Please help a very sad and confused new dad

[LostBoy]

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

Well said TheYoungVisitor!

"Please just let me get this straight I dont have a problem with co sleeping if it works but now because of the co sleeping neither mother or baby are sleeping properly."

You see I don't think you understand how you are coming across and perhaps how you might be coming across to your wife.

You are not your wife and you are not your baby. Why are you so sure you are the only one who knows what "works" for them and what counts as "sleeping properly"? Your wife obviously really wanted to co-sleep - perhaps despite waking more often it just feels more right and she feels more rested because it's less palaver. Perhaps she is feeling irritated by you and just doesn't want night feeds to always involve you. Yes it may be that she has PND and that's a factor, but if you want to start to understand how she feels and have really empathy then you need to let go of this certainty that you know what it best. Try to open your mind a bit more to what it has been like for her - I don't mean that in a harsh way, I just don't think you're quite there yet with really developing the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

LostBoy - the reason that some posters are questioning you is that there have been some male posters using mumsnet to get at their partners when in the middle of separation. There was one fairly recently where people thought that he sounded controlling, it transpired that sure enough his wife was a regular and he was posting so she'd read it. So forgive the suspicion, but we've had our fingers burnt.

Lostboy, you are not going to get very far if you start picking on individual posters who have responded in a way you don't like. Don't pick fights with us.

Take time to read and process the thread you have started. You might find it very useful.

You don't have to convince everybody of your righteousness.

And maybe, just maybe, you could have handled things better,after all, none of us are perfect.

And please don't feel that people are "getting" at you. They are trying to show you how things might look from your wife's perspective.

She is obviously very angry and hurt. Why? You don't just wake up one morning and think "I know, I'll massively hurt my caring husband and make life a whole lot harder for myself into the bargain."

People are trying to explain what might be at the route of her actions. You don't have to agree with their portrayal of your actions - but they aren't being malicious - they are trying to get you to question your own role in this instead of assuming that you are the helpless victim.

You can't fix your wife's PND, but maybe you can support her through this and achieve a reconciliation, and the key to this might be trying to understand where she is coming from.

"Mathanxeity you truly have the rare talent to find the negative in everything and for that I congratulate you."

I also think your tone here is a warning sign about what you could possibly be like to live with at times. Again, if you really care about your wife's feelings and what might have been going on from her point of view, then you need to have the humility to listen to what people are suggesting, and even if it hurts, consider what people are trying to tell you about what she could have been experiencing. Mathanxiety has actually been quite measured and careful with her suggestions. Biting sarcasm and cuttingness are not helpful here and they certainly won't be constructive if you use them in your relationship.

Thank you all for all your advice and opinions I have read all of them and will continue to do so. I appreciate the fact that you have taken the time to read and respond to my post even you math, sorry for that last comment it was a bit childish.
madamedefarge I agree entirely with what you said.

And another top tip, don't try and soft soap us....

what you said to Math was really aggressive...and no amount of sweet talking will make me forget that snapshot of your real personality behind all the meeky meeky poor 'ol me stuff.

I'm afraid to me it sounds like you have been bullying to your dw, sure of being in the right, and have blamed her pnd instead of looking at your behaviour that has pushed her to the edge. Good on her for telling you to sling your hook.

You need to do some serious work on yourself and not blame pnd for all that is wrong with your relationship at the moment. Its an easy cop out.

there ya go.

Madame de Farge, but mathanxiety has neither been reasoned nor fair, but came up with quote a lot of aggressive accusatory bullying BS herself. I think it's a bit off to give lostboy a kicking for having defended himself.

as a co-sleeper, I just want to add in that what Kalo12 said is so true - but the important thing about co-sleeping is that you don't really have to fully wake up to deal with anything. Yes, DS used to wake for milk a few times in the night at that age, more than he had - but I barely needed to wake up to feed him and when he'd finished we both just went back to sleep. This was a lot less disturbing than having to go to his cot (DH never woke up and wasn't in the vicinity anyway) and fetch him and then return him to the cot after. He always used to go straight off to sleep when we co-slept whereas if I tried to put him back in the cot it was about 50:50 that he would stay asleep.

Just some extra info on why your DW might have felt it was more beneficial to keep co-sleeping regardless of your opinion on the matter - being inside the situation rather than on the edge of it does make a big difference to perception.

I'm disappointed it wasn't a 14-year-old troll.

