Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

You are not making the situation worse, Forthebest. You have absolutely no control over the situation. You can't affect it for better or for worse. None of his behaviour is your fault. He is the one who chooses how things will go.

Whether there's some reason that can sound rational for him making an issue of where you are, he is still controlling you, making you answer to him, making you feel you owe him some kind of reassurance. You have the right to shag the whole town if you feel like it. He doesn't have any right to keep tabs of any kind on you. Keeping tabs is stalking. This is the same kind of behaviour many posters here have described -- their H's have kept records and diaries of their activities and behaviour while they lived together.

You're not giving him false hope either, when you accept his 'offers' of lifts here and there (he offers so that he will know exactly where you are when you go out, btw); you're giving him power. He has all the marks of a dangerous man -- he is possessive and jealous to an alarming degree, he keeps track of where you are and seems to think you owe him explanations and excuses.

Forthebest, you are probably like I was, in that he rings you several times a day and you get the inquisition if you do not answer. You have been programmed to answer your phone to him so you are doing it now.

If you have separated from your h then you must acknowledge to yourself that you are now leading a seperate life.
The next time he rings you then purposely don't answer. You have the choice. Have a ready-made excuse if you need to for when you do speak to him and he questions you as to where you were. Practice being seperate from him and the mental seperation will follow. I'm doing it all the time

I do the detaching with my H who I am still with. If I do not, I end up a frustrated, screwed-up mess. I have been very good at doing this in the last month. Yesterday, I failed. I had a miserable day because of my communication with my H. I got drawn into pointless, poisonous texting and it absolutely ruined my day. That is the effect he has on me and I should not be with him anymore.

We were separated for a year a few years back. During that time he constantly harassed me with texts and phone calls, but mostly texts as I refused to answer the phone to him as I did not even want to talk to him as I knew it would make me feel even worse than I already felt. He would text me and text me until he got a response and a 'reaction'. The texts would get more and more threatening and abusive as well if I didn't reply. As soon as he had been satisfied that he had distressed me, he would cut off immediately. He is very sadistic. He does the same thing in everyday communication as well - as soon as he has pulled the rug out from under your feet, he will withdraw and enjoy it, I suppose.

It is very hard to detach but if you are not with him anymore, you have the freedom to not have to engage with him anymore (apart from the dc). My H obviously used, like alot of them seem to, contact re. the dc as a weapon against me when we were separated, and regularly let the dc down. Another form of control obviously. Keep the mother of your dc 'guessing' as to whether or not you will turn up, and I couldn't tell the dc that they were definitely seeing him - so, it kept everyone waiting and guessing while he would be calling the shots from where he was living and doing the typical NPD thing of causing as much disruption to other people as possible, and being totally unaffected by it.

And, not using your name. I agree this would personalise a partner and also I think it is just too personal and intimate for some NPDs. Maybe all part of their neglectful personality. It has taken me some effort to use the terminology 'I' and talk about myself nowadays with my H. It makes me feel like a 'real' person again and I hope trains my brain to think - 'what do I think/want' etc. rather than 'him' 'him' 'him'.

Grrrrr!!!!

BA that is sound advice.
I used the exercise book to record my ex's emotional and verbal abuse prior to going to court. I also kept all of his nasty texts to me - and the times they were sent!
I wrote everything down into a list to give to my solicitor and was amazed to see just how much there was. Stuff that I had ignored on a day to day basis looked awful once I had listed it all.

I have now been seperated 8 months. For most of that time my ex has tried engaging me in a discussion about my behaviour and blame in order to justify his behaviour.
I don't reply to his texts, no longer use email. His hand delivered and registered letters are filed and ignored.
Arrangements to see the dc are made in a brief exchange when he drops them off.
It is difficult to keep ignoring and blocking his insistent presence in my life, but I will continue to do so. It gets easier as I get stronger - and I get stronger every day that I don't have to deal with him!

When I split with my H, I will involve legal arrangements re access as I have seen how he behaved in our year of separation, and I am not putting dc through that again.

However, my experience has been that he was able to just 'switch off' from them, when not with them and didn't care if he didn't see them for many weeks, and, as with people generally in life, it really is a case of 'out of sight is out of mind' as far as feeling bonded or attached to people emotionally. Of course, this does not apply to being nasty to someone from a distance - just with respect of not having deep emotional ties to anyone (eg his dc).

From what I have read on NPD websites, they hopefully will leave their ex's alone when they have found a new narcisisstic supply?

I realise this is difficult when there are dc involved. But I am hoping that in the future, when I am not with my H, that he will not harass me as much if he finds a new partner, and our finances are not connected any more, as money is probably one of the main areas of control with him, and I am hoping that once he can keep his finances to himself (apart from maintenance) he will have no reason to bother me (other than the dc) - especially if he has a new partner.

