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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 18/03/2010 10:24

autumnlight, that's a really scary example of madness, a completely skewed vision of the world. Of course there is no way you have ruined his life. He would seem to have parcelled up all the evils in his life and dumped them in one container - you! - which he can then conveniently destroy so his life will be as perfect as it should be. Only, of course, he doesn't dare really destroy you because then there would be no-one to blame when things aren't perfect, as somewhere inside he still realises they won't be. That's why he begged to come back when you were apart before. He has to have you there, as a focus for all the hate and frustration in his life. What an utterly awful situation for any human being to be in, to be demonised through absolutely no fault of your own, just because you're there. And it is dangerous too, because one day he may lose sight of the fact he needs you and do something kind of, shall we say, excessive. He wouldn't be sorry afterwards, because he doesn't recognise the concept of sorrow nor yet of regret, but he would probably feel something was missing, for as long as it took him to find another scapegoat. Maybe he can blame the prison therapist.

You really do have to get out of there, sweetie. You're not just living with a man, you're living with a whole parcel of demons. It might be convenient for him to blame you for everything but it isn't even good for him, let alone everyone else involved. Nobody is getting anything good out of this.

Take a deep breath, and start running. You're nearly there. You can do it very soon. Just a little more strength and then - wham! Freedom! And you'll wonder why you ever put up with it for so long.

Anniegetyourgun · 18/03/2010 11:10

I'm sorry, looking back at what I've said there, it's come over a bit apocalyptic and perhaps, knowing him, you are confident it would never come to the worst scenario. It's just that I find it totally chilling to hear anyone directing so much unbridled venom at another person for crimes that are all in their head. Most of us would reserve it for someone who had murdered a child, if we were capable of even feeling that much anger unmixed with any pity or search for reasons. This is presumably a professional man, one who any one of us might have come across in the normal course of business, who is thinking such awful, mad thoughts and going home to trample all over his wife, basically because he can. There are people around who are like this and most of us will never know. We might even think they are nice. Horrifying...

saddest · 18/03/2010 11:44

Yes Venom.

It's that that I just don't get. I have been cast in the role of demon. Other people also don't see the supposed, "real me". That term used by my "mother" as well as h.

That's what seemed to piss him off the most. That people like me. It was the therapist I saw that said that people want to be my friend, and she's right! They do. So unless there is some hidden away dark aspect of me that I keep hidden, that will continue and grow.

Oh I forgot.....there is a dark venomous side to me....him.

And when I have moments of despairing grief for the relationship I fantasised about, I remember that he had started to get physical....not with me but with ds....it was only ever a matter of time before it was me.

What kind of loser pushes a teenage boy around. What kind of pitifully shite parent will do NOTHING to address the issues and keep the family growing and healthy and happy. What kind of father has no concept of the misery he has caused to those who loved him the most?

The more time spent with normal people....whether here or in RL the better...that's why they cut us off.....to make weird seem normal.

Unlikelyamazonian · 18/03/2010 14:30

apropos of nothing, I just remembered something insane but amusing this morning: when i found out I was pregnant I was totally dumbstruck and overjoyed (I was 43 and had failed to conceive for years)

I did the test three times. It was a Sunday morning. When it came up positive for the third time I rang my exH to tell him the news (he was away for the weekend)

he sent me a text afterwards sayi8ng this:

'Congratulations. You are going to have a baby.'

I mean, ffs how strange is that?

I then rang my mother N (no longer in contact but we were at the time) and she said 'How lovely dear. We are going to Church. Must run...'

These Ns have no idea how to react because they have no normal feelings

The Congratulations text makes me laugh now. It's like I had a won a volvo in a GMTV competition or something.

QueenofWhatever · 18/03/2010 14:33

Just catching up. mirium and the real me - you have both described my ex and my ex life perfectly. It's still quite overwhelming to look back on it now I'm in the aftermath. I think it will take a long time for all the shockwaves to subside.

