Please help a very sad and confused new dad

[LostBoy]

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

If the OP didn't know that issues like co-sleeping and PND were going to take off like a wildfire, then he was surely completely ignorant about PND, and clearly had taken no account or even cogniscence of the wide range of views on the controversial subject of co-sleeping -- that are all over every parenting forum, every bookshop, every parenting website. Makes me wonder how he and his wife had come to their decision about where the baby would sleep.

MadameDefarge, it did, to be fair, take half an hour to get the first response.

It's not entirely unreasonable to assume after 20 minutes or so without a reply that it's safe to go out and check in later.

It's actually not until 7+ hours later that it started getting heated, presumably when it appeared on 'Most active'.

again, someguy, I take your point. But then again, I'm a bit sad, and when I start a thread I tend to check it quite often, and take time to respond to any responses...

Wow everytime I check in you guys seem to have started yet another argument amongst yourselves.
I really dont know what you want from me I just posted on here looking for advice which I have received and am very grateful but it has turned in to a bit of a soap opera. With wild accusations flying around and people claiming to be my mother in law (falsely may I add)
Im not really sure what to make of it all.
I would love to have the time to answer every single post individually but sadly I dont.

This is just odd, IMO.
Some of you have said the OP didn't seem 'real' enough because he didn't acknowledge replies, seem concerned enough & so on ... yet the infamous Mark Henley keeps rearing up as an example of the ill-motivated male. Mark Henley acknowledged replies and asked for more information, the behaviours you now criticise LostBoy/Dog for not doing.

On advice forums, I take the view that questions should be answered as responsibly as possible - for two reasons:
1] A person can be in need of support - and offered it - without having to be 'wrong' or 'right'. Whenever an uncared-for schizophrenic murders somebody, there is a chorus of shame about how s/he asked for help but was refused. I believe a request for help should be answered.
2] Another person, having similar problems to the OP, will find the thread in their search results. They will hope to find advice there, not implications that they are 'bad' and wrong.

Forums helped me through some of my darkest times, when I was incapable of 'reason'. I'm grateful to have received non-judgemental support, which literally did save my life more than once. On the forum linked above, I told Mark Henley I tried to support him personally, without making assumptions about his story. Imperfect though I am, that is what I aspire to do in advice forums.

Sorry for continuing with the thread hijack, LostDog, I thought you'd gone

"I really dont know what you want from me"

Hello LostDog.

I guess that, when you returned to the thread earlier, a lot of people would have appreciated some indication that the advice you literally begged them for was being heard, and hopefully would help you and your wife and daughter.

Obviously nobody would expect you to reply to every post. It just seemed a little odd to me personally, as an observer (I am not someone who posted in reply to your query), that you came back and took the time to post in a way that sidestepped and avoided all the sound advice, while focussing in on odd things like Dittany's namechange quip.

As you may have picked up if you've been reading later posts, I am not convinced you are genuine on the basis of this behaviour; but if I'm wrong I apologise, and hope you're seeking out some info on PND and finding it useful. Also hope your wife and daughter are ok.

No need to apologise Itsgraceagain,
I have been very busy at work the last two days and have only managed to get online quickly toady between meetings. Have just got in and am too tired to read all these new posts properly the screen is swimming. Many thanks for all your contributions

I don't understand this - why are men so disliked on here? I didn't understand the markhenley stuff either. Anyone could sign up and be the wife and say absolutely anything - woman automatically believed/man automatically lying bastard - why?

I read a thread on here today, the weird one about segregation, whilst everyone was saying this place is for parents and all are welcome, it would appear that isn't the case

To the OP - your wife is going through a terrible time, you too are going through a terrible time. Keep going with the relate, separately might be a good idea too, hopefully your wife will start to recover soon and be more amicable. This may not result in your relationship being saved but it will certainly help you move on and co parent your child successfully

Mathanxiety, I assume you refer to my earlier post when you said someone suggested legal advice with the caveat that this would not endear him to his wife, when I wrote the following:

"I think you need to continue with the Relate sessions and hope that your wife continues with her CBT too. It may be worth getting legal advice, but I worry that if you try to do anything too formally at this stage wrt to access, your wife will totally close down on you (even more than she has done already). Someone further up the thread suggested called on your ILs or friends of your wife's. I think that's an excellent suggestion."

