Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

I have a Q for those of you who have older children.
When did they start to realise that their fathers behaviour was not normal/acceptable?

I have an 11yo ds who has told me he doesn't like his Dad. He doesn't want to spend time with him on access visits.
Yesterday I kind of persuaded him to go along on a day out with his Dad and siblings because I wanted to be sure iyswim?

Anyway, I felt bloody guilty all day and on his return asked him how it went. Ds said he had a good time.
I don't know whether his reluctence to go out with his Dad is down to the fact he has Aspergers or not. He doesn't like change and also shows an initial reluctence to go anywhere!
His Dad certainly isn't bothered if my son doesn't want to meet him, of course.

What do you think? Ds isn't really able to articulate his feelings - but could he be 'aware' that his Dad is odd compared to other Dads?

TRM, I can only answer from a different perspective ... I didn't realise my father's behaviour wasn't normal or acceptable until I was 17. By that time, the damage had been done.

Now your kids aren't having to live in an emotional maelstrom, it's likely they do notice how much less stress they feel when dad's not around. On the rare occasions I was allowed to go & stay with friends, I used to kick up an almighty fuss about going home. Everywhere else felt like a holiday by comparison, even school!

But children, having only the parents they know, can't judge whether their parents' behaviour is reasonable. It just is what it is.

Asperger's makes people extremely sensitive to emotional disturbances, although they're prone to misinterpret it. I question whether it's fair to expect any 11-year-old to know how he feels about his father, let alone an Aspie with an unbalanced father.

It's a fragile issue, but I do think you're right to be concerned about it. Presumably nothing bad happens while he's with his father, but he might be drawing odd conclusions from whatever does happen and is said. He's probably unlikely to tell you clearly of any worries about it, because most kids want to protect their mum. Is he seeing a psychologist? Or do you have access to one, who's specialised in Asperger children? It might be more helpful to ask them to check out how he's affected by visits with his father.

My ds is 13.

He has just turned on me, saying that it is all my fault because I am mad.

His stepdad brought him a football last weekend when he came to visit, it popped. DS was so violent in his reaction to this. He went outside throwing stuff and hitting the ground with whatever he could find. I thought maybe transferred grief? But then he said that he was scared that "daddy" would think that he has done it on purpose,he was scared of the reaction...understandable under the circumstances.

I have spoken to the staff at both the schools, not in any kind of depth....just the fact that H is gone, and that ds has suffered quite badly in the final few weeks.

DS is FURIOUS.

It's scary...it's all the same language again. That I am spreading all our private stuff around, that I am mad etc etc.

I am feelimg guilty. The high school have arranfed someone to talk to ds...yet I feel that I am wrong....again?

I want to run aay.

And I am crap a typing.

oh poor you saddest. Tough situation. Obviously your son is angry and upset, but he's probably not a trainee narcissist! He's only directing his anger at the person he knows will always love him. I had no excuse growing up and I said such awful things to my parents. It's horrible when you see your xn's behaviour in your child, but 13 is still a child crossed with a teenager!! I hope that the school have somebody well-trained on hand.

Tell your son in no uncertain terms that you are not mad and it is unacceptable for him to say so. Don't feel guilty. Or try not to.

Is he scared his step dad would be mad with him if he hadn't taken care of the ball? It's only a ball. :-(

Grace I have had my ds in counselling in the past - before the AS was dignosed an I didn't have a clue what was wrong! He wouldn't talk then, and he refuses to attend again now, although I have tried.

My son is very close to me. He will talk to me about his fears of what will happen when he hits pubety and has 'wet dreams'! I have no fear that he would remain silent if something seriously awful was to happen if he was in the company of his Dad. He would ring me, as he has in the past, to come pick him up.
I answered his questions after the split as honestly as I could. Even when my ex told him that 'Mummy had had a boyfriend' when we were married. He has remained loyal to me throughout the whole ghastly aftermath.

But I have never mentioned anything along the lines of PD's. He knows what EA is, and how it was used on me. Will he pick up on the NPD traits himself? Will he realise at 11 that there is a little more 'wrong' with his Dad then simply that he was horrible to his Mum?
I don't expect you to know the answers to these Q's btw - it's just where my mind is at with regard to ds right now.

FTB they do this stuff. The N I knew, in the final throes of the relationship, kept having "crises" that only his soon-to-be-ex partner could possibly solve for him. Big things, little things, culminating in apparent health scares/heart attacks and finally threats of suicide. She eventually stopped feeling responsible for him and said next time he threatened suicide she would call the police and send them round. Funnily enough he seemed to stop feeling suicidal after that.
It's another technique to keep you under their control - you are now seeing it for what it is.

Hiya,
I wanted to know if any of you know if H would be able to take loan under our joint account.

He just treatend me that he would take loan and do a runner.