Well probably not.

Ditto what WidowWadman said.

Just knew the way this thread was going to go. Which is a real shame.

Lostboy, I hope - amongst all the aggression towards you on here - that you can pull out some of the really good advice given and find a way to reconcile the problems with your wife.

Just as an aside, surely co-sleeping can only truly be successful if all people involved (mother, father, baby) are happy and comfortable with the arrangement? Or is it just fuck whatever the father thinks?

The man haters are on top form tonight! Go rant and scream and chuck the baby wipes across the room - you need to let go that aggression

So, you actually forced a breastfeeding mother and baby apart at night?

You took it upon yourself to remove a sleeping baby away from her mother and place her in the cot? So that your wife had to wake up, walk across the floor to get the baby next time she woke up, and carry her back, and then settle in to breastfeed, rather than just get her breast out?

Shame on you.

I totally agree with mathanxiety on this thread. You sound very manipulative.

Good on your wife for spotting this so early on.

Rindercella you've certainly been on MN long enough to know that it is indeed "fuck" whatever the father thinks> and double standards all the way in terms of advice given to men versus women....

Well said WidowWadman. I'm not feeling terribly proud to be a woman following this thread and think I will go and take a cleansing shower.

The not co-sleeping was working for these guys until the child became ill and the DW seemingly became over anxious. Perhaps at that point the proper solution was to commence co-sleeping - perhaps it was not. Who knows> But like so many issues on MN (working mothers, bf, co-sleeping the know-it-alls have nothing but contempt for anyone who does not immediately conform to certain views).

Lost Boy - I hope you manage to work things out with your DW but FWIW at the moment I would concentrate on working out proper access to your DD with legal advice if necessary and give your wife the space she needs to work out her problems in her own way and time (hopefully with appropriate counselling and medical assistance) whatever resolution that brings in terms of her feelings towards you.

Sorry, but I really cannot agree with the majority of opinions here. I have seen no manipulative actions from the OP at all. Yes, he's got a little stressed, but then he has a small baby and serious problems in his relationship. Would everyone really be responding this way if it were a woman who posted?

Lostboy, perhaps given that your wife is breastfeeding and therefore tied to the baby's schedule, you could ask her what she would like you to do? It sounds as if she is very keen on co-sleeping, so perhaps you could give her the chance to have a long nap mid-day, or after you get in from work? Would that be possible?

I think the man haters are the real trolls

Now, I may be barking up the wrong tree but have been listening to dh's bf whose wife had bad pnd after their 2nd child and he was very much like you, desperate to fix things and "put things right" which he felt meant taking charge. Maybe you need to stop trying to "fix" things - marriage, the co-sleeping, the pnd - because maybe you actually can't, and your well-meaning intention to sort things out could well be a source of resentment.

When you visit, are you able to just be? What I mean is, can you enjoy dd? Be friendly and undemanding company without any agenda, and not offer any advice? And if she asks for assistance, "Yes, no worries" no matter whatever it is or what you privately might think?

You might then get to a point where you can ask your wife, "How are you feeling today?" and to listen sympathetically and with understanding, again without offering advice, unless it's explicitly sought and it's offered in a way that she can feel she can accept it?

like I said, I might be barking up the wrong tree but some of your post resonated.

Oh FGS, "man haters"?! Where? People who disagree with the OP's behaviour, views or actions are 'man haters'?

By that rote, you are also implying the OP himself is a 'woman hater' for disagreeing with his DW's views and wishes?

He didn't remove a sleeping baby from its mother so that she had to keep getting the baby back. He has already said he was fetching the baby for her feeds, doing all the nappy changing and settling her back afterwards.

Probably getting up and going to work the next day after broken nights as well.

OP - you wife sounds very unstable, and is behaving in an abusive way towards you. There are a few suggestions on here which may help (if you can sift out the screaming harpy man-haters!). But if things cannot be repaired, seek legal advice, ensure that your wife does not continue to obstruct your access to your child because it is YOUR CHILD'S right to be parented by you too.

Heated I think you make a very good point. DH and I were discussing the difference between me talking to him about any problems I have versus talking to some of my gf's about the same problems and the difference is that he offers solutions whereas they offer sympathy. Sometimes the solutions are not what you most need and I think that difference is quite a male v female thing in terms of approach.

Interesting how many women refer to a baby as 'mine'. Doesn't it have two parents?