Please help a very sad and confused new dad

[LostBoy]

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

Widow - if the mother is resonsible for the child and wants to cosleep and it's safe for the child, then she's right, for her child.

Lostboy - sounds a horrible situation but as you say she does have pnd. I didn't suffer pnd but I felt my dh was very controlling upon becoming a dad and I felt very 'watched' - he didn't help at all and my view was that if you're not going to help, then bugger off so I can get on and do it myself.

We too have a small bed dh slept in another room - would you not find it better to sleep on the sofa?

Seriously, have you never ever started to change your baby and only then realised that the wipes weren't to hand?

"By WidowWadman Sun 21-Feb-10 20:48:39
How is it actually, that it is assumed that the person in favour of co-sleeping is always right?"

They aren't - but I do think that the person who is getting up in the night to do most of the feeds and settlings has more rights to decide.

Lostboy - be very, very honest - how often are you getting up in the night to feed and settle your child? Is it generally you who wakes up first when your child cries, or your wife?

You say you aren't getting as much sleep with your child in the bed - is it possible you mean that YOU aren't getting as much sleep but that for your wife, it's easier than getting up 8 times a night to resettle the baby while you snore?

I don't mean to imply you are lazy or uncaring - but from talking to friends I know it's almost invariably the case that the mother wakes first and does most of the settling. My DH quite often wakes in the morning and asks "Did the baby sleep through?" only for me to say "No, he woke four times." He's not an uncaring Dad, he just doesn't wake up easily.

While I really sympathise with your situation, which sounds horrible, your post sounds very focussed on you getting things back to the way you feel they shoudl be - rather than trying to find a new balance which suits you all. And you may need to accept that while your wife has PND, that balance may be hard to find and may require sacrifices to achieve.

Dragon, I wasn't assuming the OP was a troll at all, just explaining to him why some other people were. Because his first post has some things in common with them.

I actually think it's more likely that he has a limited understanding of how to actually be helpful and supportive in this situation - the wipes is a very clear example - and that what he saw as six months of it all going swimmingly was actually 6 months of his wife getting very frustrated and worn down.

However, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's entirely blameless and this is a serious PND issue.

Of course it could be a combination.

But it is important for you to think about these issues Lostboy and think about how you have been supporting your wife and if you have really understood her and her needs. Have you tried asking her how she would like to to behave and what she needs from you. Have you honestly given some thought to whether you could be at fault in any ways? Enjoying having a baby and feeling love for your wife is not the same as being useful and supportive in the ways that she needs.

My wife breastfeeds our daughter and since her birth the arrangement has been she puts the food in and i take it out(change the nappies.
Yes my wife said that the babys nappy needed changing and asked me to do it,
So i took her to the nappy changing mat on the bedroom floor where I always change her and all the stuff is and i didnt notice the wipes were'nt there untill i needed one
however i dont feel i need to justify myself here

FWIW I'm more or less co-sleeping with ds2. Didn't with dd or ds1. While I'm not getting as much sleep as I would like, it's still a million times better than it was with the older 2. We have huge bed, but dh is still currently sleeping in spare room, just because is more comfortable all-round and means he is more at hand with older children and can get better rest with a view to going to work in the morning. It will change when ds2 is a bit older and more reliably sleepy at night, but at the moment it works.

oh gosh! has no one else ever sat down to clean a nappy and forgotten the wipes before! ever! seriously give him a break

i am not so good at putting myself across properly but can i just say that i agree with what tanga has been saying

i think its also very important to keep up a relationship with your daughter lostboy, if you lose it now it will be harder to bond again and rebuild, so if this carrys on i suggest you seek legal advice about access. Good luck

giveitago - so his suggestion that sleep might be disturbed for all 3 of them, making it worse, is always wrong, because mummy is always right, no matter how sleep deprived or depressed she is?

I'm asking this as someone who brought the child over into our bed in the night for a long time, as I felt this was the only way I could catch at least some sleep. I let my husband try to put her back to sleep when she woke, sans breast milk or owt, convinced that he'd give in soon and would bring her over, too. 3 nights later she slept through...