Will appreciate any information regarding this.

xxx

Extremely well done FTBA, and of course as you say, he doesn't mean it at all. He already said he was going to walk away, didn't he? But as soon as you might let him, suddenly he wants to top himself. And wasn't he sending you happy texts recently about what a lovely life he was having away from you? He just keeps changing the story. No, it's not "normal", but it is textbook!

Argh, it's done it again. I reply to what appears to be the last message in a thread, only to find there's a missing pageful somewhere which pops up after I've posted. Weird stuff.

Gosh Saddest, that's awful... I haven't anything to add to the advice given, just want to emphasise, be there for him but give him firm, reasonable boundaries. You are not guilty of anything. Children are conditioned to learning things from their parents; yours is currently learning some very bad things from his stepdad and it will be incredibly difficult, but possible, to overcome the wrong training. Good luck, and get all the help you can.

sweetexpectation, I think he could. Phone the bank now and tell them that he has threatened this and not to authorise any loans. It will be confidential on your record and then I think if they made a loan you would not be liable.

When I was leaving my ex, I phoned the bank and other organisations and (took courage to do this) said I was experiencing domestic abuse, I wanted it recorded on my file and it had to be kept confidential. In retrospect I am extremely glad I did it, it made me feel a bit safer and months later I found out that he had been stalking me for hospital appointments, but because I had done this they took more precautions than normal.

maybe send a letter to your bank and keep a copy of the letter too....

I know it's not the done thing to watch Jeremy Kyle (what can I say, I'm still a drama addict) - but did anyone see yesterday's? There was a heartbreakingly messed-up, abused young woman with her weed-addicted partner. He loved her but he terrified her ... his words belied his actions ... he said, tapping his head, "I'm locked away in here." Oof! It was painful. FTB, I thought of you throughout - and passionately hope you will stay a step ahead of that girl, and stay free.

Saddest,
It is not 'too late' for your ds 13. Try simple boundaries, with stated consequences (like removal of electronics/games-if he ups the ante know where the master electric switch is and throw the whole house off).

Do not yell. No name calling, no comparing him to step-dad. Tell him it is important for him to be able to behave (in a gentleman like way) even when he is mad/angry/sad as well as jubiliant/celebration. Point out stupid behavior you see on the news, just for conversation, "that guy could have handled it differently, no doubt".

Good luck, this does take back-bone and time and don't give up. If you feel you said something out of line and hurtful, then say you are sorry and you need some practice too. At any rate, acknowledge it-people do slip up...show that it can be resolved and then things move on without the tense, stomach knot for hours/days on end.

Forthebestagain,
Well, I'd tell him to do 'it' outside and to try not to make too much of a mess.
Dismissiveness it the only way forward with this circumstance coming from an abusive adult, imho. I would always take a suicidal comment seriously from anyone under 22-24 or so. But from an EAer, it is clearly a manipulation tactic.

Silence is best.

How is your new hobby going?

It is a big leap, a bold stroke for the beauty, health, fresh air for the rest of your life. Courage and focus. What you are doing is valid and clearly the right thing to do.

I agree with the advice about contacting the bank. They have seen this kind of situation before -- mine had anyway when I did this. Sweetexpectation, how about setting up an account just for yourself too, and putting spare cash into it on a regular basis?

FTBA -- WOW, well done!!! The hints about being at the edge are designed to make you run to the rescue. Ignore, ignore, ignore. If you think there's a chance he will do himself some harm, and especially if you think he'll do you some harm, call the police. They will take him to an A&E for assessment if you call and tell them he has been mentioning suicide and they think it's credible. (The arrival of the police one night straightened out my ex after he had called three local suicide helplines (apparently they flagged callers and kept in touch with each other and when he hit the magic number 3 they notified the local police) He didn't do that again.)

Saddest keep lines of communication wide open with your DS. The best thing to do is to talk and listen as much as you can, and always point out to him that there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of dealing with situations; ask him to remember that he has choices when things go wrong and he feels fear, anger, disappointment, etc. It can be very hard for boys to admit to feeling fear, and maybe this is at the bottom of his reaction to you getting in touch with the school fear of being seen as hobbled or lame in some way, not able to deal with his own life. Maybe you could emphasise the teamwork aspect of the school's approach and that you're all on the same team, you, the DS and the teachers or counsellors they have. Your DS is old enough to have done some observation and thinking about home life and is acting out a bit of general unhappiness in all likelihood, but will probably respond to your boundaries and your obvious care and love.

Teens can seem to be turning into little copies of their N parents, but that's because Ns behave like the worst of teens most of the time, or big overgrown 2 year olds. In the case of most teens, they grow out of it because loving mature adults keep at them and guide them to less self-absorbed and impulsive ways of approaching life.

sweetexpectatn - he can take out a loan in HIS name but have the pauments going out of the joint account - my exP ahs done this, singed up a loan from ikea and the pyaments go out of joint account. bank said this was allowable as joint account only requires one signature - however the loan is in only HIS name so if payments default will behis look out.

you would BOTH ahve ot sign if was loan to both of you but he could probably take a loan in his name on the back of the joint account...

i hope you have your own account and have your own money... frabnkly if he is threatening to leave then let him... money is only money you will deal with it later.

