Introducing my partner to feminism...

[blinder]

On the back of a spate of good feminism threads here lately I am looking for book recommendations to give to my DP as an introduction to a feminist critique of society.

He's not a particularly neanderthal man - he loves Naomi Klein for example - but he's a bit uneducated about the reality facing women today.

We have a six month old daughter and it worries us both that she is being launched into a culture that systematically de-humanises (objectifies) girls. I'm sure he would be willing to explore ways that we can parent her consciously so that she can preserve her identity in the face of damaging cultural norms.

At the same time, I don't want him to feel lectured, blamed or patronised by the book. But I would like him to be able to examine his own investment in male superiority and recognise that he does have many assumptions about women and many blind spots about male privilege.

It's a fine line.

So, books for men, fathers or people new to feminism?

I meant I very much agree on your point about the creeping sexualisation etc

Nikita - LeQueen's first post was very offensive and has been removed by Mumsnet.

What's this with the "so less of the Poor You OP approach please..."

Are you in charge now?

Thanks Nikita - think I may have jumped on your post a little - oops! I worry about my son too.

Someone earlier said they hope the backlash [to the sexualisation] is around the corner. Let's hope so.

Why was the OP insulted????????????????????????????????????????????????????

whoever reported LeQueen's post - thank you.

SugarMousepink;

Thanks for your reply....fascinating stuff..!

Feminism really confuses me (I know it doesn't show).....it's women I have problems with.....alot of feminists are so angry ..

Men are usually no problem..

I think that's exactly it Curly. When DD was a baby, she wore a lot of DS's old clothes, and therefore "looked like a boy" a lot of the time. When she wore the girly stuff, people's reactions were different. They used different words to describe her. We treat babies differently according to sex from the very beginning, unconsciously as well as consciously I'm sure. Even without a value judgement on that, it's interesting I think.

junglist for being boring and pompous and humourless and patronising and living with a wimp! Dont worry we are all over it now and it's a love-fest .

After much reading of Richard Dawkins, there is much to suggest (to me at least) that there is an evolutionary link in wanting to look "pretty" as a female.

And as someone who has a good career and certianly does not earn less than my male equivilants, there can be no true equalilty in earnings and career path til men are seen as 50% of the child rearing equation. Though I don't think 50% of women would be happy to hand their dcs over to hubby and go back to work full time. Please feel free to correct me.

"I formed a very quick opinion of her and that opinion was that she sounds quite boring. Most feminists are boring aren't they... feminism is so 1970's"

Fucking hell dp! You are a parody of yourself now.

I've always found it interesting that in much of the animal kingdom it's the males that are much more showy and "pretty" to attract females. Does Dawkins explain this difference, Porto?

Does Dawkins talk about this? Haven't read much. Seems more evolutionary psychology to me. Where's monkeytrousers?!

Um no Bibbity, why..are you?

Don't think I said anything offensive in my post, not sure why you should have any issue with it, I think the OP agreed with me that she was able to hold her own.

I never saw the deleted post anyway because it was, well, deleted.

"'Intolerant'. Why shouldn't we be intolerant of those who hold views that are offensive?!

How is the pursuit of respect and the desire to being treated as an equal something that would put you - or any other woman - off, exactly?

Or do you not want to be treated as an equal? Would you rather not have the vote? Not earn an equal wage? Not have the right to work? Etc, blah blah ad infinitum

BecuaseI'mWorthIt in what you say, above, you have precisely demonstrated the intolerant nature of your own brand of feminism.

I actually believe that all people, both male and female are entitled to be treated with respect and as equals.

And by the way, in civilised society, I'm afraid one has to tolerate the opinions of otherwise, offensive or not. It's called Democracy, you should look it up sometime."

Now I'm not a stupid woman. But I have no idea what you're saying here. What I'm saying is precisely what you're saying, re respect and equality. So how am I somehow intolerant?!!

And I'm perfectly aware of the meaning of democracy, thank you.

I hope no-one is seriously suggesting that little girls have evolved the desire to wear a playboy necklace. Because I think the repellant rabbit as I like to call it has been designed and marketed by adult men.

Biwi....I'm beginning to think you find everything offensive....

Chill out

Lord, don't ask me to do Dawkins and evolution at this time on a Sunday night! I have to go to bed soon. I might not look pretty in the morning, but I have meetings with telecoms engineers and I have to do my own little bit for feminism by kicking arse.

As you didn't see what LQ said then I don't think you are in a position to say whether or not it was viscious. I don't think its up to you to direct other posters on this thread on their "approach" to the op, either. No need to .

BIWI I didn't understand that post either... Do you have your 'own brand of feminism'? That's a bit selfish. (joking btw!)

Sometimes I wonder if some women struggle with feminism because disturbing the status quo makes life too challenging. Otherwise why would any woman argue with a movement that gives women the chances that men have always taken for granted,

Appearance is important in evolutionary terms. As is status in the herd/group.

LeQ - I was interested in your earlier comment that far from being viewed negatively as a woman, your experience was often "quite the reverse". What did you mean by that?