I don't quite get why fathers should have to back out of these decisions, or even leave the bedroom? Yes, they're not full of hormones, but apart from that, they're as much a parent as the mother is, and should have the same right to an opinion and to making decisions on how the child is parented.

I don't think you really believe your wife's feelings count as much as yours if your feelings are backed up by facts, such as the 'fact' that the bed is too small for three, the 'fact' that sleeping in the cot is a backward step (back from what? Is there a goal here?), and especially your choice of the word 'explaining' in regard to those 'facts'.

The fact that aspects of baby care are couched in terms of 'what is best for our child' suggests to me that there is a battle of wills going on here, with a lot of theories held by you, and a good deal of 'explaining' by you that your wife has somehow taken up the wrong way.

If this is not an exercise in points scoring, or case-building, could you please tear up your list of unreasonable things your wife has done and said and stop trotting them out? If you really want some insight into what your wife is going through, go back to Relate and listen to her. After she has recovered from PND.

Christ alive, I cannot believe some people are actually questioning whether the father asked permission to change the baby's nappy! And are critical of him for not actually having the baby wipes right next to him.

Jesus. A baby with a loving father who realises when its nappy needs changing and gets on and does it, is being a far better parent at that moment in time than a parent who screams and goes off on one because the fucking baby wipes are a few feet away.

I am truly shocked by some of the responses on here, which indicate that some people really have trouble viewing women and men as equals, and clearly think that a mentally unstable woman aggressively ranting about baby wipes is providing better parenting than a loving and gentle father.

so if your wife is bfing, does that mean she's waking up every single time the baby wakes and having to do all the feeding?

Sorry, then yes I do think she absolutely gets to decide about the co-sleeping!

Co-sleeping and sleep-feeding literally saved my sanity with our second baby. If DH said that he wanted the baby to go back in the cot every single time I'd probably bite him (and he's a wonderful, wonderful Dad and a wonderful husband.)

I really don't think you can overestimate what a massive toll it takes on a woman's system to be up three times a night for 9 months straight, nodding over a sleepy baby.

Well, I'll admit that I have sometimes found myself mid-change and discovered the wipes weren't where I thought I'd left them. So clearly I am a fake and a bully and would induce mental illness in my nearest and dearest.

This is a horrible, horrible situation and both of you are suffering. I think you should get some expert medical advice - and possibly legal advice, too. It may well be that you could be more supportive, but that doesn't mean it is OK to have things thrown at you (suppose they'd hit the baby?) or to have your child withheld from you.

i had pnd - maybe i still have a touch of this. my baby is now 2 and a very bad sleeper and we co sleep and my husband sleeps in another room. reading your post i totally recognise myself in you describing your wife.
i don't have anything much more to add than what has been said already but that i found having a baby ALL consuming for me. My dh is completely pushed to the background, our relationship is on hold really. infact i'm only considering renewing relations because i want another baby!

but my dh has been very supportive, by taking a completely passive backseat really and letting me do what i think is right for the baby (he is quite passive anyway) but i greatly appreciate this because i have found motherhood quite overwhelming and also i am very pro attatchment parenting, breastfed for 22 months as baby dairy intolerant too.
i have in many ways rendered my dh useless, which cannot be easy for him, (he is a bit useless though), infact it was only when i stopped breastfeeding that i really felt recovered from pnd - not that i am in anyway suggesting that you tell your wife to give up breastfeeding.

basically what i am saying is that i recognise how your wife is feeling, and i thank you for making me realise how my husband is feeling, but i would say that if you are in anyway asking your wife to choose what you want and what she wants to do with the baby she will choose the baby all the time.

i'm not sure what you should do really, but just to say for me it is beginning to pass and it takes a long time and i hope it works out ok.

non sleep is a nightmare, i haven't slept one night in two years and i work full time - my dh now does child care full time - which i hate him for.

its really tough but it will get better

I hope you have found some answers helpful, LostBoy. How is your extended family feeling about all this? Are both sets of grandparents around? They might be able to give you both some support at this difficult time.