He gave me a hug and said sorry this morning. What a treasure. We spoke ,calmly, and I said that I knew that he was angry, and that we all are. There are other, better ways. Like hurling his basket ball around the back garden, or kicking a ball against the wall. Although he kicked it so hard it brough down the guttering and snapped the weatherboard. That's ok, that can be repaired.

I also said that his teachers wanted to help because they really like him, he'a lovely, kind, gentle boy.

He has been dumped on by two "dad's". now. My heart beaks for him, it really does. H was the model father for the first few years...in fact till last summer when he went weird and all this strange behaviour started in earnest.

Thank you for your advice and ongoing support.

I had nightmares in my nightmares last night, only to wake to find my life is one right now.

FTBA/achilelstortoise -

"just so shocking that any man could threaten just to disappear and not see his children.
"

have heard this many times from my exP.

at various points - "it is all or nothing then" "if we cant live together there is no point"

"well i am leaving to go live in xxx and you will never see me again"

thru to the "i will kill myself then" suicide threat.

it is text book.

a few months would go by - and the same lines come up again. most recent was at xmas when he was in a depressed mood.

FTBA - listen teo the advice: jsut say no. dont engage with him. there is nothing to gain.

tell yourself each time - "dont engage"

you did right thing saying you wont meet - and then not replying to his repsonse. well done!!

only meet in neutral place if you need to discuss anything finance children etc.

Thank you all for your advice, i will contact the bank on monday and let them know.

Suicide threats are horrific , although somehow became normal in my house. Sadly my dcs would regularly hear this too , my biggest regret is not phoning the police , i doubt he would have said it again had he had to explain himself to the police . Instead it went on for a long time.

I recalled something the other day , stinker would always look directly at me when talking, but ALWAYS had tiny little pupils giving him a birdy eye look. Most peoples change in certain circumstances but his never did.

It has now been 5 days since my ex h has tried to engage with me. 5 days since he posted on my other thread spitting venom.
It is earily silent here....no texts, no emails, no hand delivered notes.

Well this is a bit of a first.

He is either sooo furious mad with me that he is really teaching me a lesson this time.....or that's it - I have been cut off!
How will I know for sure?!! The suspense is killing me - not!

They love these power games dont they. Stinker continued to play these games despite having found a replacement within days .( this seems to be a common theme too ) Any conversation / contact with him was painfull even if he was being nice /normal.
The longer i didnt see / talk to him for the better i felt.
Within weeks i went from dreaming about him, thinking about him the minuite i woke up to occasionally thinking about the situation during the day .

Well done re 5 days. Have you thought about keeping a journal ? I found it really usefull to re read my entries .

Enjoy the peace TRM... I hope it lasts. I think he's winding down now... I think he's about to switch persona, from vociferous and wronged x, to stoic and martyred x, bravely soldiering on in silence. It's nauseating, that's where my x is at, but it's easier than the preceding rantings.

I am not going on that RC night out tonight btw. My babysitters bailed. Better offer. But I am half disappointed and half glad I have an excuse! I was going to make myself go and push out the boundaries of my comfort zone. Next time...... really.

Dignified, I wish my x would find a replacement. He is good looking, tall, wealthy, educated, he's had no trouble 'pulling' people but as soon as they hear one of his bitter misogynist comments or he tells them how crazy I am, they probably see the signs I stupidly ignored. That's what I'm guessing anyway. But if I knew he had another relationship, although I'd pity her obviously, I'd almost be able to have a conversation with him about arrangements for children/visits, if absolutely necessary. I wouldn't seek a conversation with him out, ever. I also feel like a recovering addict, it is 6 months since I spoke to him or saw him. Before that, it was about 16 months. I'm looking to up it to 17 months now. I'm so lucky that I can do that I know.

This is my ex all over. I thought he was just a plain run of the mill abuser. He turned up at 11 last night to pick the DC's up, I was on the phone nagging him to hurry up as they were falling asleep. He said he was making money and unless I was going to give him money I'd just have to deal with it. No thought that his children were tired. It's not the first time either. And I couldn't cancel because they wanted to go and I didn't want a scene with him

Junglist1, there's a lot to be said for having a written and court approved visitation/custody agreement where times and other details are spelled out to the nth detail. I had to do this with my ex, and it has helped to civilise him somewhat with regard to contact with me and doing things at the right time, leaving him no wiggle room. I have a document that is 10 pages long that the court signed off on. We hammered it out in court-ordered mediation.