I felt so reassured and understood when my therapist described him as a 'very troubled and damaged man'. It felt like validation.

mathanxiety · 18/03/2010 14:35

FTBA, this is not just about the weed. Somewhere deep inside, you know it's about the big picture, the total negativity of the whole relationship, the fact that you are getting absolutely nothing out of it. You know there's nothing good in his heart for you. Listen to that inner voice of yours that's trying to save you. He is the one who deserves to be called pathetic, not you. As AchillesTortoise says, he is responsible for whatever he chooses, not you (and it's not a question of weed or not).

It's hard to grieve for the dream that's lost. FTBA, be patient and kind to yourself in your thoughts. You need to be on your side -- don't heckle yourself.

Regarding arguing -- the times I tried to make my ex listen to reason and accept that my response to his treatment of me was valid were the times I came closest to really losing it. I would shake for days afterwards. I usually came away feeling as if I had been rolled over by a tank. In the end, I didn't even have to say anything for him to go at me with all guns blazing. He would accuse me of having 'set my jaw' in a certain hostile way, or having the wrong sort of facial expression while he was raging at me. As if he could read my thoughts or as if I was telling him something he didn't like just by looking at him some way he noticed. And I thought I was the one who was going crazy. That's what extreme stress will do to you, though.

ItsGraceAgain · 18/03/2010 14:46

< He would accuse me of having 'set my jaw' >
Oh my god, Math! X just had to say "You're sticking your chin out" and I'd instantly go into defence mode!

How on earth did he manage that??!!

mathanxiety · 18/03/2010 14:51

Grace, it was the exact opposite of openness and good lines of communication. I felt completely blanked out. No right to have even a facial expression??????????

Forthebestagain · 18/03/2010 14:52

Math yes he does do that. I am the shouter, I am the screamer, he stays perfectly calm during arguments and I end up looking like some sort of fish wife !! I am usually so incredulous that he has managed to turn things round.

He sent me a couple of texts today saying that he love dme and always would. He said he was sorry for " turning his best friend against him" he also said that as we are never going to agree about the weed smoking and other things it would be better if he just walked away. He has somewhere he can go but doesnt want to ever see me again as it will be too difficult.

I felt really sad and panicked and I text him back asking him to talk !!!!!!!!!!!! he said " fine phone me tonight but really FTBA why are you stringing this along, you dont love me anymore "

What am I doing ?? Why am I doing this ?? The thought of him coming home isnt something that I want so why when he suggestes he makes it final do I react like that ?? Now I have bloody arranged for him to come around what the hell are we going to talk about. Im not being fair to him am I. I feel like I am a bit mad. Does it mean I love him if I am afraid to let him go ? Or am I panicking becuase once he is gone my security rope has gone ?
I honestly dont know my own mind anymore...

ItsGraceAgain · 18/03/2010 15:03

Don't do it, FTBA. Cancel. Just send a text, "Changed my mind, don't come." Delete any replies and turn your phone off. Go out tonight, take the kids somewhere.

MarshaMallow · 18/03/2010 15:06

He's pushing your 'rescuer' buttons FTBA....he's playing the victim and emotionally blackmailing you through your compassion and sympathy emotions.

You feel sorry for him and want to fix him ... a role that has become familiar to you...it has become an automatic response, so has the panic reaction to the thought of him leaving. He has conditioned you to believe you will never survive without him, somewhere inside you believe this still - your panicking is about YOUR lack of belief in your ability to survive without him.

If you don't want to talk to him, tell him, don't meet up just because he knows which buttons to push to manipulate you into doing something you instinctively don't want to do.

If on the other hand you really do want to talk then let the meeting happen.....this all has to be done on your terms and not because he managed to push your buttons.

ItsGraceAgain · 18/03/2010 15:10

He's "hoovering."
www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/AbusiveCycle.html

Unlikelyamazonian · 18/03/2010 15:10

FTB this is mind-games pure and simple. I have been where you are. MyexH said to me in the throes of leaving fopr good...'I love you and always will. I am poison to everybody and the best thing for me to do would just be to disappear. I am sorry for not being the man you needed or wanted. I could not bear to just see the dc at weekends and be a 'weekend dad' as it would destroy me therefore it's best if I just go.'