I will leave the advice to the professionals (such as Relate - well done for seeking them out) as they are experts in their field.

It's obvious that you love both your wife and daughter very very much and I hope that this tricky period can be resolved soon.

Good luck.

Men don't have hormones?

Lostboy, you don't live in the flat any more. Why would the wipes be in the same place they always were? OK, sometimes you forget to have everything to hand, but when someone doesn't live in the flat, they should have checked where the supplies were and gathered them before attempting to change the baby. BTW, were they always on the floor with the changing mat? Did you keep the changing mat and all the supplies right there on the floor constantly? (This is the strangest arrangement I have ever heard of if so) Who changed the baby while you were at work? Did you rush home every time to change her?

Please just let me get this straight I dont have a problem with co sleeping if it works but now because of the co sleeping neither mother or baby are sleeping properly.
This is the main cause for my concern.
When the baby was sleeping in the cot it was me who would get out of bed to get the baby so my wife could feed her and then I would atake her back to her cot when my wife asked me to, or in to another room if she would not go back to sleep so that my wife could get the rest she needs.

I hope you can take some helpful stuff from this lostboy - and even the critical posts (like the wipes stuff) might help you to see things from your wife's perspective.

Try to look at it from her perspective - your wife is (I presume?) at home with the baby all day, every day, struggling with situations like not having the wipes to hand but not having anyone to help her.

We've all done it - and had those moments when you have a shitty baby and the wipes have run out - and there's nothing to be done but deal with it SOMEHOW. What do you do? Pick it up in your arms and get covered in poo? Leave it for a second to grab the wipes and watch it smear the bedroom carpet? Wrestle it back into the pooey nappy and try to re-do the tabs which are now covered in shit?

Maybe your wife just wanted you to feel that panicked exasperation for one second.

Of course she wasn't right to react the way she did - but that doesn't detract from her obvious anger.

Mathanxeity you truly have the rare talent to find the negative in everything and for that I congratulate you.
Why is canging a baby on the floor and having everything you would need to hand nearby so strange ?

I don't think you are being unreasonable with regard to the co-sleeping, but I DO think you are falling into the male trap of trying to FIX things. Try to understand where your DW is coming from. Why DOES she want to co-sleep? Maybe she feels (probably irrationally) that you are judging her and thinking you know best.

And the whole thing with the wipes fits right in with this IMO. It sounds like the kind of thing a person does when they are stressed, and resentful of someone who they may feel is handling the stress better than them. I think she probably thought you were blaming her for not having the wipes ready, therefore implying that she wasn't doing a good job, and that you could do it better.

I'm not saying that's what you DO think, but its easy to lose perspective when you are feeling crappy about things! TBH I've done 'wipe-throwing' type things after a hard day with a small baby!

It's also worth remembering that the father needs sleep too, and if he is the one fetching the baby, changing her and returning her to her cot after every feed, then he's getting broken nights too. LostBoy - are you working? Because if so, I can certainly appreciate that having your sleep broken 7 or 8 times is a killer.

It's clear that the baby was waking far fewer times when she slept in a cot, and it sounds as though everyone in the family, mum, dad and baby got a better nights sleep. The OP also says they discussed this and agreed it was working better.

Sounds like the wife is seriously mentally ill and the husband is on the receiving end of a lot of abuse - and the poor child is caught in the middle.

its not necessarily the co sleeping that is making your baby sleep less. they go through different phases, at 4-5 months my ds only woke once or twice a night, then at 10 months to 16 months he woke about 8-9 times a night , two months ago he slept pretty well, now for last month its been 6 times a night every night.

i just find it so much easier to co sleep because i can't be bothered to be awake enough for it to be a decision, certainly not a discussion with my dh. i knock on the wall at 5 am when i have had enough and my husband comes in like a slave and takes baby for an hour.

think yourself lucky you are not married to me!
can you ask your wife if you can move back in? it sounds as if you want it to work and maybe you do need to take a backseat a bit

It would be difficult for the father to do the bulk of the childcare when he's been kicked out of his own home wouldn't it.