Please help a very sad and confused new dad

[LostBoy]

Hello all
I am writing this post out of shher desperation in the hope that someone will be able to offer me some helpful advice.
I have been with my wife for 8 years and we have had what i would consider a normal healthy loving relationship, Of course we have had ups and downs and rows and disagreements but no more so than any other couple I know.
We have recently become parents (9 months ago) to a beautiful baby girl and things at first were fine we were a very happy little family and were getting along really great working as a team learning how to be a family.
Our daughter had slept in her cot from the day we come home from the hospital and would wake on average 3 times a night for feeds.
we both shared all responsibilites and were supporting one another really well and really enjoying being parents.
However when the baby was around 6 months old she got a bad cold and was very poorly and upset and would not sleep without being cuddled so we had her in bed with us which was fine and we both discussed that we would not let her get used to this and as soon as she was better she would go back to her cot as our bed is not big enough for all three of us and both me and my wife were not sleeping as well as a result.
However when the baby was well agian my wife refused to put her back in to her cot and insisted the baby sleep in with us saying that the baby would no longer sleep in the cot which was untrue as I had been putting her down to sleep in the cot but my wife was then getting her out of the cot and bringing her in to bed with us.
I tried to explain to her that I thought this was not a good thing to be doing as it was a big step backwards for the baby and none of us were sleeping as well anymore.
She accused me of not wanting the baby in our bed so because I wanted sex which was totally not the case as I love my wife very much and would like nothing more than to be able to make love to her but she has told me that she dosent feel ready too and that is fine with me and I would never ever try to pressure her in to something she did not want and I told her this and that I was more than happy to wait as long as she needed.
ut then she started to accuse me of only doing stuff for her helping her and being nice to her so that she would have sex with me, she also began to accuse me of thinking things and would make her mind up what my intentions were and what i was going to say before I had had a chance to say anything choosing always to see the bad side of whatever I said or twst my words and actions in to something really ugly,
I love my wife with all my heart and it is deeply upsetting for me to hear the spiteful and nasty stuff she says about me and accuses me of.
It got so bad thet she would not let me even hug kiss or touch her and whenever I showed any sign of affection towards her she would get angry,
She is seeing a CBT councellor for post natal depression and we have been going to relate together but she is unwilling to try to make it work and it has now come to the stage where she is saying she dosent love me and has made me move out of our flat and I an now staying with friends.
I have continued to tell her I love her and that I will always be there for her and tried to make her feel better about herself but all i get in return is anger and spitefull comments.
She is almost unrecognosible as the woman I Love and behaves so completely irratonally and unreasonably but refuses to see this and blames me for everything and gets angry over nothing and will use anything to try to start a fight with me. I am at a total loss as to what to do now.
I love my wife so much and she has given me the most amazing thing in the world all I want is to be able to love them both care for them be there and be a family. But she has got so hostile and aggressive towards me now that I am scared for her and cannot stand to be around her and see her this way.
Our daughter is upset that I am not around and although I try to be ther as much as I can my wife is making it impossible for me to vist and refuses to let me be alone with the baby.
please please help me I have never felt so sad and desperate.

and if you believe that then that way madness lies

You know you lot having a go at dittany - she may have ideas that you heartily disagree with, and wish to label as "man-hating" or whatever the current DM term is, but she is always honest, there is a point to her posts, they are reasoned and generally calm..

So back off. And itsgrace, I suggest as someone is neither a parent nor someone who has had PND you should keep your opinions to yourself.

And as a professional word person, that post screams inauthenticity to me. Maths dissected is most efficiently.

And actually all you johnny come latelys it wasn't until the OP was flipping nasty to one nice poster that the mood changed.

But then I guess you'd actually have to read the thread to know that....

because you know there is a school of thought that if you behave like a cunt to someone trying to help you on an anonymous forum, then what are you like to your nearest and dearest?

It informs the OP.

Yep, Dittany has strong views- so do the majority of other people on this forum.

A healthy debate is good but trying to bring her down is a pointless? Will she change her views - will you change yours - probably not.

I'm wondering where the OP has gone - was nonna1 the real nonna of his kid and was that his name and if so I think there's defo something else going on herel.

Lostdog where are you - are you OK, your wife OK, your lo OK???????

Nonna - you OK?

"And actually all you johnny come latelys it wasn't until the OP was flipping nasty to one nice poster that the mood changed."

actually I think this was the first nasty post:

"I will bet my last fiver that the DW is a regular and LostBoy knows it.

Smacks to me of overbearing bully trying to score points and get people to agree with him that his wife is a cold bitch. "

after the OP, but before his first reply.

OMG @ this thread! It's taken me an hour to read it and i still can't decide if its real.

However I have made a mental note of several MNetters to never meet up with and one who i am convinced is SWMNBN.

lostdog boy whatever - IF this is real just give your wife some space for awee while - from your posts alone (and no one elses) it appears as if you are smothering her some what by having a view of a "perfect life" that she clearly is struggling to share at this moment in time.

I have been on MN since 2005 (as mumofmonsters) and have NEVER seen a thread this nasty before.

SO what if this isn't real? This situation may be real to someone reading it.

You make me ashamed to be a MNer right now

Please you lot, don't fight amongst yourselves -- I just cannot believe it is worth it for this OP.

I just really, really don't believe he was genuine at all, and he seems to be gone now anyway. Don't know whether I think he was a pure troll, or an actual dad with a deliberately disingenuously-presented story. But either way ... I don't know, all his posts just sound made-up to me.

