Please help a very sad and confused new dad

[LostBoy]

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

'He didn't try to turn it into a battle, he tried to do the right thing. It is a bad idea to let babies co-sleep with you for too long isn't it? '

Thing is, what is the right thing? Who decides what is the 'right thing'? Who says co-sleeping is a bad idea?

Acting out of 'concern' can come across to a woman with PND as 'acting out of a desire to have the last word', an indication that she isn't going to have a say in how the sleeping arrangements will be decided.

The OP has revealed an inability to understand the need for flexibility here. Decisions that they made together appear to him to have been written in stone. It seems to come as a very unwelcome surprise to him that his wife might have changed her mind, and I don't think he dealt with this changing situation very well. Flexibility is a key attitude when dealing with new parenthood. The OP comes across as rather rigid, fond of facts, and unable to see beyond 'what's best' on paper to what might work for his wife and himself and the baby. There's a tunnel vision thing going on here in the way he approaches fatherhood and his relationship.

He says 'spiteful' and 'nasty', but he knows his wife has PND. How come he can't understand where the spite and nastiness are coming from? PND affects how someone feels about others just as much as how she feels about herself (he said himself that he tried to help her feel better about herself) -- why doesn't he understand it's not just her feelings about herself that are involved here?

Why would someone do what seems to be absolutely no research on a very serious mental health problem when his wife has been diagnosed with it and is receiving therapy, and instead post about how he is feeling angry and hurt, how he is sleeping with friends, how he wants his family back, how he was so concerned about everyone's welfare that he overruled his wife on something baby-related that clearly meant a huge amount to her? He seems really dense.

Yup Dittany, I clearly have some sort of agenda. In fact I'm part of a global conspiracy.

Dear oh dear, love.

God, this makes me feel really uncomfortable and I don't think it shows MN in its best light. It's almost as if some posters will pick on absolutely the tiniest detail which can be twisted to conjure up this mean, bullying man that many of you seem to have decided he is. Jeeez, I must be a terrible person and DH too cos I'd lose count of the amount of times we forgot the baby wipes when changing nappies, and many other, equally heinous, crimes. Some MNers sound like they think the best outcome would be for Lost Boy/Dog to turn out to be a horrible husband, just so they could say, "told you so." What if he's a typical, logical man who thinks to himself, "co-sleeping seems to equal less sleep. Surely my wife would like more sleep, so I'll try and do what I think will enable her to get more sleep." Nothing more sinister than that? It's a sad state of affairs when any man posting on here asking for advice is straight away a troll or stalker.

Totally agree Juicy, the poster (Ditanny?) who seemed to think there was somethning sinister about the guy FORGETTING TO HAVE BABY WIPES TO HAND! just seem really...anti-man.

It's the logical approach, and the thinking things, without reference to the wife's clear wishes (that seemingly had very little to do with getting a good night's sleep, for reasons of her own) that have landed this man on his friend's couch instead of in his own bed. It's not sinister, it's stupid. His priority here seems to have been sleep. Hers was something else.

It's shooting himself in the foot to continue to take an approach that doesn't take into account the wishes and feelings and goals of his wife. Doing things logically and explaining patiently to her why he was right has backfired spectacularly, non?

If he was really logical, btw, why not get a bigger bed that the three of them could have fit into comfortably? What price happiness?

FioFio, that's really sad. I guess your DH thought you would just get over it , he wasn't particularly affected, and all would be well in time. (Hope you're feeling better)

But in this case, the OP was feeling hurt, bewildered and sad, and has actually been chucked out of his flat -- I can't understand why he couldn't make the connections.

With both my DCs, my priority was to sleep, never mind DH!! I guess LostDog isn't going to come back now anyway - I certainly wouldn't if I'd got this response looking for some help. Maybe once I'm a MN veteran I can look forward to eyeing all men with suspicion from the off

Yikes!

Mathanxiety, of course co-sleeping is a bad idea! I accept that sometimes it is necessary and inevitable but I think it is sensible to try and stop it before it becomes a habit

mathanx - post natal depression (let alone your common or garden variety of depression) is wildly misunderstood at the best of times.

It's hard for most people to understand the intricacies of it, how it affects emotions, reactions, thoughts, feelings. It is particularly hard for a person living with someone who is depressed because they are the ones who are usually on the receiving end of the emotions/reactions. It's hard not to take it personally.

It's hard to see that the other person can't help it.

It's an invisible disability, to all intents and purposes.

I used to be a nanny. I worked for 2 mums with PND. Although they were both lovely people, they were really difficult to live with due to the depression. I felt sorry for their husbands - who were also lovely, but couldn't do right for doing wrong: the mums picked at them non-stop. It was painful to watch.

The men were unbelievably patient - but the stress level at home was their reason for getting a nanny. Apparently I did help, so life before they called someone in must have been a hellish nightmare! It's heartening that some of you are aware of how badly your PND affected you & everyone around you. Those who haven't lived with it 24/7 should keep their opinions to themselves. IMHO.

FioFio, hope you're keeping warm! Get well soon. Virtual (home-made) chicken soup on the way

Please try and have a little compassion - if you've spent the last 9 months not getting much sleep - and you're now sleeping on what's probably a makeshift bed - the sleep deprivation on its own can get in the way of logic.

If this had been a woman posting that her husband had bi-polar, or any mental health condition for that matter, that is equally challenging as PND - and the poster was expressing hurt at being told that her H didn't love her any more, I think you would be reacting very differently.

You wouldn't be picking her up on her posting name, or the language she used, or that she had forgotten to get the wipes first. You wouldn't be repeatedly asking her what RL support her H had. I bet you'd be critising the H though, along the lines of "being depressed is no excuse for being cruel" - and this would be amongst the more polite references to the H.

This couple are having a horrible time right now - I cannot see that there is "fault" on either side. Gently suggesting to the OP that he finds out more facts about PND should be combined with offering him support during this difficult time. He's got feelings too, which are just as legitimate as his wife's. I feel sorry for both of them.

Agreed whenwill - there is a thread atm about a woman who is at her wits end with her DH who is depressed. There have been response along the lines of his 'playing the depression card' . Depression is a terrible thing and it takes its toll on the everyone around. It isn't fussy about the sex of the sufferer and PND isn't any more or less awful than any other kind.

Yes.

If I thought you actually understood sympathy dittany, I'd suggest you save it for someone who genuinely needs it, like LostBoy/Dog.

WWIFN - your post has perfectly summed up my feelings about this thread.

math - what is the right approach then? If it isn't a 'logical' response? I don't honestly think there is a right response. Having suffered from PND and various bouts of depression and anxiety, I can't tell you what I wanted DH to do - apart from cuddle me one minute and then fuck off out of my face the next!