I don't believe that paragraph is a worthy example of aggression towards women or being unsympathetic towards a new mother suffering from PND. At least I sincerly hope it was not as that was never my intention.

Given that a large majority of women on here are in relationships with men and or have sons, that is a remarkably silly thing to say.

Timewasters, trolls and narcissistic folk of either gender are very annoying, here, as in RL.

Been away for a few hours and this is still raging! I'd disagree with your last post MadameDefarge, I think men are really badly thought of on Mumsnet and this kind of thread just illustrates that. One poster (dittany, I think, sorry if I've got the wrong person) just sounds like she wants to make the point that she was right about Mark Henley (and I do remember that thread) and - ta-da - she's right again. And I really don't get the stuff about not being allowed to "have a go" if you've less than 100 posts to your name. All a bit divide and rule.

I love men

hardly raging, my dear.

Mumsnet is, on the whole a female forum, where men are welcome. There are many male posters here who are held in high regard and some affection.

But to expect to have the same societal sway that men are unconsciously accustomed to in RL does not wash.

We are different, we operate in the world differently, the world treats us differently.

These differences exist. some are to be celebrated. some are to be deplored.

Its all a matter a context, really.

Gosh, don't think anyone's called me dear since I was at school - very sweet. You must know a whole different species of men to the ones I do

Lostdog, I hope you manage to make some sense and pick out something useful of all this. I also hope you are feeling brighter, and have a "course of action" whether it is thanks to us, or not.

Do stick around. This thread is NOT mumsnet on its best, as it seems to have turned rather farcical.

well, perhaps our chats about the differences between men and women and how society is structured should take place elsewhere.

no by all means!!!I was not chastising, just adresseing the op!

I was actually referring to the whole thread, not your discussion, btw.

no probs 2010Q, understood!

ROFL at MN finding a way to channel dead mothers-in-law.

Just think of the effect on the AIBU section. Not only will there be a normal complement of my MIL-needs-to-die threads, but the spiritualists will be posting about their dead MILs being total cows ...

total dead cows quattro. Where is Damien Hurst when you need him?

So is LostDog definitely LostBoy? How can we confirm this?

yes yes yes. He said so, he named changed for Dittany

God this thread is depressing. I don't know why but I am finding it really upsetting. Not to be all about "me" but I'm preganant with my first child, I'm not the youngest new mum-to-be ever and am worried about the impact that a LO will have on my life and my husband's and our relationship, PND etc etc and the thought of turning into the kind of person that some of the posters on this thread seem to be (discounting my husbands opinion or role in our child's life etc etc) is just really frightening me. And maybe I'm hormonal but since my DH is 1000's of miles from home, I find the prospect of him getting reception like this if he tried to reach out to anyone desperately worrying.

I think that the dig at ItsGraceAgain for not having had children or PND was utterly unjustified - perhaps a little unbiased perspective could be of use to some on here.

I remember the Mark Henley thread - I don't and didn't know how it ended, whether he was for real or a troll or whether the person making allegations against him was real or a troll. I didn't think he was a troll when I read it but then I do tend to take posts at face value. The thing that confuses me most about this thread is the willingness of some posters to "read between the lines", try to see the wife's POV and not take the poster at face value. I have quite often read posts by women on MN and when other people have raised such questions or doubts the response has inevitably been that you have to respond to the posts at face value, can't make assumptions etc etc etc. I know this is not a MN rule etc but there clearly is a very different set of standards applied to male posters versus female posters on MN. I also find the eagerness to yell troll at any poster who steps away from MN for half an hour, part of the working day or a weekend bizarre. Some of us do have lives and responsibilities you know!

Finally, I acknowledge that I also mentioned legal advice in an early post. For the uninformed taking legal advice is a vastly different proposition and state of affairs to taking legal action. Often taking legal advice and knowing that you may have legal recourse should you need it can calm things down and set your mind at rest on certain issues allowing you to focus on more important or easily remedied matters.