him back unless you both have had councelling, and to be honest, I think for him, couples councelling might not be enough, you should ask him to refer himself for Anger Management through his GP.

If you and him, and your dd and your children shall have a chance of a happy life together he needs to DO things.

He needs to come to couples councelling with you, he needs to see his GP about his depression and get some anger management. He needs to understand that you are a family of 5, 2 adults and 3 children, all of whom are worthy of love and adoration in equal measures.

Only then can I see a future for your relationship with happy people in it, not just an abusive man, a courageless woman and 2 (maybe 3) abused children.

So, please, kick him out. Tell him his attitude and behaviour is not acceptable. Tell him you will be willing to talk to him about how to salvage your relationship, but not until he has left, as you need time apart from him to think.

PR your husband has never bonded with your children after 4 years together, he is not going to start now. He hasn't talked about wanting to love them but being unable to get past them not being his biologically. He has said he can't tolerate them and he hits them. My God woman, what do we have to say to tell you this is a lost cause?

You stay as things are and your oldest 2 leave the house (it isn't a home for them is it?) as soon as they can. They come to resent the princess of the family and that relationship is ruined too.

Or you grow up and realise your children should come first and you kick him out.

It is a straight choice - happy children or you staying with someone who must talk a good talk or shag you really well because why else would you put him first before your children?

My dad didn't want me either and it really fucks you up knowing your parents never ever put you first - not even once.

Get him out of the house ASAP. You can go on magic courses and stuff once your children are away from him. He has to improve himself BEFORE you let him anywhere near you again, not whilst he's with you.

Please do this NOW.

"there must be a middle ground, like support from a step family group, or course or anything??? guess i want to make sure i have done all i can, cos isn't that what you're supposed to do"

The whole point is that these solutions cannot work because this... "gentleman"... has already ruled out anything of the sort. They are all things that a lot of posters would have suggested if it hadn't been quite clear that he is not interested. He would rather carry on blaming the children than address his own problems. Unless and until that changes, no groups or courses will make a blind bit of difference.

Maybe he is mentally unwell, maybe he can't help it, but that isn't really the point. Ultimately, you cannot rescue someone who refuses to be rescued. You can throw him a rope but you can't make him grab hold of it. And meanwhile your children are drowning... so yes, I'm afraid, I'm with absolutely everyone else on this thread. Doesn't the fact that it's unanimous tell you something?

Patience, well done for coming back and listening, it can't be easy.

The reason, I think, is that people are being very clear cut and harsh sounding is because your description of him rings loud alarm bells of a picture we can see v clearly from the outside. That his behaviour isn't just a bit 'not great' at times- we can all behave bot at our best in a elationship - but is of a type, is symptomatic of controlling and abusive.

And that is the reason people see little hope fo a middle ground. Some counselling services, for example, decline to see couples where one partner is abusive, because they do not want to enable the continuation of an abusive relationship.

It's also understandable that you would need some support totackle (leave) an unhalthy relationship because the cntrol and abuse ensures that your own self-belief and self-esteem is stripped away, It is a casualty of him, along wih your children

Have a look at some of the lists of signs of eotiona abuse - the Women's Aid website is a good place to start.

I see that you say you may not be able to come back to this thread before Monday - good uck - and I hope that you wil find suport and strength on MN.

It's very extreme, you know, to tell you he can't stand your children. Most partners with step children do all they can to love and accommodate step children because of the love they have for the parent, their partner, and then because they come to care for them spontaneously. Your DP is trying to oush your children out. He doesn't love and support your life enough to have wanted you as a family. That's the harsh truth.

The hatred of a step parent is a terrible thing - think of all those fairy stories where (usually) a wicked stepmother sends the children into the forest to meet thier end. Your children are living the reality of this.

I wonder what your children would say about him? You know the really sad thing is that they'd probably say they loved him because that is all they know. He's their 'dad' to all extents and purposes. Do you think that is OK?