Nothing about the sort of person his wife is, no drawing upon what the fundamentals of their relationship after 8 years were before her PND ... nothing really convincing about his feelings re their daughter either. Everyone in his story sounds like a cardboard figure on his stage. And he himself has deliberately ignored all the really, really insightful posts like mathanxiety's and other similar posters', instead only replying in general and/or inconsequential terms -- not behaving at all like someone who is as desperate for insights and help as he first claimed. And then disappearing while the thread rolls on into people attacking each other.

It just feels really wrong, like the work of someone with an agenda, whatever on earth it may be.

I know this post isn't contributing much and I'm sorry, not really sure why I am posting except to say that it suxxxxx big time and I'm hating the way it seems to be making people fall out.

Yup, I'm with SomeGuy, it's a right chinstroking thread.

KFP, of course you're right that the situation may be real to others even if OP is not genuine ... and I guess that does give it some value for that reason alone.

But it's a thread full of such a lot of nastiness (as you say yourself) that I kind of hope anyone really struggling with this situation finds another, slightly less scary thread to read first.

(or that they are at least able to read selectively and stick to the useful posts)

fair play, someguy.

A good few posts before the one you mentioned, SomeGuy, a poster had suggested the OP get legal advice (with the caveat that this would probably not endear him to his wife). There has been a wide reaction to the OP, as he has acknowledged himself in his later posts. I for one sincerely hope he will avoid legal action. This would be a horrible thing for a woman suffering from PND to deal with.

As has been mentioned, there have been instances of Hs coming on MN and posting about their wives in a manner that suggested building a case or scoring points or harassment. There has been a discussion on another (long) MN thread that I am familiar with of an exH actually making a threat to defame the exW on an Irish forum; the threat came in the course of an ongoing attempt by the wife to separate from the exH and establish a visitation schedule. It's not unheard-of.

Is there not a possibility in that case, that any man who comes here to post about marital difficulties is bound to be disbeleived and treated with suspicion and downright hostility? Which is a shame. Much of the perhaps defensive language the OP used is echoed in OPs by aggreived women without their being called to account for it. This of course begs the question whether Mumnset really is just for women, but I thought it wasn't supposed to be.

what I find interesting is the difference in the posting styles of some men and women. Bear with my generalisations.

Women who post about relationship difficulties often spend a lot of the time excusing their OH, blaming themselves, looking for where they could have done things differently.

Some men post from the position of absolute certainty they are in the right, and struggle with the idea they could do things differently, or could be culpable in the relationship issues.

So they demand different responses. When, as in this OPs case, there is no feedback at all on the helpful posts or sign that they get there might be other issues than the ones they have personally identified, it is frustrating and begs the question do they even care?

Because threads are two ways. We take time to post, OP should take time to respond.

You don't just put 50p in the slot and get all your answers then walk away.

Orm, I hope not; and fwiw, I'm not saying he should have been called out straight away or that nobody should have posted the actual advice that they did. I deliberately didn't post on the thread for ages myself because I knew I couldn't really justify my skepticism with anything concrete, & figured he deserved the benefit of the doubt from those willing to take the time and able to relate to his post.

I just think after a certain point it did get to the point where all of that was overridden by how unpleasant it was all getting, and the fact that he apparently came back and seemed to be playing games a bit was what tipped the balance for me, I guess. So much good advice and it seemed to be being ignored, meanwhile people were getting upset w each other ... aargh

I've not seen/heard of active mumsnet posters being 'got at', it seems a poor strategy to me: 'how can I get at my wife? Oh I know, I'll post on a forum full of her friends, I'll be sure to get loads of support there, and people will definitely take the word of a new poster over hers'. If the wife is on here, all she needs to do is (possibly namechanging), login, say that he's a lying abusive bastard, list some of his bad behaviour, and that would be game over for him.

Anyway, this thread started off with 'poor man' replies, but before the OP's first reply the mood had already changed. The posts following 'he's getting back at his wife' to his first reply are in the main against him.

Once you are on the defensive, it's probably best to shut up, these things rarely improve.....

Men have themselves to blame to some extent, Orm, for the suspicion with which some of them are greeted. Maybe there's also a suspicion at work that men, who are generally assumed to be the fixing and logical types who would need a barbeque fork in the bum to get them to ask for simple help like directions when they're lost, don't tend to ask for help or insight into their marital woes.

A lot of female OPs have been well and truly flamed, however -- I think it cuts both ways.

exactly, Madame. Or at least, I guess if you're just posting a breezy question about washing powder you can be forgiven for wandering off/forgetting; but not when you can see that people are getting really passionate about your posts and that it's clearly an emotive, highly personal topic for lots of those contributing.

someguy, I have personally seen one, markhenley who posted about how his wife had left him and had gone to a refuge, and he was bemused, and some MNetters were trying to help him find ways of tracking her down at the refuge...outrageous. His OP taken at total face value and her safety and the safety of her children being actively compromised by Mnetters.

It transpired he had got a shotgun when she said she was leaving and the police had to escort her to safety.

So yes, it does happen.

And men who are pathologically controlling ( or women for that matter) will try and colonise all areas of their partners lives, including internet fora.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I've been known to write something online, and it ends up taking longer than expected, so you end up posting and running, because you have to go out somewhere, go to bed, cook the dinner, whatever it is.

I don't know that a new poster can be expected to know that he needs to be at his PC for the next few hours to avoid being accused of trolling or whatever. On some forums you wouldn't get any responses within 9 hours.

well, you get wander off, or run for hills, or say this is freaking me out....I doubt you would exchange breezy chitchat with a nod and a wink after the carnage created...unless you enjoyed the carnage, that is.

The fact is, even when we disagree with each other, Most Mnetters really really do care. And take time to respond, and get passionate, feisty and sometimes very very cross.

And OPs should respect that a bit.

well yes someguy, but I bet it wasn't after posting begging for help...