Have others found it easier when their ex gets a new partner? Do you get free of them?

Yes. I have realised that a happy mother means happy children.

Unfortunately, those with NPD, and men capable of abuse, don't think/care/take this on board.

I will never forgive my H for the physical abuse to me when my dc were babies/toddlers. It was all I could do to just struggle to look after them - let alone be an 'available' mother beyond that, and it affected my relationship with my eldest ds as well.

I get angry because I feel I lost those early years with my dc, and I had to struggle to even have them in the first place. But I cannot get that time back now. At least I am aware of it now and how quickly they grow up.

I think I have gone off men at the moment.

'If I answer it and I can calm him, make him go away happy, then I can hang up the phone and go about my day with a sigh of relief.If he is angry with me I feel physically sick and I cant concentrate, I cant function properly.'

Please call Womens Aid, Forthebest. You need lots and lots of support from them to get to the point where you can tell him to go away, and maybe a restraining order too.
Here's the contact information.

Regarding the meeting to 'sort things out' between the two of you, what he wants to do is yell at you, manipulate you, pressure you. He doesn't want to listen to you. What he has in mind is an ego trip. Is there any way you can find the strength to tell him the meeting is off???? If he does come over, can you try to say something calm like 'I'm sorry you feel that way' when he accuses you or tells you he is so angry, and don't commit to anything he demands, just say you'll have to think about everything he has said and get back to him; you could have a set of neutral and non-commital responses at the ready.

Forthebest you sound exactly like me a few months ago. I know what is like for you. It's exactly that well known phase 'walking on eggshells'. All your energy is going into appeasing him, second guessing what he might do or say, your own head is swimming just trying to manage him and his emotions.

You cannot function as aperson in your own right until you seperate yourself from the bond that ties you to him. He may be out of the house, but he still has control over you.
I couldn't seperate from my ex until I got outside help. I swallowed my pride and told my mum and sister what was really going on. I went to see Womens Aid and kept posting for help and support on a site like this one.

You need to acknowledge to yourself that no amount of discussing or 'sorting things out' will change anything. You cannot reason with him and he will never see things from your point of view. It will just keep going round in circles until he believes he has control and put you back in your place.

Please get some real life help and support so you don't have to do this on your own.

Thanks Mathanxiety I will contact them. I DO need help, because I really cant do this.
I am not afraid he will hurt me, I am not afraid of that at all. I am afraid of myself almost. I am afraid that I will cave in because for some reason I am so utterly pathetic I spend my time imagining how my family " could " be and how he has promised he " will " be even though I know in my heart he wont.
He wont work, he has told me he is " too ill " he refuses to stop smoking and basically plays it form the angle that I am cruel and unloving because I have kicked him out, denied him his kids and his house because he is too ill to work.
Its not that though. Its the fact I am not allowed any friends, any social life, he hates my family, he hates me working even though I HAVE too !!! I cant even go to the Kids primary school disco without a text from him warning me that if I dance with anyone he will break their fg legs for making him look a mug !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will go with the neutral answers I think. I will practice telling him I need more time. Its our dd1's birthday on sunday and he wants to take her from 3 -7pm to his mothers. I dont have a problem with that but he has bombarded me with question about the birthday and how he can only see her for a few hours and how he is going to buy her a mobile etc so he can contact her without involving me. All just to get a response from me.
Today at work he has text me about 8 times demanding my sister remove some pics from facebook and how he is so angry that i am playing with our kids safety. He is so angry with me. I honestly feel like running away.
I wish I was as strong as some of you.
18 years is going to take some undoing isnt it !!!

FTBA - no self-esteem from years of manipulative npd abuse and lack of self-belief, not financially independent - continual threats of no money, high earner (him) with the financial control, huge mortgage, debts, tax office bailiffs threatening to come re. tax I owed from business ptnshp. with him, isolated, lack of friends, dating other women (platonically and texting me details, and financially not feasible to run two households. I did consult a solicitor about the possibility of getting an injunction to stop him coming back to family home (joint owners) but all I managed in the end was for him to be sent, before he returned, a warning letter from my solicitor warning him against domestic violence etc.

FTBA - and, yes, you can guess - it has not worked out to be a happy solution.

Oh autumnlight please dont thik I was criticising. I am absolutely not and am not in a position to judge. Its just that you sound so strong and so in control, I wondered how he had managed to worm his way back in. The very same way my OH is trying I suspect !!
I am so sorry if I offended you x

I have just had a look at that womensaid website. he has never hit me will they think I am crazy for phoning ? Is it just for women who have suffered domestic violence ?

FTB you are experiencing domestic violence. Emotional and verbal abuse is domestic violence.