It is a load of bloody clap-trap and it is his insanity talking.

I too begged him to talk - to come back and talk. He did a right proper number on me!. Ok so you have asked him to come tonight.

Welldo this: change your mind

It is number 12 in the Women's Aid Bill of Rights:
"I have the right tow grow and chnge and that includes changing my mind."

get back to him now and say 'Actually, I have changed my mind. I don't want to talk with you. There is nothing to talk about.'

Then do not respond to any verbal you get back from him.

Unlikelyamazonian · 18/03/2010 15:12

Itsgrace and Marsha we are singing from the same song sheet!

mathanxiety · 18/03/2010 15:16

FTBA, your reaction is not any indication that you love him. There's nothing wrong with being afraid to let him go. The thought of finality and the fear of it is what he is counting on though. He is playing with your mind with all this talk of NEVER, and FOREVER, etc. He will be back, like a bad smell. Sooner or later, he will start ruminating on his entitlement regarding the children, and he will be back to bother you. There's no such thing as final, with children, but there can be a relationship that doesn't damage you after a split. FTBA, all you need to get a bit of strength is time without him, time when you can do all the little things like having a cuppa, going out to the shops without having to explain yourself. You will feel yourself lighter as the constant anxiety slips off your shoulders. Unloading all that deadweight will free up so much headspace and heartspace, you'll be amazed at the room you have there for everyone else and everything else that's important in your life.

You could always text him to say you've changed your mind, and you don't think there's any more to talk about, and you wish him all the best for the future? If he takes you up on your offer to talk, or is he insists and you don't feel you have any choice, go somewhere neutral like a cafe or some public spot. It's important to keep him out of your home, off your turf. Tell him yes, you think it's for the best (!) that you split, it's regrettable in many ways, blah blah, hope he'll be happy. If he changes his tune, be firmly neutral, or stick to the firm but future-looking, 'No, I think it's for the best that we draw a line under this.'

I agree with the advice not to accept any more lifts from him. You are under no obligation to dance to any of his tunes. You don't owe him any fairness, though it's to your credit that you want to be fair. It speaks volumes about your decency and the kind of good person that you are. Be fair to yourself too. You owe yourself that honour more than you owe him. Do what you are able to do. Keep your own overall best interests to the fore. He does not have your best interests in mind. Ever.

Sometimes it helps to get an image in your mind of the worst case scenario. What's the worst thing that could happen, when it's all boiled down? Try to write it down, whatever bad things you can think of. Then try to write down the things you have going for you -- You have a job and you don't need him for money. You have a home. Your DCs are used to your work and childcare routine and they won't be upset as they might be if you had to start a job upon separation. You are used to handling your family and job responsibilities and the house stuff all by yourself after all this time. When you can see that the practicalities are in place, try to see the emotional benefits. You can still have a dream of a great life, with him out of the day-to-day picture.

MarshaMallow · 18/03/2010 15:17

It seems that way Unlikelyamazonian.

I don't usually post in this thread as my 'problem' person is my sister and this thread seems to deal with mainly ExP's but the behaviours seem to be the same regardless of sex or relationship to you.

Forthebestagain · 18/03/2010 15:21

OH.MY.GOD.......
Grace I just read that whole page. The four stages are my life !! The flashpoint, the retribution, the reflection and then the regression !! Thats EXACTLY the pattern we follow. I have even found myself thinking " oh is it so bad ? Its only weed ? Does it really matter he doesnt work etc etc, the kids DO love him " omg its so scary. I am so embarrasingly text book.

You all give me such good advice and I know I should phone/text and say dont meet me, but I wont.
And its this that is making me cry. Why wont I ??????? What will it take to make me make this break ?? Its not fair on anyone!!!

Forthebestagain · 18/03/2010 15:31

Thank you math. That was really helpful actually. You are right. I dont have other womens reasons for needing to stay with my OH ( which actually makes me even more pathetic ). I have my home, pay all the bills a fulltime responsible job, childcare in place and the dc are used to ME doing everything. In actual fact DD1 has told me twice she prefers he isnt here as she can eat cereal on the sofa now !!!!!!

I should make a list. WHY do I want him around ? We dont agree on anything ? We dont liek the same music, films, t.v programme, activities, he doesnt drink , I do, he gets stoned every night, I dont . Its pointless. He wants sex ALL THE TIME !! I dont :0(

I will have a good long think on my way home tonight. Thank you all so much

mathanxiety · 18/03/2010 16:23

Now just stop thinking of yourself as pathetic. You've been pummeled by this man for years and none of what you're dealing with was fair for you. You have been doing the very best you could for all that time. You've held down a job and brought your dear children into the world, raised them and taken care of them and sheltered them from the P and his bad influence as best you could. You have done great, great things under circumstances that have been extreme and challenging. Hold your head high and be generous to yourself.

If you really can't say the meeting is off, do the compromise and meet at a place of your choice, then fob him off. Telling him there's no future for the relationship doesn't have to be something dramatic or hurtful towards him. No matter how it's managed, he is responsible for what he chooses to do after the shoe drops. He is responsible for his reaction and response to what you say. You have no obligation to spare him from facing the next day, and when all of this is ever, you will possibly be surprised at how quickly he lands on his feet, pulls up his big boy pants and gets on with his life.

Maggie00 · 18/03/2010 16:27

I read that 'out of the fog' link too, and it is shocking that 'the victim' is also so text book in her reactions.

The second and final time I left, he promised all of the things I'd presented as ultimata the first time around. Luckily I didn't fall for it twice. I knew that it'd be about five days before he forgot to be nice (ish).

Forthebestagain I guess the reason you don't just boot him out on his ear is because he is so far under your skin that if you anger him by calling time on the relationship, his anger and his contempt for you will make you extremely upset and anxious. It'll be like being caught in the headlights of his judgment. That is like being under a microscope.

There's no way around that I think. Until you have disconnected from the narcissist, knowing they are angry with you is going to make you anxious. You have to take a deep breath and just make the break anyway, because he's nearly always disappointed and angry with you anyway isn't he?.

Maggie00 · 18/03/2010 16:28

ps my x would also tell me I had that miserable face on again. It was just my bone structure. I could do nothing about my face.

mathanxiety · 18/03/2010 16:41

Very good point Maggie -- FTBA, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. In other words, you can't come out in front with this man no matter what you choose to do. He will always find something to hate you for.

Forthebestagain · 18/03/2010 17:59

I just text him and told him that actually I am sorry but I feel tired from work and can we not meet tonight afterall. I need an early night and some sleep.
He text back that he is going to the GP tommorrow and is going to ask to be " locked up " as he is close to the edge. Says he has lost everything and there is no point anymore.

I havent replied. Feel horrendously guilty but actually not surprised by that response. He probably does feel bad but thats my cue to change my mind isnt it. Normal people dont say things like that do they ??

Maggie00 · 18/03/2010 18:11

He wants you to worry about him all night long. I bet he has a curry and watches tv and is fine. Close to the edge...... hmmmmmm.

Don't reply.

dignified · 18/03/2010 18:57

Dont fall for it ftb, like maggie says he,ll be having a curry and not thinking one bit about you. I kept stinker around for way too long for fear of suicide and plus i knew the dcs would pay, that he would dump them. Hes in the processing of dumping now , slowly but sureley, and although they hurt and its upsetting sometimes, there really is no point them having a bogus relationship with him. Theyve seen what ive seen . And whether you split or stay together, they will eventually know what you know . Mine have recovered , they know now its not normal behaviour, i didnt want them to grow up thinking it was .

I often asked myself i would have dropped them off with a childminders / nursery / freind , where someone was screaming abuse, or so unstable they were threatening suicide. Of course i wouldnt, but yet they experienced it here, in their home where they should feel safe. What a sad damaging example of men , fathers and marriage .

Never mind what he might or might not do tomorrow , what are YOUR plans for tomorrow ?
And No, its not a normal response from him.