Forthebest -- Keep all those texts. Every last one. Is there any way to get the texts from, say, the last week or ten days, just to show the sheer volume, and also the nasty content?

The threats to break legs, etc. all warrant a restraining order. You have a lot more opportunity to get on top of all this than you believe you have right now.

How old is your DD? The idea that he will get her a phone (a leash) is a bit sickening.

xxxxx

Women's Aid will NOT think you are crazy for phoning. Too many people think abuse is only about physical violence.

FTB - you did not offend me at all. I was just trying to give a kind of synopsis. In the time leading up to my H returning, I got very worn down and depressed by all the various pressures. My H has always been a bully and he was bullying me even when I was not with him. He did worm his way back in and got what he wanted (to be back in the family home - 'which he pays for' to use his words- and get control - my words), by worrying, manipulating, using my insecurities, endless threats (as is his way) of repurcussions against me. Unfortunately, it all got on top of me and I became depressed by it all so it was easier for him to get what he wanted.

It was very hard dealing with him when he came back and still being depressed as a result of his actions. It is very hard to pick yourself up when you are with that person, and I would now advise anyone to keep away from their npd partner.

Detaching oneself is the only way forward with this men.

I am naturally very bubbly person so i tell my H everything, eventhough the vibe i get from him is that he doesnt care, but when i reserve myself like him he becames anxious, and pays extra attention and when i return to be the person i am he goes back to ignoring me.

Before he started to show his true colour he used to give me a cuddle until i fall slow sleep but that changed since i got pregnant and got worse after i gave birth, it didnt stop me from asking him to give me a cuddle sometimes he does sometimes he doesnt, that made me feel so much worse that he doesnt when he knew well that it means so much to me and i was also angry at myself for being this weak.The solution to this has been going to sleep at differnt time, if he goes to bed early i go to sleep bit late so by the time i go to bed he is already sleep so i wont feel bad for not getting a cuddle.

I am confused now coz i dont know if i love him anymore, i feel no physical attraction, i have started to see him as enemy that is here to destroy me but i am still here, begs him when he treatens to leave, i think i need serious help.

Sorry if i am not making sense,i am finding it hard to accept that he is who he is and wont change, i have been making excuses for his short coming for years in the hope that he will change someday but after i read this tread i know he wont and thats so sad.

Yesterday I did the "personality disorder quiz" linked from this thread. I came out either High or Moderate on indicators for every single disorder!! Well, I thought, I know I'm not 100% mentally healthy but this can't be right. So I took a more careful look at my replies ... You guessed it.

Where it asks "Have other people called you manipulative?" - Actually, 4 people have. My crazy ex-boss, both my crazy exes, and my crazy flatmate. Projection. Same with at least half of the questions! I answered Yes to some of the psychotic indicators, too - because I did have schizophrenic episodes in my twenties, and I used to think I had 'special insight' - until I started therapy. Could it be anything to do with the fact I'd been surrounded by nutters, who were prone to magical thinking and gaslighting? Well, I do believe it could!

It's rather odd that such a quiz exists: the people I'm thinking of (as 'nutters', heh) would absolutely deny their most pathological traits. While I know they are tormented by deep inner doubt, they do a pretty good job of hiding it from themselves. They'd never click Yes to those questions.

I know it's the madman who says "everybody's out of step, except me" ... but I've been marching with the Mad Army!!

Just because it helps other readers of this thread, here's a short addition to the occasional series of Mad Things I've Done Because Of The Narcissists In My Life:-

1] Painted the tops of the walls with an EYELINER BRUSH, because Alan insisted I couldn't get a clean enough line with a normal decorating brush.

2] Met my future in-laws for the first time wearing a coat over sexy lingerie, as Jon had omitted to tell me they'd be there (I kept the coat on through dinner.)

3] Thought the fact we kept bumping into each other meant we had 'a special connection'. They were stalking me, of course.

4] Repaid charity money I'd raised, that had gone missing, which he told me I "must have" spent!!!

5] Bought him the £1,600 engagement present he demanded. My ring cost him £250.

6] Spent two days searching for a bread knife that my flatmate said I'd taken when I moved out.

7] Made stupidly long, inconvenient journeys to get something they required, exactly, today (every one of them did this.)

8] Believed I am: manipulative; incompetent; dishonest; money-grabbing; always thinking the worst of people; desperate for attention; greedy; lazy; delusional; demanding; self-centred; uncharitable; irrational; temperamental; unreliable ... Projection.

9] Agreed to financial settlements that left them with everything and me with debts.

10] Thought there must be something wrong with me because of the insane crying & screaming fits I would get into ... A well-known response to gaslighting.

Oooh, I could go on .... !